MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #6

[Salem]

I mean, she is with E and lil sis in the woods, sends lil sis back part way alone, then does this crime - and then splits before LE gets around to questioning the residence she was last seen at? Did lil sis tell LE that she and AB were in the woods with E?

Jules - where are you seeing info that lil sis was with AB & E in the woods? Did I miss some updates? If a link is posted, can you tell me how many pages back, about? and I'll go look for it.

TIA,

Salem

 

[Jules71]

Jules - where are you seeing info that lil sis was with AB & E in the woods? Did I miss some updates? If a link is posted, can you tell me how many pages back, about? and I'll go look for it.

TIA,

Salem

ILC told us today (pretty sure it was today) that the 3 of them were playing in the woods, that the 6 yo wasn't allowed in the woods by gp's - and that AB walked little sis back within site of the house so she could go home.

 

[Kimster]

I didn't see anything that said lil sis was in the woods either. In fact, I read on a blog elsewhere that AB sent lil sis in the house and somehow talked Elizabeth into returning before she got home.

 

[Kimster]

ILC told us today (pretty sure it was today) that the 3 of them were playing in the woods, that the 6 yo wasn't allowed in the woods by gp's - and that AB walked little sis back within site of the house so she could go home.

:doh: I TOTALLY MISSED THAT.

 

[calamityjane]

I respectfully disagree with that. Help is there. If you are given an egg, there are many things you can do with that egg. If you decide to throw that egg away, then you must not have wanted that egg very much.

I have seen several inmates medicated to the point of them being zombies. We called it the THORIZINE(sp)SHUFFLE. It was easy to tell due to the old saying the lights are on but no one is home.

I agree with you but if you noticed, I said there is help but it's considered self-help when they have to reach out and take that egg. I know there are jobs but they have to want to work. They can work only if they get their GED...again, they have to want to help themselves. If they want college courses, they have to do the work to get the materials to pay for them...again, I consider all of that self-help. I have seen very few prisons who reach out to help the inmates. I'm not complaining about it but it just is what it is. My friend wanted to work so he got his GED, he worked himself up to a position of trust, he didn't get involved with all of the politics, he didn't get into trouble so he was placed in the honor wing, and he is self educated by reading all of the time. That is good and I hope AB decides to go in a similar direction.

As for the thorazine, I've often suspected the boarding schools in Missouri to resort to that type of control. I didn't know they used it in the prisons but nothing really surprises me any more. I've been slightly jaded to the realities of human depravity. I've seen it from both sides of the fence. I have no doubt that you are like me in that way. I can only imagine what you've been exposed to in that environment. Did you say you are still a CO?

 

[Jules71]

ILC told us today (pretty sure it was today) that the 3 of them were playing in the woods, that the 6 yo wasn't allowed in the woods by gp's - and that AB walked little sis back within site of the house so she could go home.

I am looking for it but can't find it now. Am I crazy? Who else remembers this from today?

 

[Csquare]

I would doubt that the 6 yr old would be able to lie. Remember the ballon boy? He is the first one to admit it was a hoax. IMHO it is more likely that AB called EO back and somehow lured her into the woods.

 

[lightlady]

I remember it as well. There was possibly a post deleted because it had a name in it.. maybe that was it?

 

[Jules71]

I remember it as well. There was possibly a post deleted because it had a name in it.. maybe that was it?

Could have been the one that was deleted. But for sure, ILC said the 3 of them had been in the woods and that gp's didn't allow 6 yo in the woods and that AB walked her back within sight of the house. It then sounded to me like lil sis went on home and AB and E were still out in the woods.

 

[Jules71]

I would doubt that the 6 yr old would be able to lie. Remember the ballon boy? He is the first one to admit it was a hoax. IMHO it is more likely that AB called EO back and somehow lured her into the woods.

I could see the 6 yo lying to GP's about being in the woods, but if LE questioned her, I don't think she could lie.

 

[danni]

My guess and this is only my quess is this....

They do not HAVE to have someone special come in to "question" a minor. If a child is of a certain age the can actual be given their Miranda rights and questioned just like any adult. A child (I think under the age of 16) has to have a parent or guardian present. Police will read then BOTH their Miranda rights and the two of them can choose to talk, or they can lawyer up and ask that their s/he be present for any questioning.

Here is where my "guess" comes into play.

My guess is they had suspicion of her when she skipped school and went missing THURSDAY, then showed up at school to talk to her BF, and was seen by the staff member. Since I am sure they do not deal with many "child killers" in Jefferson City, when they noticed this odd behavior on THURSDAY they planned the meeting and made arrangements for someone to come in FRIDAY morning that is specialized in quesitoning juveniles. People that are trained to question juveniles can pick the brain of this age group better. Therefore they wanted someone qualified to talk to her so they could get what they wanted/needed out of her and not have a person that is use to talking to adults do the job and not get anything out of her.


My question is when did they question the rest of the family and she wasn't there? Was that just general questioning Wednesday evening when LE was first called, or did they later question the family Thursday and she was not present for that?

If she was missing from general questioning Wednesday evening right after LE showed up there is a possibility that she was still in the woods. EXP. if Elizabeth's mom INSISTED she was scared of the woods and that she would not have went back there. If they were looking at this from a missing person point of view and thought she might have wondered off they might not have went into the woods right away. Instead opting to search the area between the two houses, the route she would have walked home for clues to her disappearance.

Again these are all thoughts that have ran through MY head.

