MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #5

[concernedmamaof2]

Hello all.

New here as well, (thanks to the mods for helping with my account set up). I'm a local to the area, but did not know Elizabeth or AB, but I can tell you, this is rocking our community. I am still having trouble coming to grips with it.

Like Bibliophile has said, it's a very close-knit community and rumors and facts are very inter-mingled. My children are not school-aged but I work with many people who have kids that went to school with Elizabeth and with AB, so we all know exactly who she is. I've tried to not think about this, because, quite frankly, it terrifies me, but somehow, I can't get it out of my mind. I found this site a week ago when trying to find more information and have been lurking since, so I figure it was time that I posted.

I did not attend the visitation or the funeral, even though it was open to the public. Honestly, I didn't feel it was my place, and I didn't think I could handle it. However, my heart goes out to all family and friends of Elizabeth. I cannot imagine what they are going through, or what AB's family and friends are feeling.

I do hope that AB is tried as an adult. I do not however think that a fair trial is to be had in Cole County. Whether or not I think she should get a fair trial is irrelavant.

I think the nail was hit on the head earlier with how children are raised these days. Too many people neglect their kids, abuse them, let them do whatever they want. That still isn't any excuse for what this 15 year old did. No matter how you are raised or how sick you may be, there is still a line, and it was crossed.

 

[Kimster]

There's always the possibility that she had help. Two people could get a lot more accomplished than one in 45 min.

LE might feel as you do. I read a post from a media site that said her BF's home was searched. This has NOT been reported by a reliable source and the only reason I bring it up is that her BF has NOT been arrested. That leads me to believe she may have truly done this on her own.

 

[Kimster]

Hi Concernedmamaof2! Thank you for your local insight. I hope that by sharing our feelings about this tragedy, you can find some sense of peace. My prayers go out to your community!!!

 

[Capri]

LE might feel as you do. I read a post from a media site that said her BF's home was searched. This has NOT been reported by a reliable source and the only reason I bring it up is that her BF has NOT been arrested. That leads me to believe she may have truly done this on her own.

If she did it on her own, I hope she fesses up to it, so that innocent friends don't go down with her.

 

[Capri]

:Welcome-12-june: ConcernedMamaof2!

 

[SondraK]

My chilldren were raised in the 60's. I was a single mom for a number of those years and when I wasn't, I remained the main disciplinarian. When my boys threw rocks at a car, they carried a rock around for 24 hours. I checked every hour or so to be sure they still had it and reminded them that if they liked rocks, they should enjoy carrying it.
When my son took to spitting at his siblings, he had to sit at the table and spit a bowl full before he could get up. "You like to spit, so spit" He got cotton mouth real quick and I had to turn him loose after about an hour. He didn't spit again.

I swatted bottoms when I could come up with no other means.

When my daughter carved her name in my cedar chest, while she was being punished in her room, I taught her a valuable lesson about anger. When I went to let her out of her room, I told her that I was no longer angry with her for what she did so I would let her come out. Then I asked if she were still angry with me. Of course, she said "no" and I asked how she was going to take back the scratches in the cedar chest. We compromised when I saw how crushed she was and used a scarf to cover the top. But she remembers that to this day.

Parents do not have to "beat" their children, but I feel we should retain the option of corporal punishment without being threatened to be turned in for abuse as my 6 year old grandson is known to do. "You can't hit me. That's abuse" grrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Jules71]

Thanks...I went to AB's MySpace last night (took me long time to sleuth that info) LOL and my sons best friend came up as one of the three on the bottom. But his friend is 34 and lives in the Pacific Northwest so you can be sure Im going to be calling my son today and asking a whole lot of questions!!

Sorry if this has already been answered - I am just catching up this morning. The profiles at the bottom are people you may know or find interesting - not the person who's profile is private.

 

[Prof]

Morning
Just checked out the you tubes and man the kids seemed to have a lot of extras. Pool, pooltable, workout equipment, techno stuff...
Does anyone know the ages of the GPs?
Listening to AB she sounds aggressive, bossy and dominating!

Hi SDW...the gps are 53 and 62. (Both on second or third marriage). The bio mother is 30, and bio father is 35. That means the mother had AB at around 15.

yes, AB was a bossy little 13 year old...with a slightly sadistic side. I still do not see a neglected, or underpriveledged child here.

Her gps had some nice horse property both in CA and MO. I am pretty sure they moved to MO about 5 years ago, and I am somewhat sure they have been involved in their grandchildren's lives since they were born.

 

[Bibliophile]

There is a HUGE HUGE HUGE factor that we have failed to catch and just occured to me this mornong when re-reaeding the posts from last night. She may have been a drug/alcohol baby. I strongly suspect tha is the case as mom and dad are proven drug users.

You've made a very good point and one that will probably be used by the defense.

 

[paris_paris]

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how AB had time to commit this horrific crime, especially if the rumor stuff is true. 45 minutes is not a whole lot of time to lure someone into the woods, do unspeakable acts to them, murder them, do more unspeakable acts and then get them buried, even if the hole *was* pre-dug.

I think it is likely that since Elizabeth was friends with AB's sister she somewhat trusted AB and that may be how she was "lured" into the woods. . . I don't think AB could've dragged her, dead or alive, into those woods. AB doesn't look big or strong enough to drag a child that size.

I wonder if AB intentionally led investigators to the body or if they watched her closely and caught her going back to the scene of the crime like so many criminals do. If AB is sick as it seems she is, it wouldn't be unlikely she would return to spend more time at the scene.

