Joanie, There are cases of people who intentionally poison others just for the thrill of control. Perhaps this person started out doing it for the money and then just like the control? I can't think of the names of these kinds of people, but they often work in the medical field.
MO MO - Dennis Spriggs, 47, LaBelle, 15 July 1992
- Thread starter SuziQ
- Start date
New Posts
-
Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3
- Latest: FlowersInBloom
I can only come down to munchausen by proxy- but you are completely right... other than the need to be around ill people I can't come up with any rhyme or reason to any of this- that is what is one of the overwhelming components. Do you know, that I cannot think of a time period that there was not someone critically ill that JF was around in the past 17 years other than maybe 2-3 yrs? Someone has to be sick- always- or dying- or dead. And- she has to be there. I remember when Bruce died, someone asked her what she was going to do next, and she said, "I'm going to go help my father die, he's been trying to die for a long time, and I just need to help him go do it." He was ill already, but some people got creeped out by the comment and turned it in. anyway- it's a very very difficult thing to understand- I think there is a good shot that through the third husband's case there is something tangible that can be prosecuted- maybe even the second husband's- not sure. who am i... u know?
ok. just thought of a recent example to explain the "illogic" of it. this happened in the past 6-8 weeks. JF told my relative that my neice (her grand-daughter who got thyroid cancer) had a relapse, the cancer was not all out of her system, and they did not know if she was going to make it. She (JF) needed to move to that area because her daughter (my sis) did not understand the gravity of the situation, and that this was a matter of life and death, and so she (JF) needed to be there to watch over things. The problem with that story is that my relative called my sis to check the story, and it wasn't true- in fact- my niece had gotten a clean bill of health from her doctor and was ready to move on with her life. Let's pray she doesn't have a relapse as JF has predicted. I am on here tonight working on "questions".. I'm glad to see some of your philosophies and psychology work on this- because I QUIT on that! it's is somewhat crazy making huh? I'm happy to answer any questions that i know though.. and love to hear your analysis on either side of the coin.
you know... I really had some kind of a mental breakthrough that I needed with Joanie's comment about the randomness. I had decided that I was putting away trying to understand this, and just going for factual information- but that comment- and then Kimsters control comment- made me realize that however this started out- there has to be an element of munchausens by proxy. It all makes sense to me now- I have so so many examples of that- I could sit here and rattle off 20 easy to you of illnesses she's made up about myself, or herself, or of others. It makes people feel sorry for her, and look at her with pity- which is something that SOCIOPATHS strive for, and .. which backs people up from asking the tough life questions like "where's my money jf". who would ask that when someone is ill, or just died? I remember another thing from the sociopath next door, it said, the ultimate goal for the sociopath is to have a willing victim. Just think- to sit there, and THANK the person who is giving you your "medicine" or your food that is killing you, and want to be with them, and love them all the more- what a combo of munchausen's and sociopath. Is there a more willing victim than that? I always thought it was an either / or situation- but perhaps there is an element of both in the one diagnosis.
DANG me and my long posts! here i go again! you guys made me think- ok.. my list of 20- sooo easy to put together: (these are ONLY fabrications about medical things.. nothing to do with financial or random.. "why would anyone lie about that?" things)
1. She told people I had Lupus when I was in my early 20’s
2. I was hospitalized every year for several years in a row with stomach pains as a child- she told people I had some type of a rare appendicitis that I don’t really understand.. maybe it’s true- who knows
3. She told me that my grandmother was too ill to reach her arm to the phone when she got diagnosed with cancer, so not to call her. (not true.. my aunt told me to call her anyway)
4. She told me that my grandmother’s teeth were splintering from her cancer. I was horrified- I asked my grandma how her teeth were when I saw her, she had no idea what I was talking about, I asked her if they were splintering, and she said, “heavens no!”
5. A lady at the hospital where Bruce was staying came up and congratulated me on my bravery for battling my multiple sclerosis for the past 12 years or so. It had already been determined that I did NOT have multiple sclerosis, and I hadn’t even been suspected of having it until 4 yrs before that or so- she refused to give up hope that I had a crippling illness.
