MO MO - Dennis Spriggs, 47, LaBelle, 15 July 1992

[lucky2]

There was very little art left... we found a receipt where he had one painting repaired, so I imagine it must have been worth some money. Everything that was in the kitchen when he left is still there... if the FBI wants to test anything, they should request it before we throw it all in a dumpster. The house was like a museum of the day he left.

ok- that seems like it could be important that nothing has changed in the kitchen? I am going to email someone tomorrow about that.

Also, the art- Jeanne was saying that it was HER artwork, things she had painted herself and signed, that he went through and scribbled her signature out and put his on it. I doubt it was anything valuable, I just wondered if it was true or not. (no real reason, just curious about the truth.)

You are right, some things we will never understand.

 

[LandAuxvasse]

ok- that seems like it could be important that nothing has changed in the kitchen? I am going to email someone tomorrow about that.

Also, the art- Jeanne was saying that it was HER artwork, things she had painted herself and signed, that he went through and scribbled her signature out and put his on it. I doubt it was anything valuable, I just wondered if it was true or not. (no real reason, just curious about the truth.)

You are right, some things we will never understand.

I think Clint has told you the things we've found that belong to your family and the notes that Jeanne left Roy. And you also know that he went on a burning rampage and we have no clue what he burnt. He also went on a buying spree in 1998 and a lot of the things we've found were from that year. I don't know if he replaced spices and stuff in the pantry, but all that is still in the house. The thought of the FBI testing anything did not occur to me until I wrote it here on the forum. Dumb, right?

I'm gonna play armchair psychologist for a second because I've learned a little about sociopaths (the Casey Anthony case especially) and I can tell you that their lies are often based on a little truth. For instance, Clint said there was a plumbing leak in the house, but obviously it was not Roy leaving the water running and water did not run down the stairs and out the doors. The house is still standing and in pretty good condition considering it had not been lived in for 12 years. I think they lie like that so they can believe themselves. I also don't really think they lie to hurt anyone because no one else is important enough to them. They lie to save themselves only (IMO).

You are a victim and you've done all the right things to protect yourself and your family from her. You are not to blame for the things she's done and there is NOTHING you could have ever done to help her. Roy could not either. To me, you and he must have been a little alike to have recognized that something was wrong and try to distance yourselves from the situation.

 

[lucky2]

I think they lie like that so they can believe themselves.

WOW, I never even thought of that. What an interesting idea. I heard in a class in college, (so.. um a long time ago lol) that if a person is doing something that they don't believe in, they either need to change their beliefs, or change their actions, or they will "go crazy" (this is how the instructor put it). I think it would be pretty hard to change your belief system to the point that poisoning people is ok, and if you can't let the action go, then perhaps telling yourself some nice stories about it is the only way to cope mentally. Internal congruency, I think that is the way it was put. Clint did tell me sooo many of the things that had happened in their actual form, but there were still many things I didn't ask him. (none of them important, like the piece of art.) I just have things pop up here or there that I think- hmmm I never asked him this or that, but in reality, I should just not even think about it anymore I guess. Truth gives me closure for some reason.

Regarding the Casey Anthony comment, I made a remark a few pages back that she fascinates me too! When I see her, or watch her talk, I will freeze the screen and watch her again and again because she is the closest person to someone like my mother that I have ever seen. It's amazing. In fact, she looks remarkably like my sister Denise. (who is nothing like Casey btw). It really does help to see a story out there that we can relate to somehow. I hate to say that someone like her has helped me understand things in my own family more, but she really has.

When do you go to Ottumwa next? Maybe you could check the pantry but not touch anything? I know the salt shakers were all gone once I saw them at my mother's house in Utah- she put them away somewhere once I discovered them. The fact that she kept entering the house makes me wonder if she could've removed anything, but perhaps some remnants of something on the shelves? It's a long shot, but worth a try.

I think Roy was a lot smarter than I'll ever be. He figured this out after knowing her for only 3 years!!

