MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #10

[MDATCA]

Bustamante's friend speaks out

"She was always so sweet and everybody loved her, she was just amazing," she said. "Who can really, honestly believe their friend would be a murderer?"

More at link -

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391

Most of us would have a hard time believing their friend could be a murderer even when there are cold hard facts. We all keep condemning T/CR for being AB's friend. T/CR's father is a different story b/c instead of justifying and reveling his daughters relationship with AB, he should be actively getting his daughter help and guiding her. Obviously he is not doing his job as a parent from the continues postings by T/CR.

I have a new theory I would like to present. I am not sure if things I am putting have already been brought out but I don't think they have.

Maybe the written evidence was the story Elizabeth 2000. I know it was posted on T/CR's MS but maybe AB gave/emailed it to T/CR. I know it is/was dated December 14, 2008 but then people figured out that there was something with it being back dated or an old item was edited with the story to make it seem like it was old. I am not sure if I have the final version saved or if it was the original. I missed one of them but don't know which. I know it was changed rather quickly after the murder. I don't think we can post the story or the different versions of it so I can only hope that most of you that have read it or at least some version of it.

At first T/CR may have thought it was AB capitalizing on the disappearance of EO and made up a story about it. Then T/CR started thinking about it and realized it had more truth in it than fiction and went to authorities or even Mr. Currie. There has been speculation that AB would not have been in his classes but what about T/CR? Maybe T/CR rewrote it based on AB's original and first posted that but then after AB was taken into custody she changed it and posted the original version. That could be why she is being so publicly loyal to AB as she feels the only reason AB was caught was because of her turning the story in. I can imagine how conflicted T/CR is. I sure hope her father gets a clue soon so that young lady can deal with all the conflict she is living with.

I wonder if T/CR realizes that all her "defense" of AB could actually be harmful to her and AB.

I have more thoughts on this but I want to see what anyone thinks first.


ETA: I am questoning this now as I would think that if this were the case I would hope she would have spoken to an atty and they would advise her to keep it all quiet. But then again who knows because he father doen't seem bright enough to know to protect his daughter.

 

[Cortne]

Hi all, I came upon this case a bit late, and took quite awhile catching up (finally am :woohoo, but while I was going through the threads, watching things develop, I kept getting this creepy feeling of deja-vu, didn't know where it came from - and then I read about Alyssa saying 'she just wanted to know what it would feel like to kill someone', and a chill went down my spine. This is soooo eerily similar to a case in Australia - the 2006 Eliza Jane Davis murder.


I'm assuming that only Aussies would be familiar, so here's a random article about it:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...der-pact-mystery/story-e6freuzi-1111113402489

(snipped, BBM)

EXPERTS are baffled why two teen girls made a cold-blooded pact to murder a 15-year-old friend, who they strangled and buried under her home, a court has heard.

The two 17-year-old girls, who cannot be named, appeared at Perth Children's Court for a sentencing hearing today after pleading guilty to murdering Eliza Jane Davis in the West Australian coal mining town of Collie on June 18, 2006.

Their two defence lawyers pointed to the girls' troubled pasts or drug use as mitigation for the murder.

Prosecutor Simon Stone has also told the court it appears the sadistic pair just wanted to experience killing someone....



Defence lawyer Gillian Braddock, SC, said her vulnerable client, who had lost both parents by the time she was 10, appeared to have been led by her co-accused, who has been described as a disturbed and angry young woman with a fascination with death....

But both girls played active roles in the murder – one strangling Eliza with speaker wire, while the other pressed a chemical-soaked cloth to Eliza's mouth as the girl struggled and begged for her life.

The girls reported Eliza missing after they buried her beneath her house and pretended to help her family look for the dead girl.

"We knew it was wrong, but it didn't feel wrong at all, it just felt right," one of the girls said in her police interview.

She said they did not really expect to get away with murder but felt killing Eliza was worth the risk.

Defence lawyer Michael Clarke said his client's unhappy and drug-riddled life was out of control by the time the murder occurred.....


But Mr Stone said that at no time had the girl admitted feeling sorry about the killing of Eliza.

He told the court yesterday that one of the girls had described watching Eliza's reactions change from anger, to fear, to the realisation that she was going to die, but did nothing to stop the murder....


(more in article)


Am I the only one that gets the heebee-jeebees from this?

You are absolutely not alone on the heebee-jeebees.

I told a co worker of mine yesterday Im pretty sure I would not be able to live w myself had I killed another person.

 

[badhorsie]

You are absolutely not alone on the heebee-jeebees.

I told a co worker of mine yesterday Im pretty sure I would not be able to live w myself had I killed another person.

BBM I have always felt exactly the same...

