MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #12

[LadyBug99]

I don't feel the same way about the electric fence vid that others do.

Growing up with lots of brothers, I did lots of masochistic things as rites of passage. If we had an electric fence, I would have been out there grabbing it.
And I have never killed anyone. Neither has my fiance, who actually did the electric fence thing as a teen.

Lots of people, IMO, are taking that as a much bigger sign than it actually was.

I agree. I also grew up with brothers and hung out with the boys in the neighborhood. I can personally say that we did MANY things that people here would think were “sick” and “evil”. I’m not sure if it has to do with growing up in a very small town, but without things to do our little imaginations ran wild. We would electrocute each other, shoot each other with BB guns, we played the “pass out” game and that is just naming a few. If we had video cameras and jackass stunts to emulate, I’m almost positive we would have been doing the same thing. In no way do I find that behavior indicative of cruel and heinous acts to come. People are looking at her choice of clothes, music and hobbies as red flags. I don’t. I guess that’s why I’m trying to look deeper to find out what drives a teenager (or any person) to kill.

 

[gliving]

If she went far enough as to plan by digging the graves, it seems reasonable that she would have left herself a change of clothes out there, too. MOO.

She may have worn coveralls and removed them after the killing.

 

[Csquare]

She may have worn coveralls and removed them after the killing.

That is what I was wondering. She very well could have had a second set of clothes underneath what she was wearing.

 

[gliving]

I am so far behind that this has probably already been discussed.... but I haven't seen it so I will post it anyway.

Her next court date has changed from Dec 7 to Dec 8th at 10:30 am per Casenet.

Now off to change my vacation request...

Jodibug, it's good to hear you will be attending. Your info from the last court meeting was very much appreciated!

Tuesday, December 1, 2009

This email is to inform you of an upcoming court event involving the defendant ALYSSA BUSTAMANTE and court case number 09ACCR03516. A(n) Counsel Status Hearing has been scheduled for 12/8/2009 at 10:30 AM. This will take place in Cole County, Circuit Division 4 Courtroom located at: 301 East High Street in Jefferson City, MO 65101.

If you plan to attend the hearing, be sure to check with the prosecutor's office to make sure the hearing is still set. You should telephone the day before the hearing, as last minute continuances are often granted. For more information, contact the office responsible for this case. The telephone number is (573)634-9180.

This notification is sponsored by the Missouri Department of Public Safety. It is our hope that this information has been helpful to you.

Thank you,

MOVANS CVSU@dps.mo.gov

 

[AndresEscobar]

OPINION...........

(respectfully snipped)

EVERYONE isn't willing to consign her to the deep, as you say. Some are, some aren't. Nearly everyone wants to be sure that she isn't returned to society until and unless she's paid a significant price for taking a life, AND rehabilitated to the point that she no longer poses a threat to our children. I expect that'll take a while. Isn't it true that young murderers do often see freedom, and often at an age where they can have a family and a life after prison? If Alyssa is mentally stable enough to be released at age 30 or 35, she can still have a full life. Elizabeth can't.

If this case is how it looks (ie. we don't find any mitigating circumstances) AB will not be released by 30 or 35.

 

[Dal Gal]

Why go thru the trouble of digging separate graves for individual victims? She already showed a complete disregard for EO's life by ending it, that I can't imagine she'd grant her a separate grave instead of throwing another body into the same grave.

IMO, that second grave was the first attempt which was foiled by roots, rocks, whatever. Sure, we can call it a "grave" but until it contains a body, it is really only a hole.

 

[AndresEscobar]

We do have the fact that the LE arrested her....and the proscecution has put in enough evidence that a judge feels that Allyssa is such a threat that she should be tried as an adult.

The cops are not out looking for someone else...this is not an open "mystery"

Everything we see from her so called friends is weird..."nice"...but confides that she wants to "kill people"

Sick crazy pictures....sick crazy videos...sadistic...pictures of her with the electric fence..videos of her shoving her brothers off a diving board in a jackazz sort of "stunt"...she could have hurt or killed them right there

I imagine we will see a lot more info when this comes to trial. Fact is that this was "solved" pretty quickly and LE seems to be confident. They have even put out the gruesome facts of HOW poor Elizabeth was killed

If the case is solved, then what's the point of continuing to discuss it?

 

[mixologist74]

If the case is solved, then what's the point of continuing to discuss it?

Agreed. It isn't solved until she goes to trial and is found guilty or not guilty by a jury of her peers. PERIOD.

 

[tlcya]

I still wonder how she managed to get back into her house with dirty/bloody clothes...

I find it interesting that we are all wondering about blood evidence and bloody clothing.

We do not know the extent of the injuries inflicted by knife (ie shallow cuts? Deep ones? 1" blade? 5" blade? etc.)

These are all questions that beg answers before we can even speculate about blood evidence.

If we do not know the answer to those question then we cannot really theorize how much blood would have been involved. Would there have been arterial spray? We just don't know enough at this point to really even know if some bloody clothes exist or not.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Is it known that she didn't remove her clothes before attacking Elizabeth?

I'm sorry if this is known/has been discussed/sleuthed - I haven't been following this case closely - just checking in every few days.

