MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #14

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So, I've been sitting here THINKING about how there were comments that Alyssa had said she went off of her Prozac.. My question is.. IF this is true.. why wasn't she being monitored while she was on this medication? With the recent pill trading fad and whatnot.. why weren't the pills distributed to her by her GP's, and she was watched while she took them? You would think with such a serious medication, her treatment would have been watched and monitored closely.

oh.. IMO.. JMO... MOO..
 
Csquare, Can you tell us what a day is like for AB at present in the current facility? I mean does she sit in a cell 24 - 7 or can she have reading material, writing tablets and pens, just what?
 
Here is one article that mentions "Pathways" in the report of the 11/18 court testimony:

http://www.komu.com/satellite/Satel...4c70b769/07ae129e-80ce-0971-0113-e864f8522814

I would love to see the information you have on them or your opinion of them :) I looked up the website http://www.pathwaysonline.org/

About Us

Pathways Community Behavioral Healthcare, Inc. is a not-for-profit community mental health center providing a full continuum of care and access to services across Missouri through 32 office locations.

Pathways provides comprehensive mental health and substance abuse treatment and prevention services to pre-adolescent children through older adult populations. We provide these services in a manner that is accessible to our clients, focuses on the needs of each person and utilizes the most cost-effective and affordable methods of care. Services are based on individual need and may include in-home comprehensive psychiatric rehabilitation services, office-based outpatient mental health and substance abuse treatment services, and adult and adolescent residential substance abuse treatment services. Included in our continuum of care is our sister organization, Royal Oaks Hospital, which provides acute inpatient services and partial hospitalization for children, adolescents and adults in Windsor, Missouri.

Pathways also promotes awareness of mental health and substance abuse issues, and introduces prevention topics/techniques in the workplace, school classrooms, and through our free quarterly newspaper insert, The Advisor.

There are over 800 Pathways employees to assist you . . . we believe in what we do and it shows . . . in our history, in our programs and most importantly in the consumers, families and individuals we help through the recovery process and on their way to a more fulfilling life.



I would like to know the "kind" and "where" too, but what I questioned previously was the "time frame" for all of this therapy, because for instance as stated in the http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/nov/19/teenager-indicted-in-slaying-of-9-year-old-girl/
Columbia Tribune article

"In 2007, Cook said, Bustamante attempted suicide, prompting a 10-day stay at the Mid-Missouri Mental Health Center. Follow-up treatment included a prescription for the anti-depressant Prozac and near-daily meetings with counselors. The treatment was primarily focused on her tendencies toward depression and self-mutilation — not her potential for homicidal tendencies, said Cook and Kurt Valentine, her juvenile court
counsel."

BBM I wondered how long "follow up" treatment lasts In my experience with my Bi Polar daughter it last as long as the parent/guardian persist in seeking care. In our case it started at age 12 and is on going still today and she is 18 yrs old. Though I will say her counselor at RTC did check on us periodically for two years. Putting a child in a RTC isnt something that is easy to do, or fun by any means. SO IMO I do not see the grandma taking this step, and then limiting her therapy. UNLESS somehow AB convinced therapist she was doing better, and no longer NEEDING help

I am curious if she was still in "near daily" treatment the week Elizabeth was murdered? That is the impression I got, but not sure why or what I read that lead my to beleive this

"Pathways "Pathways' comprehensive children's psychiatric services range from brief individual, group and family counseling that deal with issues such as depression and anxiety to long-term care and support for children with serious emotional disturbances."

http://www.pathwaysonline.org/services/psychChildrens.htm

BBM Okay, and David Cook was reported to have testified "Bustamante is described in the documents [notes and analysis by Bustamante’s therapists] as a troubled, angst-ridden teen, but not extraordinarily so. "

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/nov/19/teenager-indicted-in-slaying-of-9-year-old-girl/

BBM I have not read any quotes from David Cook that states she was in therapy for two years, or two weeks-- If you or anyone else has, I would appreciate any help --
I just cant help but think him saying "intensive" would me long term..
 
Csquare, Can you tell us what a day is like for AB at present in the current facility? I mean does she sit in a cell 24 - 7 or can she have reading material, writing tablets and pens, just what?