I've wondered a lot about the specific time that Elizabeth left the friends house. I know it said her Mom called her on the cell and told her she needed to come home. Why the cell? Why not call the friend's house? Was the cell call an actual call or a text message? If she sent Elizabeth a text to come home, and Elizabeth replied, there's no telling for sure that it was Elizabeth or AB that replied back.

See where I'm going with this?

 

[Sassygerl]

I've wondered a lot about the specific time that Elizabeth left the friends house. I know it said her Mom called her on the cell and told her she needed to come home. Why the cell? Why not call the friend's house? Was the cell call an actual call or a text message? If she sent Elizabeth a text to come home, and Elizabeth replied, there's no telling for sure that it was Elizabeth or AB that replied back.

See where I'm going with this?

I always call my kids cell phones and not the friends house when I need them to come home. I've never considered it wasn't them texting...that's a new thought.

 

[paris_paris]

I always call my kids cell phones and not the friends house when I need them to come home. I've never considered it wasn't them texting...that's a new thought.

My step-daughter has unlimited text on her phone. We rarely purchase airtime for her... only if she's going to be away on a trip.

 

[danni]

Why not call the friend's house?

I know this doesn't really answer your question but I can tell you that I myself, NEVER call someones home unless they don't have a cell phone. I myself don't have a home phone. I don't have a need for it. It is a bill with no use to me. I use my cell phone for everything and it is cheaper than having a home phone and calling long distance. I am going to assume that the whole family was on the same plan they had mobile to mobile which with most plans doesn't cost anything. Where as calling the friends house would have. Plus why pull GM away from what she was doing when she could have called E herself. ya know. Kinda cutting the middle man out.

 

[Capri]

Has Elizabeht's family ever said how long Elizabeth was over at the neighbor house? Since school let out, or did she just go over to "play" for some shorter amount of time?

 

[milliac]

Because I was raised in an alcoholic home, I went to a few parenting seminars to learn better skills with my boys. Many were invaluable and one I'd like to point out to you who have youngsters now is the "Love and Logic" approach. I applied what I learned and my boys are both goal-oriented adults. One is a sophomore in a well-known college and the other a manager for a building company. The college kid has Asperger's Syndrome and used to speak on behalf of AS when he was a senior in high school.

The basic thing I learned and followed was to be sure you give consequences to your kids that fit their age. Follow through. And love love love them. I gave them freedoms in stages, based on how they were able to handle the freedom given prior. I hope that makes sense and if it helps just one parent who read my post, I'll be forever grateful.

I totally agree with you. I took the Love & Logic series about 10 years ago and it was very helpful. I wish my husband would take it, and I would love a refresher course.

 

[Jules71]

I've wondered a lot about the specific time that Elizabeth left the friends house. I know it said her Mom called her on the cell and told her she needed to come home. Why the cell? Why not call the friend's house? Was the cell call an actual call or a text message? If she sent Elizabeth a text to come home, and Elizabeth replied, there's no telling for sure that it was Elizabeth or AB that replied back.

See where I'm going with this?

Yes, I see where you are going with this. AB could have had E out in the woods and started this whole thing well before 6:15 - if those calls were in fact text messages. That could very well be the case!

 

[Jules71]

I really think she acted alone. I do not think her bf is involved. And.... I do think her gp's suspected AB might be involved from the beginning but didn't want to believe it could be possible. I think it is very likely those calls to/from E's mom were text msgs.

I am definitely convinced she has negatively influenced her younger brothers. They need to get help right away.

 

[Raebie]

What has had me puzzled is this. She was pretty darn close to home and supposedly at someone's house that the parents trusted. The call was made for her to come home at 6:15. The cops were called at 7:00. Now I am an overprotective mom, but that seems like an incredibly quick call. Let's assume 15 minutes to get herself going and make the walk. That would be a 6:30 arrival time. Did Elizabeth's mom have reason to suspect something was up that would precipitate a call to the cops that quickly? Did they spend any time looking for her first?

 

[Bibliophile]

I've wondered a lot about the specific time that Elizabeth left the friends house. I know it said her Mom called her on the cell and told her she needed to come home. Why the cell? Why not call the friend's house? Was the cell call an actual call or a text message? If she sent Elizabeth a text to come home, and Elizabeth replied, there's no telling for sure that it was Elizabeth or AB that replied back.

See where I'm going with this?

Yes and they are things to think about. What did LE or the press specify? Did they say "called" or something more ambiguous like "contacted by cell phone?"

On the other hand, I think AB had plenty of time to do what she intended to do, especially if she had done preparation beforehand. Someone else mentioned that they thought she was killed at that site - I agree. I think its possible AB offered to walk her home because of her fear of the dark or followed her and/or led or forced her there, possibly at knifepoint.

Remember LE has said that Elizabeth was killed around the time the call was placed and that location was "several hundred yards" from the house. I'm guessing 10 to 20 minutes to get to the location and less time for AB to get back.

LE would also spend some time with Elizabeth's mother getting info.

 

[Jules71]

What has had me puzzled is this. She was pretty darn close to home and supposedly at someone's house that the parents trusted. The call was made for her to come home at 6:15. The cops were called at 7:00. Now I am an overprotective mom, but that seems like an incredibly quick call. Let's assume 15 minutes to get herself going and make the walk. That would be a 6:30 arrival time. Did Elizabeth's mom have reason to suspect something was up that would precipitate a call to the cops that quickly? Did they spend any time looking for her first?

Interesting thought. I also thought it was quick to call police. I am trying to put myself in her shoes and wonder if I would call that quickly. I know there have been times when my son didn't come home when he was supposed to and I got in my car and searched the neighborhood first.