 

[LandAuxvasse]

Clint has asked that I pass on this message

You can quote me if you'd like actually, I insist you quote me:
There is no artwork of any kind in Roy's house with "Roy D. Forgy" (or any variation thereof) on it. Period. Not even a "From the Roy D. Forgy Collection" stamped on the back. Jeanne (maiden name) left a tablet with a few drawings: untouched. Various journals, notebooks, etc belonging to her kids: untouched as far as I can tell (I'm reluctant to peruse since they're personal). Photo albums of Jeanne's family: untouched. No pentagrams, demons, gargoyles, or (oddly enough) nekked chicks drawn or painted on any surface, flat or otherwise. Not even in crayon. There *were* crayons there but they were for visiting children, he hadn't used them to sign checks, etc. No evidence of insanity whatsoever. From the looks of the kitchen he was making an attempt to find or clean out whatever crime evidence she'd left behind. Whether it was to nail her or "cure" himself is anyone's guess. The latter makes me sick. And pissed off in ways only another Forgy can understand. But like he told me in the fall of '98, the same day he swore he'd been poisoned: "'vengeance is mine', so sayeth the Lord." If someone had poisoned me there would be yellow police tape around 4 city blocks for a month while scores of searchers tried to find all the body parts. But hey, I'm a Kinder, Gentler Man™ now. Vengeance Ain't Mine, in other words.

Roy was put under siege. We all "know" in our hearts by whom. Then the state and legal system took over his sovereignty, and his life as he'd always known it was over. They never could figure out what was "wrong" with him. He never complained about it. Whenever I asked if they were treating him well, he always gave a surprised "oh yeah!", as if there were no other possibilities. If they hadn't fed him he would've said so. If they'd sexually abused him he would've bragged. He insisted on onions on his burger. I do too. He never drooled down the front of himself like crazy people do. I do often. He molded my brother and I in ways we never understood then, but we're both catching on now. Roy wasn't a hard act to follow, he was an *impossible* act to follow. Roy lived like a man, and died like one too. And that picture I just painted of him was so I could drive this point home: in all the years I knew him, he told me only one time that someone was out to get him. And that's how I know it's true. That might not convince you, Dear Readers, but if you only knew him ... All the other evidence is just more proof.

 

[lucky2]

Clint has asked that I pass on this message

You can quote me if you'd like actually, I insist you quote me:
There is no artwork of any kind in Roy's house with "Roy D. Forgy" (or any variation thereof) on it. Period. Not even a "From the Roy D. Forgy Collection" stamped on the back. Jeanne (maiden name) left a tablet with a few drawings: untouched. Various journals, notebooks, etc belonging to her kids: untouched as far as I can tell (I'm reluctant to peruse since they're personal). Photo albums of Jeanne's family: untouched. No pentagrams, demons, gargoyles, or (oddly enough) nekked chicks drawn or painted on any surface, flat or otherwise. Not even in crayon. There *were* crayons there but they were for visiting children, he hadn't used them to sign checks, etc. No evidence of insanity whatsoever. From the looks of the kitchen he was making an attempt to find or clean out whatever crime evidence she'd left behind. Whether it was to nail her or "cure" himself is anyone's guess. The latter makes me sick. And pissed off in ways only another Forgy can understand. But like he told me in the fall of '98, the same day he swore he'd been poisoned: "'vengeance is mine', so sayeth the Lord." If someone had poisoned me there would be yellow police tape around 4 city blocks for a month while scores of searchers tried to find all the body parts. But hey, I'm a Kinder, Gentler Man™ now. Vengeance Ain't Mine, in other words.

Roy was put under siege. We all "know" in our hearts by whom. Then the state and legal system took over his sovereignty, and his life as he'd always known it was over. They never could figure out what was "wrong" with him. He never complained about it. Whenever I asked if they were treating him well, he always gave a surprised "oh yeah!", as if there were no other possibilities. If they hadn't fed him he would've said so. If they'd sexually abused him he would've bragged. He insisted on onions on his burger. I do too. He never drooled down the front of himself like crazy people do. I do often. He molded my brother and I in ways we never understood then, but we're both catching on now. Roy wasn't a hard act to follow, he was an *impossible* act to follow. Roy lived like a man, and died like one too. And that picture I just painted of him was so I could drive this point home: in all the years I knew him, he told me only one time that someone was out to get him. And that's how I know it's true. That might not convince you, Dear Readers, but if you only knew him ... All the other evidence is just more proof.

You insisted that this be quoted, and I agree...it needs to be quoted. I have read this a couple of times today, and I have no words. It brought me to tears. No one deserves what he went through. I have some other comments but this is the only one I can post for tonight. Roy is heavy on my mind and what a true man he was to live through what he did, and with such dignity for the remainder of his life.

 

[Belinda]

R.I.P. Roy. You have earned it.

 

[cforgy]

The main thing about the water in the house, is why is it important to embelish a story from a tree branch hitting the roof, to total destruction and anhillation from toilet water with Roy as the cause.