 

[Elley Mae]

I would imagine they were interested in her simply because she was the last child/teen known to be playing with E....the 6 year old would have said Elizabeth and AB were playing in the woods and sent me home, or something similar. Given her probably easily accessible background...plus whatever "talk" floats around the community, I would imagine gravitated them towards her, imo.
I could definitely see them search her room taking her diary. Just a freak thing that she would be cocky/stupid enough to write what she had done.
Still don't understand that delay tho....even if they read that E was dead, there's always the chance that AB hadn't finished the job, or that an animal/the elements would destroy evidence around her body.
I'm thinking they didn't get around to the diary until Friday.
sigh.

Is this what you saw?

 

[Csquare]

I agree with you but if you noticed, I said there is help but it's considered self-help when they have to reach out and take that egg. I know there are jobs but they have to want to work. They can work only if they get their GED...again, they have to want to help themselves. If they want college courses, they have to do the work to get the materials to pay for them...again, I consider all of that self-help. I have seen very few prisons who reach out to help the inmates. I'm not complaining about it but it just is what it is. My friend wanted to work so he got his GED, he worked himself up to a position of trust, he didn't get involved with all of the politics, he didn't get into trouble so he was placed in the honor wing, and he is self educated by reading all of the time. That is good and I hope AB decides to go in a similar direction.

As for the thorazine, I've often suspected the boarding schools in Missouri to resort to that type of control. I didn't know they used it in the prisons but nothing really surprises me any more. I've been slightly jaded to the realities of human depravity. I've seen it from both sides of the fence. I have no doubt that you are like me in that way. I can only imagine what you've been exposed to in that environment. Did you say you are still a CO?

No I got hurt at work in dec of 07 and can not be cleared to work w/o restrictions. I really miss it.

 

[CementPond]

I remember it. He said that the 6 year old wasn't allowed in the woods so AB walked her to just the edge of the woods to where she could see the house and she went home. AB went back into the woods, where I assume EO was still at. He also said (or someone else did) that, from where EO was found, you could see the house. That she wasn't that far from it.

I am looking for it but can't find it now. Am I crazy? Who else remembers this from today?

 

[rosiebean]

I don't have much infomation on the case because you guys have done an excellent job. What I have been told secondhand (I think I read that secondhand is not considered a rumour) is some timeline information. The three girls, EO, AB and the 6 yr old, were playing in the woods (the 6 yr. old is not allowed in the woods by the grandparents). AB brought the 6 yr. old up to the point that the house could be seen and had her walk the rest of the way herself. AB then went back in the woods. The 6 year old arrived back at the house between 6 and 6:15. I think this is where the time of she went missing is coming from.

Long time lurker...here's the quote, not from ILC, and IMO not reliable information at this point.

 

[Jules71]

Could have been the one that was deleted. But for sure, ILC said the 3 of them had been in the woods and that gp's didn't allow 6 yo in the woods and that AB walked her back within sight of the house. It then sounded to me like lil sis went on home and AB and E were still out in the woods.

I can totally see it playing out like this...
AB dug the grave ahead of time
then she took the girls back in the woods to act on her plan
and sent the lil sis back home first
the GP's never knew E was there at all

 

[calamityjane]

Here's my take for what it's worth. I think EO did something to totally tick off AB. It could be that EO saw something she did or something that AB or the boyfriend did to EO. EO threatened to tell, AB was upset, scared, or even jealous of something or someone who was giving EO attention, and AB killed her to protect herself or her bf. It would be interesting to see if the bf has a criminal record or if he's ever been suspected of child endangerment. This is one sick world we live in and with the abundance of child *advertiser censored* on the internet, child predators are everywhere and all ages. Just my thoughts...

 

[Jules71]

My guess and this is only my quess is this....

They do not HAVE to have someone special come in to "question" a minor. If a child is of a certain age the can actual be given their Miranda rights and questioned just like any adult. A child (I think under the age of 16) has to have a parent or guardian present. Police will read then BOTH their Miranda rights and the two of them can choose to talk, or they can lawyer up and ask that their s/he be present for any questioning.

Here is where my "guess" comes into play.

My guess is they had suspicion of her when she skipped school and went missing THURSDAY, then showed up at school to talk to her BF, and was seen by the staff member. Since I am sure they do not deal with many "child killers" in Jefferson City, when they noticed this odd behavior on THURSDAY they planned the meeting and made arrangements for someone to come in FRIDAY morning that is specialized in quesitoning juveniles. People that are trained to question juveniles can pick the brain of this age group better. Therefore they wanted someone qualified to talk to her so they could get what they wanted/needed out of her and not have a person that is use to talking to adults do the job and not get anything out of her.


My question is when did they question the rest of the family and she wasn't there? Was that just general questioning Wednesday evening when LE was first called, or did they later question the family Thursday and she was not present for that?

If she was missing from general questioning Wednesday evening right after LE showed up there is a possibility that she was still in the woods. EXP. if Elizabeth's mom INSISTED she was scared of the woods and that she would not have went back there. If they were looking at this from a missing person point of view and thought she might have wondered off they might not have went into the woods right away. Instead opting to search the area between the two houses, the route she would have walked home for clues to her disappearance.

Again these are all thoughts that have ran through MY head.

I am assuming it was the casual Wed night questioning she was not present for - because ILC said they wanted to question her Thurs morning but was no where to be found.

 

[danni]

But if this was a "thrill kill" or a murder of opportunity. I think that we could very well be talking about "little suzy square pants" that lives three blocks down the road in the other direction.

 

[Jules71]

But if this was a "thrill kill" or a murder of opportunity. I think that we could very well be talking about "little suzy square pants" that lives three blocks down the road in the other direction.

Not sure I understand what you mean.