MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #14

[PAXIMUS]

Once again I'm going to post our TOS, and to remind everyone that we are all giving opinions here, none of it is all fact so please be respectful of everyones views/opinions here. If you disagree its fine, but don't make other members feel that there post or opinion is less than yours, everyone's opinion here is good. We are a discussion board and part of that is giving opinions. Thanks!


Terms of Service: Short Plain Language Version

Terms of Service - Short, Plain Language Version

We have a detailed, formal Terms of Service (TOS) posted separately, and that TOS is what you will be held to as a member here. It's long and detailed because it has to be in the world we live in, and you are expected to read it, understand it and abide by it. However, we can sum it up as follows:

1) Be a decent human being;
2) Treat your fellow posters as the decent human beings they are;
3) Keep in mind that whatever you post will likely live on forever, so think before you press "Submit Reply".
4) It's a big world. People will disagree with you. You will disagree with them. This can be done with respect, and that's what we expect.

I respect everyone's opinion and treat them all like human beings, all I was asking is if someone who claimed to be a medical physician was able to detemine that someone cannot be rehabilited from simply reading news reports. Sorry if that came across as anything other than what I intended and I will try and be more mindful of it.

 

[Csquare]

But I thought the motions and rulings were being posted on the Missouri site.. wouldn't we have possibly seen it there?

Well that is what I would think. Now how long they take to post it is another story, imoo

 

[LadyRider]

So time limits on rulings or the motion requests?

 

[Csquare]

So time limits on rulings or the motion requests?

Not sure I am understanding your question.

 

[hoppyfrog]

As a physician can you really make that statement without an acutal examination first? I dont mind anyone posting their opinion but to make a broad sweeping statement like that without ever having seen her medical file or knowing her medical history doesnt seem right IMO.

On the other hand I do not KNOW that she can be rehabilitated but I sure would like us to give it a try before locking her up and throwing away the keys.

Pax--

Please note that Dr. Dona says "I don't feel..." and "I hate to think..."

She's not making a definite diagnosis.

Hoppy

 

[LadyRider]

Sorry some one else beat me to it and most times I can't type as fast as I need to. I can't even think as fast as I need to at times. LOL

 

[JLMcKenna83]

Not sure I am understanding your question.

I think what she's trying to say is that.. Is there a time limit on how long a judge can take to rule on it.. Alyssa's lawyer entered it on Nov. 19th, does it have to be ruled on by a certain date.. or can the judge just keep putting it off..

correct me if I'm wrong..

 

[Csquare]

I think what she's trying to say is that.. Is there a time limit on how long a judge can take to rule on it.. Alyssa's lawyer entered it on Nov. 19th, does it have to be ruled on by a certain date.. or can the judge just keep putting it off..

correct me if I'm wrong..

I will look and see if I can find that info.

 

[LadyRider]

Even with this being a high profile case and we know the officials doing everything by the book, the judge or judges do have other cases to hear. Also wouldn't they need some form of records to prove AB's need for immediate transfer? I mean they will not agree to it just based on the attorney's wishes, right? I know and understand that poor AB is having difficulties adjusting to her new home, but!!! Yes my last sentence is me being sarcastic, in my opinion.

 

[eyes4crime]

So, I've been sitting here THINKING about how there were comments that Alyssa had said she went off of her Prozac.. My question is.. IF this is true.. why wasn't she being monitored while she was on this medication? With the recent pill trading fad and whatnot.. why weren't the pills distributed to her by her GP's, and she was watched while she took them? You would think with such a serious medication, her treatment would have been watched and monitored closely.

oh.. IMO.. JMO... MOO..

Great question JL - IF Alyssa stopped her Fluoxetine (Prozac) abruptly, she most likely experienced a terrible withdrawal syndrome that, oftentimes, requires a Dr's attention.

While on Prozac, plasma blood levels can be drawn to determine if therapeutic blood levels have been reached...important to remember that Prozac has not been tested thoroughly on children, so what constitutes a therapeutic blood level is very subjective to the Dr.s., oftentimes coming from interviews with the patient and improved condition.

Plasma blood levels must be taken when drugs that are known to increase or decrease the blood levels of Fluoxetine are added to the regimen. A child can quickly become toxic or begin withdrawal if not properly monitored.

Hopefully Alyssa didn't get her medication from the street and was prescribed them by her Dr. and filled by a pharmacist so side effects could be monitored.

A few of the possible side effects with Prozac are worth noting, especially in Alyssa: agitation, insomnia, abnormal dreams, anxiety, tremor, respiratory problems such as coughing etc

Unfortunately, having medications filled by a pharmacist or given to her by the doctor does not guarantee that she consumed the capsules. Without drawing plasma levels to determine ng/ml there is no way to know other than subjective observation, interview, and patient improvement, that they were actually taken.

The above info. is from my professional experience as a clinical pharmacist and from Facts and Comparisons 2010, pp. 1404-10.

IMO - Let's hope with all our hearts that she received proper care and monitoring.

Just for your info..Drugs.com is a site where you can get accurate information and actually identify a pill/capsule.

 

[Csquare]

Even with this being a high profile case and we know the officials doing everything by the book, the judge or judges do have other cases to hear. Also wouldn't they need some form of records to prove AB's need for immediate transfer? I mean they will not agree to it just based on the attorney's wishes, right? I know and understand that poor AB is having difficulties adjusting to her new home, but!!! Yes my last sentence is me being sarcastic, in my opinion.