They are two separate issues. One, the roof was damaged and water was leaking. That was after he was in "assisted care living" and it was repaired. The other time was plumbing failure while he was still living in the house. It was repaired too. It caused some damage but nothing major. It didn't run down the stairs, out the windows, out into the street, or any other such nonsense. And no ark was involved. Although I'm sure he could plug a toilet with the best of us, that wasn't the cause either. Pipes - older ones like you'd find in an older house - were replaced.

 

[cforgy]

Kind of like, what happens in Ottumwa...........stays in Ottumwa.

Ottumwa at one time was the Unsolved Murder Capital Of The Known Universe. Creepy eh?

 

[lucky2]

Clint has asked that I pass on this message

Jeanne (maiden name) left a tablet with a few drawings: untouched. Various journals, notebooks, etc belonging to her kids: untouched as far as I can tell (I'm reluctant to peruse since they're personal). Photo albums of Jeanne's family: untouched..

I feel silly saying something like this bothers me after thinking about all that Roy went through. It seems silly to say that it bothers me that she told us that he burned all of our awards, photos, journals, etc. in a fire and we had nothing left, when in reality it was all just sitting there in the house. Like I mentioned before, I knew that my dad's journal mysteriously reappeared years later after she said it had been burned. I knew you had a watch of my fathers and a couple of letters, but I didn't know about this other stuff. It just seems mean to make up that all of our family memories were gone.

I remember her saying that she would stand by Roy no matter what, and was going to fight the divorce. Later she said that he'd done her a favor by filing for divorce because the state was going to take everything, and there would be nothing left. Then she never seemed to care anymore, and in fact truly hid out in Utah from him, saying to never tell anyone from out there where she was or Roy could come find her and kill her. The whole thing hurts my soul.

If there is ever justice in this case, it really is because of Roy figuring this out in the first place and making me aware of the situation on some level. He truly saved my life, because if I did not have the situation with Roy to reflect upon, I would've just thought I was going handicapped, and gone along with the plan she was telling everyone behind my back, that I was going to die. I owe him a lot.

 

[cforgy]

I don't know why, but for some reason I feel and urgency to do this and get it done.

If you look at all this from beginning to end you'll know why you feel an urgency. I can't remember if I ever met you, but I remember Juanita. I met her at Roy's 50th birthday party. She was pretty ornery so she became a favorite of mine instantly. We'll be in Ottumwa occasionally over the next few weeks. My wife and I would love to meet you in person and hear anything you'd like to say. We'll buy you a Canteen to sweeten the deal

 

[cforgy]

If there is ever justice in this case, it really is because of Roy figuring this out in the first place and making me aware of the situation on some level. He truly saved my life, because if I did not have the situation with Roy to reflect upon, I would've just thought I was going handicapped, and gone along with the plan she was telling everyone behind my back, that I was going to die. I owe him a lot.

Then tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. That's all he'd ask for anyway.

 

[LandAuxvasse]

The whole thing hurts my soul.

Mine too! I hurt for you too. I also admire your strength for doing what you believe is right. You could have worked through all this without getting involved yourself, but you reached out to the other families and offered support in many different ways, and exposed yourself publicly here on WS, and you haven't shied away from anything, and for that you should be proud of yourself. I realize it's small consolation, but we appreciate you and what you've done!!

 

[cforgy]

Mine too! I hurt for you too. I also admire your strength for doing what you believe is right. You could have worked through all this without getting involved yourself, but you reached out to the other families and offered support in many different ways, and exposed yourself publicly here on WS, and you haven't shied away from anything, and for that you should be proud of yourself. I realize it's small consolation, but we appreciate you and what you've done!!

I'll 2nd that. I can't put myself in your shoes no matter what. You've "manned up", as they say, above and beyond the call of duty. Fight the Good Fight and pray that a balance comes back into all our lives. No matter what the truth really is we're all gonna hurt through this until and beyond the end. Hang in there ...

 

[cofinley]

Hello C.Forgy! Lucky2 just emailed me that you were wanting to get ahold of me. I have sent you an email with my personal info for contact. If for some reason you don't recieve it, you can get it from Janette.

 

[cforgy]

Got it, thanks!

 

[cofinley]

You are very welcome.