6. She told people that I couldn’t drive a car I was so ill. That story came to a head and when I almost wasn’t allowed to come to Christmas because I had to drive myself. She told me to get an employee to drive me, anyone, then she said, “let me think about this”. She had to come up with a story to tell everyone on how I was well enough to make it up there, even though behind my back she was saying I was going to die and couldn’t drive.
7. She told people that Sammy had a list of various illnesses-various fabricated.
8. She told people that Bruce had alzheimers- parkinsons, and a couple of other things I think.
9. She told people that my husband was losing his mind and should be institutionalized as Roy had been.
10. She told people that Roy was going to die.
11. She told people that Roy had… _______ fill in the blank- choose from a long list
12. She told people that she had been diagnosed with Lupus (not true) amongst other illnesses all serious
13. She told people she had to leave to Missouri right away one time, because the nursing home had called and her mother was going to die that night. (not true)
14. She told people that I had been diagnosed with ________ fill in the blank (bi-polar, schizophrenia, lupus, MS, a bunch of other neurological diseases I don’t even remember)
15. She told people that her father’s unknown neurological coma, almost causing his death, that they NOW say, it was one of the first cases of the west nile virus. (nooooo… not true)
16. She told people the grand-daughter (no naming minors here.. ) was probably not going to make it through her cancer, even though she was already cured.
17. She told a relative that her room-mate was extremely ill with her thyroid cancer, but later she moved out and got married- seemed a little over-exaggerated
18. She told the E.R. doctors one time when I was in there with acute abdominal pains, (and I told them I was sure it was food poisoning) she told them that I had scarring all over my brain, and bands in my spinal fluid, and that this type of thing always happens to me- ALL of it a lie.
19. She told someone in the third family, “you know, my brother couldn’t see when he left my house… but they found a tumor in his kidney, so he was going to die anyway”. Don’t know how to interpret that one- I’ll just let it sit.
20. She told her third husband to never talk to me again because I had gone off some medication that made me go crazy. (nope)
1. She told people I had Lupus when I was in my early 20’s
2. I was hospitalized every year for several years in a row with stomach pains as a child- she told people I had some type of a rare appendicitis that I don’t really understand.. maybe it’s true- who knows
3. She told me that my grandmother was too ill to reach her arm to the phone when she got diagnosed with cancer, so not to call her. (not true.. my aunt told me to call her anyway)
4. She told me that my grandmother’s teeth were splintering from her cancer. I was horrified- I asked my grandma how her teeth were when I saw her, she had no idea what I was talking about, I asked her if they were splintering, and she said, “heavens no!”
5. A lady at the hospital where Bruce was staying came up and congratulated me on my bravery for battling my multiple sclerosis for the past 12 years or so. It had already been determined that I did NOT have multiple sclerosis, and I hadn’t even been suspected of having it until 4 yrs before that or so- she refused to give up hope that I had a crippling illness.
6. She told people that I couldn’t drive a car I was so ill. That story came to a head and when I almost wasn’t allowed to come to Christmas because I had to drive myself. She told me to get an employee to drive me, anyone, then she said, “let me think about this”. She had to come up with a story to tell everyone on how I was well enough to make it up there, even though behind my back she was saying I was going to die and couldn’t drive.
7. She told people that Sammy had a list of various illnesses-various fabricated.
8. She told people that Bruce had alzheimers- parkinsons, and a couple of other things I think.
9. She told people that my husband was losing his mind and should be institutionalized as Roy had been.
10. She told people that Roy was going to die.
11. She told people that Roy had… _______ fill in the blank- choose from a long list
12. She told people that she had been diagnosed with Lupus (not true) amongst other illnesses all serious
13. She told people she had to leave to Missouri right away one time, because the nursing home had called and her mother was going to die that night. (not true)
14. She told people that I had been diagnosed with ________ fill in the blank (bi-polar, schizophrenia, lupus, MS, a bunch of other neurological diseases I don’t even remember)
15. She told people that her father’s unknown neurological coma, almost causing his death, that they NOW say, it was one of the first cases of the west nile virus. (nooooo… not true)
16. She told people the grand-daughter (no naming minors here.. ) was probably not going to make it through her cancer, even though she was already cured.