Another question - I saw people saying they think the second grave was for AB's little sister. Two graves is so unusual. My first thought when I read about two graves was that AB initially intended to kill the twin boys. I'd seen the vid of the electric fence so that may have influenced my thinking.

Was AB more hostile toward the little sister than the boys?

TIA and sorry if these things have already been discussed.

BeanE

We really don't know anything about either of these. Tricia poster earlier from her source that confirmed that AB dug one grave, found it unsatisfactory, then dug the other one. The speculation that it was for a second victim hasn't been confirmed by anything.

We also don't know anything about her clothes. Theories have ranged from AB coming home in her bloody, dirty clothes; AB "hiding" another set of clothes out in the woods and disposing of her own clothes, etc.

 

[LogicalMinds]

If the case is solved, then what's the point of continuing to discuss it?

One might question the continued interest in the Caylee Anthony case, which has been "solved" by the detectives...and they are putting on their case

I think it can be summed up as "crime and punishment"...I want to find out what is happening...I want to be a "voice" for the victim of the crime

I think many of us want to see what will come next, what info will come out

and I hope to see Justice served

why ask why?? In many of these "cases" there is not much "sleuthing" to be done...many don't have any clues...some have answers...who knows?? I doubt that any/many of the "cases" here are totally open to the board posters

I feel this is a good place to discuss crimes in the news and also to take actions : to send a letter in support of Klaaskid's about the trucker's channel....to sign a petition...to find out info. I just found out how lax Florida is in even sending over "abuse call ins" to the proper authorities...just shocking

 

[tlcya]

If the case is solved, then what's the point of continuing to discuss it?

lol, yep, lets all pack it in and go home. Case closed Good morning to you.

 

[mixologist74]

We really don't know anything about either of these. Tricia poster earlier from her source that confirmed that AB dug one grave, found it unsatisfactory, then dug the other one. The speculation that it was for a second victim hasn't been confirmed by anything.

We also don't know anything about her clothes. Theories have ranged from AB coming home in her bloody, dirty clothes; AB "hiding" another set of clothes out in the woods and disposing of her own clothes, etc.

I believe it was raining the day of the murder. I know it was raining during the search. If she had hid clothes in the woods, wouldn't they have been wet and/or muddy? Also, I haven't heard anything said about any clothes being found out in the woods either. Don't you think that would have been released in a statement to media?

 

[AndresEscobar]

No, sorry. I don't remember them mentioning any attorney being present, but that doesn't mean there wasn't one, or that they said and I missed it.

If there wasn't an attorney present for the confession, this was a huge mistake by the grandparents. The first thing they should have said was to request an attorney.

 

[AndresEscobar]

She may have worn coveralls and removed them after the killing.

This is an interesting theory.

re: clothes speculation, had she had coveralls or a change of clothes in the forest, it would be indicative of premeditation.

 

[vjlaw]

I find it interesting that we are all wondering about blood evidence and bloody clothing.

We do not know the extent of the injuries inflicted by knife (ie shallow cuts? Deep ones? 1" blade? 5" blade? etc.)

These are all questions that beg answers before we can even speculate about blood evidence.

If we do not know the answer to those question then we cannot really theorize how much blood would have been involved. Would there have been arterial spray? We just don't know enough at this point to really even know if some bloody clothes exist or not.

We have heard nothing from the autopsy, but she is charged with murdering Elizabeth Kay Olten by strangulating, stabbing and cutting the wrists. If the medical examiner couldn't determine which one of those things she actually died from, I would think the stabbing and wrist cutting was deep enough to cause death, therefore causing blood. JMO

 

[Jodibug]

I believe it was raining the day of the murder. I know it was raining during the search. If she had hid clothes in the woods, wouldn't they have been wet and/or muddy? Also, I haven't heard anything said about any clothes being found out in the woods either. Don't you think that would have been released in a statement to media?

No, it was not raining the evening of October 21st.

That night it was warm (high 60's), the weather was great.

It had been raining earlier in the week, and it poured all day Thursday while we were searching.

But on Wed evening when Elizabeth went missing and was murdered the weather was great.

 

[AndresEscobar]

That is what I was wondering. She very well could have had a second set of clothes underneath what she was wearing.

If she had a second set underneath, it would still most likely have physical evidence on it. But, it would might not be enough to for the GPs to see with at a glance or even with the naked eye.

 

[vjlaw]

If there wasn't an attorney present for the confession, this was a huge mistake by the grandparents. The first thing they should have said was to request an attorney.

I believe there was a juvenile officer present also. But of course, that is not a lawyer.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Why go thru the trouble of digging separate graves for individual victims? She already showed a complete disregard for EO's life by ending it, that I can't imagine she'd grant her a separate grave instead of throwing another body into the same grave.

IMO, that second grave was the first attempt which was foiled by roots, rocks, whatever. Sure, we can call it a "grave" but until it contains a body, it is really only a hole.

This is an excellent point. I agree with this completely.

Two graves don't necessarily mean two victims. We also don't know whether the grave was open or not at the time of the murder. I'm guessing it was covered by the time of the search.