 

[lucky2]

I don't know what to say when you thank me for my help- because I feel like I am betraying my mother to even discuss this, but I feel like I am betraying those that are no longer here if I don't! I feel like I could have done more sooner, and many of us would have less pain to reflect on. I originally sought out help from a Private Investigator to prove that I was wrong, that I was losing my mind. The fact that Roy was right, my grandfather was right, and my feelings were right, were not the answers I was looking for. The fact that my mother convinced my siblings that I was "out to get her" and had gone crazy, and their encouragements to get counseling, made me decide to work really really hard to get to the bottom of this so that some day I could either approach them and beg for their forgiveness, or that they could welcome me back with open arms and we could all help my mother since we found out the truth. What a fantasy ending to this story either way. I really never pictured that the deeper I searched, the deeper the pit was to the point that there was no bottom. I never pictured that this was the beginning of the end of any type of a relationship with any of them no matter what I found out. I never imagined that I was that worthless to all of them. I did start counseling over a year ago, and I go faithfully pretty much every week. She said to picture that all of my loved ones were on a big ship, and that a huge explosion went off and they all died. She said that is what essentially happened to me- my personal halocaust. I always thought I was such a strong person, but I don't anymore. I invited my sister to go to counseling and that I would talk to the counselor after she did if she wanted to renew our relationship. She said that she isn't the one that needs counseling, I am. She also said at Christmas in an e-mail that I probably dreamed all of this up and none of it ever happened.

I mention some of the above because my husband asked me why I didn't immediately write to you and say, "hey- you found all of our family albums and journals? send them to me! please!!!" I told him that I don't have a family anymore, and the last thing I want to do is see all of their pictures and remember what all just happened, and how little I mean to any of them. So- my request to cforgy and landauxvassie- could you please send those items to my brother Will, including the watch, and tell him what you found? I think he would really appreciate it. And, if they start needing any help, support, etc. through all of this if any true awareness starts coming to them, would you please be kind to them and help them through the hell that I just walked through if they are brave enough to face it? I know I won't have the strength for them after what I just went through.

I think you guys have no idea how much you helped me, including the websleuthers, to get to the bottom of the truth. I will never fully grasp it, and it has been a crippling journey, but I would do it again if I thought it would save our father's lives or future kids. I would do it again if I thought I could bring my mother back! I used to live in this little fantasy world that I could save her "soul" somehow if I went back and paid everyone back the money she stole, or the ills she did to people by apologizing and helping. That was the co-dependent side of me, and I realize that this is a journey that only she can do if she ever decides to make amends. Amends are not even possible on some fronts at this point. Anyway, I am sorry to sound so "down" on mother's day, I do my best to remind myself that this is about ME being a mom now, and celebrate that instead of remembering my own mother, but I am not an expert at that yet.

I know that the Fulfords need to come up with a time-line of events from clear back to my father all the way to current. It has to include financial and illnesses/deaths. If anyone would like to help them, that would take a lot of burden off everyone. I am sure they would appreciate it. I wish we could all find peace in this- I am so sorry any of us are dealing with these things! Happy mother's day to you mom's out there, and I am here for you if you need anything.

 

[LandAuxvasse]

I know that the Fulfords need to come up with a time-line of events from clear back to my father all the way to current. It has to include financial and illnesses/deaths. If anyone would like to help them, that would take a lot of burden off everyone. I am sure they would appreciate it. I wish we could all find peace in this- I am so sorry any of us are dealing with these things! Happy mother's day to you mom's out there, and I am here for you if you need anything.

I believe we have the taxes for the years she was married to Roy and any other years *may* (????) be obtainable through the FOIA since they're needed for a civil case, but the lawyers may need to ask for them. I will try to post any information we find along the way here and we'll try to decide if there's any evidentiary value?

 

[lucky2]

That would help a lot, including divorce documents filed, etc. I really only know first hand what happened with my father, parts of roy, parts of bruce, parts of my uncle, all about myself and daughter, parts of sammy, and will stop with people at this point but there are more. it is way too much for me to dig through all of this psychologically, its overwhelming! If people took the sections where they were the most involved, or that related to their loved ones, it would ease the burden. Thank you soooo much.

 

[lucky2]

For anyone who cared about my father, Dennis Spriggs, his father, Harold Spriggs is not doing well. The doctor called me today and he has been given a few days to a few weeks remaining depending on his tumor. So, I am heading to Missouri. The sad thing is that everyone has abandoned him the past 6 years or so. I am the only one who ever visits him, or sends him anything, and I will be the only one at his graveside (after I arrange it!). I have notified family, and I am hoping that anyone will see him, but at the least, that they will send him a card or something. If anyone out there wants information about him let me know- because I think his life was worth remembering. My dad would have wanted that too.