I have never worked in a county jail but I can say from my experience from prison.

IF she is on suicide watch she probally is not going to get any pencils or pens. I am pretty sure she has books and magizine for reading, I am not sure of her recreation schedule but she would be allowed time for that as well as showers, phone calls, and visits. MOO from my experience.

ETA I am pretty sure she is not in general population due to the situation. IMO she is being segregated and everything she is allowed to do is probally watched over for security for her. MOO
 
I'm a Pediatrician and must admit that I am really concerned when a child or adolescent wants to kill to see what it feels like. With this
accused teen and the young man who killed his younger brother the lack of remorse or any identification with their young victims is a red flag.
In freudian terms they have no superego. I don't feel they can be rehabilitated- Its gone too far. I hate to think about putting these teens in prison for life but sentencing them as juveniles ( prison till age 21 ) isn't a good idea. Lack of remorse for others is difficult to address in any forms of psycotherapy.

dr dona, So interesting. I'd like to read more of your opinion. "In freudian terms they have no superego" More about this please. And how you think it might apply to AB. Much thanks!!
 
So she can have visits from only certain people? And can they bring her books, snacks, grooming items or not? Sorry, just being curious!
 
So she can have visits from only certain people? And can they bring her books, snacks, grooming items or not? Sorry, just being curious!

They have a visiting list and only those approved can visit I believe once a week. As far as grooming items I am pretty sure that is provided her. The jail usually has books and magizines already. She would not be allowed to recieve anything from the outside w/o pror authorization for safety reasons. MOO
 
I wonder who's on her approved visitors list...

I am just guessing with this case her immediate family would be all that was allowed. That does not count her attorney which BTW does not count as a visit. IMO They are handling her with kids gloves to make sure nothing happens to her and making sure her rights are not violated.
 
Ok, if she is still on suicide watch she is pretty much being watched pretty close! So for the doctors and therapist from what history is known/rumored this will cause her to be stressed, agitated, and become more unstable and a reason for her attorney to request her be moved to a different facility?
 
CSquare... I'm very glad you are back, and it was nice to meet you the other day. Thanks for the ride back to work!
 
Ok, if she is still on suicide watch she is pretty much being watched pretty close! So for the doctors and therapist from what history is known/rumored this will cause her to be stressed, agitated, and become more unstable and a reason for her attorney to request her be moved to a different facility?

We had different levels of sucide watch. Full suicide watch we had to physically see them every 10 min and log it in a log. Plus the FSW cells had a camera in them. FSW that had nothing in the cells with them except for a tear proof gown. No mattress, sheets, blankets or pillows. On modified SW she would be allowed a mattress, and bedding along with writting needs. Again I base this off of my own experience.
 
CSquare... I'm very glad you are back, and it was nice to meet you the other day. Thanks for the ride back to work!

You are very welcome. It was my pleasure and it was nice meeting you. MOO
 
Ok, if she is still on suicide watch she is pretty much being watched pretty close! So for the doctors and therapist from what history is known/rumored this will cause her to be stressed, agitated, and become more unstable and a reason for her attorney to request her be moved to a different facility?

He entered a motion for that on Nov. 19 if I remember correctly.
 
He entered a motion for that on Nov. 19 if I remember correctly.

I wasn't positive what that motioned was. Thank you for that. I have not seen a ruling on that. Has there been one or has the judge decided yet?
 
I wasn't positive what that motioned was. Thank you for that. I have not seen a ruling on that. Has there been one or has the judge decided yet?

King apparently didn't want to discuss his motion in the hearing the other day, so maybe he is just waiting until a later date for some reason. I don't understand a motion for "immediate" hospitlization and no one acts on it.
 
King apparently didn't want to discuss his motion in the hearing the other day, so maybe he is just waiting until a later date for some reason. I don't understand a motion for "immediate" hospitlization and no one acts on it.

I agree there. Just didn't make sense unless she ruled and no one has said anything about it other than the parties involved, just a guess on my part
 
I agree there. Just didn't make sense unless she ruled and no one has said anything about it other than the parties involved, just a guess on my part

But I thought the motions and rulings were being posted on the Missouri site.. wouldn't we have possibly seen it there?
 
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