 

[Velouria]

Bustamante's friend speaks out

"She was always so sweet and everybody loved her, she was just amazing," she said. "Who can really, honestly believe their friend would be a murderer?"

More at link -

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=380391

Er, I must be really behind the times, but when I was growing up, "sweet" did not equal "enjoys killing, cutting, and electrocution". Is this friend of AB's the same one with all the face bling?

 

[SkewedView]

Er, I must be really behind the times, but when I was growing up, "sweet" did not equal "enjoys killing, cutting, and electrocution". Is this friend of AB's the same one with all the face bling?

I doubt it - from the description of her knowing AB from church and middle school, I would assume she's just a normal girl that was duped by AB's Jekyl and Hyde act. JMO

 

[MDATCA]

After using AB for so long I have a hard time using her name. I don't like to use it because it is a pretty name and I know a few Alyssas so I don't want to think of them when I think about this case. I force myself to when I write and I don't know why because asI said it doesn't feel right to me. I guess it humanizes a monster.

 

[crimecurious]

Whew, I never thought I'd get caught up reading all the updates. :crazy:

Does anyone know why AB wouldn't be listed on vinelink?

 

[crimecurious]

it's the MO database that lists all people in jails (not just prisons)

 

[crimecurious]

Oh, I just noticed a bunch of counties are "offline" for some reason...

 

[danni]

Oh, I just noticed a bunch of counties are "offline" for some reason...

I just searched for her and found her!

edit: I found her under offender with court cases, I didn't find her under the offender search.

 

[scapa]

Great info here on a sad and disturbing case. AB reminds me of Jasmine Richardson -- the writing, the two sides (on- and offline selves), the emptiness. Perhaps not the out-and-out sociopath that Jasmine seems to be, and never found her Jeremy Steinke, thank the lord.

s

 

[crimecurious]

I just searched for her and found her!

edit: I found her under offender with court cases, I didn't find her under the offender search.

Yeah, the offender search is real-time documentation of her exact location. That's what I was looking for. Thanks for the help though.

 

[gitana1]

Was wondering if the Prozac defense has been discussed here ? After reading that AB was in fact taking Prozac http://www.komu.com/satellite/Satel...4c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814 a huge lightbulb lite up... I would bet my last dollar that Prozac will be her defense. Prozac has long been known to promote suicide and violent behavior. There have been many lawsuits brought against Eli Lily, the manufacturer of Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft.

http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/drug-toxic_chemicals/prozac-lawsuit.htm

Hundreds of lawsuits have been filed against Eli Lilly claiming that its antidepressant Prozac caused both suicide and violent behavior in some people who took it. Several of those Prozac lawsuits were highlighted in the news.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/01/03/prozac.documents/index.html

(CNN) -- An internal document purportedly from Eli Lilly and Co. made public Monday appears to show that the drug maker had data more than 15 years ago showing that patients on its antidepressant Prozac were far more likely to attempt suicide and show hostility than were patients on other antidepressants and that the company attempted to minimize public awareness of the side effects.

I know I'm about 24 hours late in responding to this post but I can imagine a case where a teen on Prozac gets angry and lashes out suddenly, in a violent manner, due to the medication. But, this was not a teen who had a sudden violent outburst or mere homicidal thoughts. She seemed to obsess about killing and pain and she planned this act and tried to hide it. I don't know if she is otherwise seriously mentally ill and thus had no real understanding of what it meant to kill someone or if no underlying mental health issues contributed to her crime except sociopathy and/or some kind of attachment disorder, and her youth caused her not to realize how easy it would be to be caught and what the consequences would be. But, I just don't think Prozac or any drug like it could possibly cause such an obviously premeditated act.
Whatever is the reason, she's what I call a "bad dog". Some farmer friends of mine had a pit bull that ran around loose on the farm. They rented their land out to sheep herders and I asked if they were worried that the dog would kill a sheep. The husband said, "He!! no. If he did, I'd shoot him and never have to worry about that again. Once a dog goes bad, there's no fixing them."
I think that applies to humans too. This girl is disturbed and has killed now, in a most gruesome way, just for fun. There's no fixing that, I think, regardless of her youth. She will be a danger forever at this point, IMO.
The kid scares me.

 

[SevenSeas]

I've thought and re-thought about AB's 15 yr. old mind. I know she had the loss of both parents at an early age, and then the GP's had to step in. There had to be a TON of chaos going on for THAT to happen!

That was 4 years ago according to most media accounts. AB admitted to a friend..how much she missed her Mother. I truly think think this had a huge effect on her path of going, Emo/Goth.

Thinking her own Mom and Dad didn't think of the consequences of their actions would affect their firstborn, never mind the twins...wow

They are total scumbags in my book, and I'm still wondering why we, or at least me... haven't been able to find ONE single pic, or record of this pseudo Mother MB, anywhere?