17. She told a relative that her room-mate was extremely ill with her thyroid cancer, but later she moved out and got married- seemed a little over-exaggerated
18. She told the E.R. doctors one time when I was in there with acute abdominal pains, (and I told them I was sure it was food poisoning) she told them that I had scarring all over my brain, and bands in my spinal fluid, and that this type of thing always happens to me- ALL of it a lie.
19. She told someone in the third family, “you know, my brother couldn’t see when he left my house… but they found a tumor in his kidney, so he was going to die anyway”. Don’t know how to interpret that one- I’ll just let it sit.
20. She told her third husband to never talk to me again because I had gone off some medication that made me go crazy. (nope)
Kimster- I think this post has a lot of elements in it that are meaningful to me. 1.- you had to face a parent that was doing something through the entire process- through the arrest and even his passing. 2. You handled it better than you thought 3. You are still helping other people understand crime 4. when you mentioned that you'd never been sick eating fish, I thought- hmmm I wonder why she never told the mayo clinic doctors- well.. I guess we do have a bunch of mercury over at my dad's house- she let them examine fish. 5. You have a picture up of an unsolved crime that happened 5 years ago, and still no justice... All of the above made me think a few things- SuziQ told me that I would be suprised how many people in here have been through similar experiences that I have. Sometimes people go to jail like your father, sometimes like your post, justice is illusive. I think finding the peace to understanding it, and knowing that we did EVERYTHING in our power to make it right is the only justice we can hope for. In answer to your question, I am not prepared necessarily for her to be arrested, because I am still trying to wrap my arms around it all- you make a very good point there. I think that the only "justice" that I may ever know may come inside this room, and just coming to terms with it and understanding it better. Only time will tell..
and. a little p.s. about my vernon's pond- no.. my uncle did not go to vernon's before he came out- that was made up. also- I could go line by line in that email and tell you what is not correct about it... from life insurance comments/pre-nup comments to the river fish comments. You remember a different email where she says, "i know nothing of mercury" then now, she's some kind of an expert- anyway... now you see why Casey Anthony is so fascinating to me.
I just was thinking about my dad a little bit more lately because his birthday would've been on the 4th of July here in a few days... He would've been an old man of 63! My Uncle (other one in the case) would've turned 56 two days later on the 6th. I think the FBI should have my dad's autopsy results by now, not sure what they ended up doing about my Uncle's ashes- but no one has called me yet. I have a feeling that they aren't going to release any info until they decide what to do with the case. I just wanted to put a word in here about my dad and how much I loved him and have grown to understand him more as I've gotten older... and how much I wish my kids could've known their Grandpa Spriggs... he did a lot with the hand he was dealt. I am going to send his father a care package (he's still alive and in a nursing home) for my father's would've been birthday because I know it's what he would've wanted me to do- take care of his dad. I have had a strange peace set in over me the past month... after talking with all of you- letting it settle in, pondering everything deep in my soul, and a few prayers/meditations/ whatever you wish to call them- and I know I did the right thing- and I hope for justice of course, but I know longer need a third party to prove to me anymore what I lived through, or what I believe or saw, or what was confessed to me when I was "dying". I am finally starting to trust myself again- and understand that there are humans behind the 'monster masks', and that I can still love my mother... but not the acts, and not deny myself truth anymore. How's that for a nice birthday post for my father. I hope all of you are well.
SillyRabbit
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2008
- Messages
- 20
- Reaction score
- 0
Lucky2--Just wondered if you had any new information from the autopsies or anything else.
Hope you're doing well.