Judge Joyce usualy takes these under advisement from my experience with here. I am sure she would have had to see some form of evidence in order to make a fair decision.

 

[JLMcKenna83]

Great question JL - IF Alyssa stopped her Fluoxetine (Prozac) abruptly, she most likely experienced a terrible withdrawal syndrome that, oftentimes, requires a Dr's attention.

While on Prozac, plasma blood levels can be drawn to determine if therapeutic blood levels have been reached...important to remember that Prozac has not been tested thoroughly on children, so what constitutes a therapeutic blood level is very subjective to the Dr.s., oftentimes coming from interviews with the patient and improved condition.

Plasma blood levels must be taken when drugs that are known to increase or decrease the blood levels of Fluoxetine are added to the regimen. A child can quickly become toxic or begin withdrawal if not properly monitored.

Hopefully Alyssa didn't get her medication from the street and was prescribed them by her Dr. and filled by a pharmacist so side effects could be monitored.

A few of the possible side effects with Prozac are worth noting, especially in Alyssa: agitation, insomnia, abnormal dreams, anxiety, tremor, respiratory problems such as coughing etc

Unfortunately, having medications filled by a pharmacist or given to her by the doctor does not guarantee that she consumed the capsules. Without drawing plasma levels to determine ng/ml there is no way to know other than subjective observation, interview, and patient improvement, that they were actually taken.

The above info. is from my professional experience as a clinical pharmacist and from Facts and Comparisons 2010, pp. 1404-10.

Just for your info..Drugs.com is a site where you can get accurate information and actually identify a pill/capsule.

Thank you for your informative post.. I was actually wondering if Alyssa had her blood drawn after she was arrested to see just exactly what she had in her system and at what levels.

As far as the comment I made about her being closely monitored about her intake, I didn't just mean by her doctors and blood samples, I meant that her GP's dole out the dosage and she has to take them in front of them with a sort of mouth check after. Like I said.. serious drugs need serious monitoring, and the Prozac would not have been effective at all if she wasn't taking it as prescribed.


Again.. wonderful post and thank you for your insight. :dance:

 

[vjlaw]

Thank you for your informative post.. I was actually wondering if Alyssa had her blood drawn after she was arrested to see just exactly what she had in her system and at what levels.

As far as the comment I made about her being closely monitored about her intake, I didn't just mean by her doctors and blood samples, I meant that her GP's dole out the dosage and she has to take them in front of them with a sort of mouth check after. Like I said.. serious drugs need serious monitoring, and the Prozac would not have been effective at all if she wasn't taking it as prescribed.


Again.. wonderful post and thank you for your insight. :dance:

Well, she was taken to a children's psychiatric hospital by juvenile authorities the day after her arrest. Surely they did a blood test. jmo

 

[LadyRider]

Judge Joyce usualy takes these under advisement from my experience with here. I am sure she would have had to see some form of evidence in order to make a fair decision.

Thank You, that is what I wanted to think too. I mean AB is at least now being monitored to some degree. I beleive all is to be documented by everyone that has contact with AB. And I also know that pers observations can vary from person to person, but if it is something out of the norm it would be handled as such.

 

[mia g]

I have tried to find a site about Cole County Jail(isnt that where AB would be being held??) and Missouri just does not want people to know much..lol

Our jails have sites, list of prisoners, list of visitation times, what inmates can and can not have mailed, and all kinds of other info..all very handy if you need to see what is up in the jail.. I can not find anything like that for Cole County though??

 

[eyes4crime]

Thank you for your informative post.. I was actually wondering if Alyssa had her blood drawn after she was arrested to see just exactly what she had in her system and at what levels.

As far as the comment I made about her being closely monitored about her intake, I didn't just mean by her doctors and blood samples, I meant that her GP's dole out the dosage and she has to take them in front of them with a sort of mouth check after. Like I said.. serious drugs need serious monitoring, and the Prozac would not have been effective at all if she wasn't taking it as prescribed.


Again.. wonderful post and thank you for your insight. :dance:

I have no idea what her dose/day was - one 10- 20mg cap. once or twice a day would be hard to monitor, especially in an adolescent. Those who don't like the side effects are known to 'cheek' their meds, especially prisoners and adolescents. Hopefully the clinic she was being seen at has something in place for such behavior. They get very good at it! moo

 

[Jodibug]

mia g... she is actually being held in the Morgan County jail. Cole County did not have room for her. Cole County is currently building a new jail because we spend a ton of money having prisoners housed elsewhere.

 

[mia g]

mia g... she is actually being held in the Morgan County jail. Cole County did not have room for her. Cole County is currently building a new jail because we spend a ton of money having prisoners housed elsewhere.

Nope no info I can find on that jail either..except they got a new rec area in 06..lol

 

[mia g]

EYES,, am I correct in in thinking that when it comes to side effects of medications, they pretty much have to place a warninf for EVERY side effect reported while someone takes said med??? That is what I was taught, but honestly did not know if that was true!?!?!

 

[Prof]

Nope no info I can find on that jail either..except they got a new rec area in 06..lol

All I found on the place is that it is called Morgan County Corrections, and that it has 91 beds - I found this information through the MO Sheriffs' site http://www.mosheriffs.com/view_county.php?name=Morgan

According to the Sunshine Review, Morgan County has no official website and gets an "F" lol
http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/Morgan_County,_Missouri