Is it yet another cover up by the Jefferson City Media??? :waitasec:

 

[MDATCA]

I've thought and re-thought about AB's 15 yr. old mind. I know she had the loss of both parents at an early age, and then the GP's had to step in. There had to be a TON of chaos going on for THAT to happen!

That was 4 years ago according to most media accounts. AB admitted to a friend..how much she missed her Mother. I truly think think this had a huge effect on her path of going, Emo/Goth.

Thinking her own Mom and Dad didn't think of the consequences of their actions would affect their firstborn, never mind the twins...wow

They are total scumbags in my book, and I'm still wondering why we, or at least me... haven't been able to find ONE single pic, or record of this pseudo Mother MB, anywhere?

Is it yet another cover up by the Jefferson City Media??? :waitasec:

Do you think this may have been to get he mom's attention? Or perhaps to "prove" herself to her bio paents snd be their peers as law breakers? HaHa! I am "badder" than you so I deserve you respect?

I am sure deep down in AB's psyche there are many little things that contributed to why. I bet she isn't aware of them and that is why she says, "I wanted to see how it felt." Which to me is a blanket statement. In what way did you want to know? Emotionally, physically or mentally; I want to knpw what that means to AB.

 

[crimecurious]

I've thought and re-thought about AB's 15 yr. old mind. I know she had the loss of both parents at an early age, and then the GP's had to step in. There had to be a TON of chaos going on for THAT to happen!

That was 4 years ago according to most media accounts. AB admitted to a friend..how much she missed her Mother. I truly think think this had a huge effect on her path of going, Emo/Goth.

Thinking her own Mom and Dad didn't think of the consequences of their actions would affect their firstborn, never mind the twins...wow

They are total scumbags in my book, and I'm still wondering why we, or at least me... haven't been able to find ONE single pic, or record of this pseudo Mother MB, anywhere?

Is it yet another cover up by the Jefferson City Media??? :waitasec:

I can't find any pics either. Do we know if she was at the hearings?

 

[W8nC]

Mom was at the hearings, with grandma.

I've been thinking that same thing, about trying to impress her parents, by being as bad as, or worse than they are. Maybe she felt that was the only way to gain their respect. I've also wondered if there is any significance to the fact that EO has family members in prison, as well. I can't explain the connection, just sort of feels like maybe that may have had importance to AB, in choosing EO as her victim? I don't know, just unfinished theories in my head.

And concerning her friends....T/CR is not her only friend, and very possibly not her closest friend. Have to say, when she showed up as a friend of AB, I was surprised, seems like the wrong "type", based on the kids I know who know her, who have involved parents. IMO, T/CR is a pretender, looking for her 15 minutes. The girl from the church said they weren't as close the last year or 2 as when AB first joined the church. I don't think the kids AB hung out with at school are the same kind of people as T/CR. They don't have face bling and meth dads.

My opinion only.

 

[lajr56]

This article has some explanations of the juvenile justice system in Missouri. Apparently it is a model for the rest of the country. I never knew that.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...76750015EFC9?OpenDocument#tp_newCommentAnchor

 

[Prof]

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/11/21/news_local/doc4b06b756f2b43893819471.txt

Online editor posts some interesting comments today -- I think giving a nod toward the WS forum --not mentioning any forums specifically, but it sounds like WS etiquette on this case specifically to which editor refers

This article also notes that the move has not yet been ordered or approved (to Fulton State Hospital)

 

[mybackyard]

As you may know I'm from Jefferson City. Regarding a couple of recent posts (bear with me I'm new and probably don't know best way to do this):

W8nc said: "I've also wondered if there is any significance to the fact that EO has family members in prison, as well. I can't explain the connection, just sort of feels like maybe that may have had importance to AB, in choosing EO as her victim? I don't know, just unfinished theories in my head."

Perhaps it has not been mentioned, and if it has, it needs repeating, Elizabeth's father, Dale Olten and a brother are in prison. It is my understanding Dale Sr. was involved with drugs. Also, it has been reported that Dale Sr. was the last person to see alive a young woman who has been missing for a couple of years and is probably dead, I think her name is/was Jasmine Haslag. Her mother, first name Florence, has been very active in helping families of missing persons here in MO and was with Elizabeth's family before the body was found.

lajr56 mentions that MO's juvenile justice system is a national model. Yes, and it has been for quite a while. Our Division of Youth Services (DYS) has a long history of trying to find the best programs to help youth in their custody. MO has been a national leader in many areas: services to problem youth (DYS), early learning (we started the Parents as Teachers program), state parks (some of the best in the country but now facing funding cuts), child support enforcement (once a national leader, now barely exists). Sorry, I'm off topic.

I invite you to look at the News Tribune, and join in the discussion on the forums.