Hope you're doing well.
nursebeeme
Registered User
- Joined
- May 3, 2008
- Messages
- 53,158
- Reaction score
- 213
Sillyrabbit, I ditto your post and hope that you (((((lucky2))))) are doing well. I hope you can get some closure on this soon!
hi-thx for your sweet comments. This is what I know about the autopsies: I know that there was a miscommunication about when the results would be back. Apparently, four months ago the FBI was at a 50% testing complete phase, and they are still not done! They are being very meticulous and have several tissue samples from different organs and are testing for many many different possibilities. (Missouri ran a quick test of one organ sample, and only about 8 items checked for, so that is why the FBI was very quick to state that there test was NOT part of this investigation.) The FBI is doing a very thorough job on both autopsies.
Have any of you had an experience of closure on something horrible that is unexplainable? I sincerely had that happen- I have not had anymore internal conflict about this for almost a month now. I still feel the pain and the loss of all the people who are deceased, and the pain and the loss of those immediate family members who are now estranged, but I finally regained trust in myself again- I needed that back because I've always had myself to count on- and I didn't know if I was trustworthy anymore, that perhaps I was lying to myself. After 3 1/2 years of torturing myself over this, I finally feel at ease that I know I did the right thing, and I know what happened. Finally, the horrible feelings of knowing I should say something but hadn't are gone, the reprecussions of opening my mouth and saying something are over I hope, and the pain of living through it all is starting to subside because I have myself back. What a horrible but necessary journey.
SillyRabbit
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2008
- Messages
- 20
- Reaction score
- 0
The justice may end up being in the civil courts rather than criminal. Is that case scheduled for trial yet?
nursebeeme
Registered User
- Joined
- May 3, 2008
- Messages
- 53,158
- Reaction score
- 213
Lucky2,
Great to hear how things are going and also wonderful to hear how well you are doing too! I am so very glad to hear that! Keep us posted as the fbi does their thang. It sounds like they are being completely thorough!
Great to hear how things are going and also wonderful to hear how well you are doing too! I am so very glad to hear that! Keep us posted as the fbi does their thang. It sounds like they are being completely thorough!
the civil case is in the discovery phase I guess... 30 days to turn over this or that, etc. then deposition phase. no court date that I know of. I do know that for some reason she has switched from a civil attorney to a criminal attorney handling her case within the same firm the third family said. not sure why on that. to be honest.. for all I know the results are back from the autopsies and they are just keeping a lid on it all for the criminal. I do know that they are not just testing for those two people, there is a third person who has a tissue sample in their hands now for about a year as well, and that person's medical records were just requested by quantico, the fbi lab doing the testing. so.. just some basic facts that I do know ...
It isn't scheduled for trial yet that I know of- I guess they are still shuffling papers back and forth on pre-stuff. And- still no word on autopsies- maybe they aren't going to give us results for a while for whatever reason. It's been a year and a half since the exhumations- unbelievable this has been going on so long.
I don't want to mis-represent my "state" by saying everything is peachy and wonderful, I am definately going through the depression stage at the end where I fully realize that there is absolutely nothing that can be done about any of this- any way I look at it I lost nearly everyone except my kids and hub. That is an overwhelming loss. I just think it's a huge accomplishment to finally be over the "I can't trust myself" stage. At least I am alive, healthy, and know who I am- the rest of the losses will take some time, and I may never get over some of them, but I know that I WILL be okay- I can feel that. I'm sure that more than a few of you in here have experienced this process from what you've said in the past. I feel truly blessed that I could recover through this, and wish that my uncle, father, step father, other step father, step-brother, and a few others I am thinking of could have been afforded the same opportunity.
I am Roy Forgy's younger son's ex-wife. I was notified today that he has kidney cancer and when I googled his name to find out his address so that I can take my daughter to see him, I was dumbfounded to come across this blog. I've read most of the postings and so much from that time period that I know makes sense now that I read the comments here.
I'm wondering if you have been in contact, or if anyone has been, with either of Roy's sons. I talked to his youngest today (my ex) and he said he knew a little about it but not much and that I should contact his brother. I'd be interested to know.
I'm wondering if you have been in contact, or if anyone has been, with either of Roy's sons. I talked to his youngest today (my ex) and he said he knew a little about it but not much and that I should contact his brother. I'd be interested to know.