MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #8

[Bibliophile]

Well, I'd say it would take a trip to the courthouse to get records and I don't think it would tell us much. Because I will bet they had one ready in case they needed it and as someone said earlier, to dot i and cross ts. They never know when someone is going to stop cooperating.

I think if there would have been an application for a warrant, the national, state or local press would have known about it that day and would have reported such.

They may/may not have had one ready but didn't need it because the grandparents allowed the search voluntarily - which also confirms what I was told.

 

[impianoteach]

Ultimately she is not an adult... according to the government. Even if she is "tried" as an adult, states that have the death penalty will not execute a minor. So right there it's not the same. This is one sick girl. She will get some sort of insanity plea, that's my opinion. She may be sentenced to life, but in a mental facility. A life prison sentence for this obviously deranged girl is no better than the death penalty for her, which I agree is inhumane. Sure, every crime deserves justice but some of us were given WAY more of a chance than others. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about some major physical/psychological/sexual abuse after this is over. I'd put 2/1 odds on all three. She was basically surrounded by career criminals. How many of you can say you were raised that way. Mom on drugs, dad a scofflaw in about every way possible, EO's dad and brother pretty much preparing for a Waco... how would you have seen the world? This girl needs help to have any kind of reasonable existence. Otherwise, you may as well put her in the chair. But like I said earlier... we can't.

What the Supreme Court is debating is if LWOP constitututes cruel and unusual punishment for a juvenile. What AB did to Elizabeth does constitute cruel and unusual punishment and sadly enough, will last for a lifetime. Elizabeth will get no parole from death. Why should society even consider one day of freedom for AB?

 

[Tricia]

Forgive me if this is not inside information anymore. But, according to my source, AB was on a three day drug spree
and wrote all about her plans to kill in her journal.

This comes from a source I trust. My source has a source where the info came from. I do not know the other source. Just FYI.

I must add a disclaimer that I can't confirm this 100 percent. All I can say is I trust my source and my source trusts their source.

Going to bed.

Goodnight.
Tricia

 

[MDATCA]

Forgive me if this is not inside information anymore. But, according to my source, AB was on a three day drug spree
and wrote all about her plans to kill in her journal.

This comes from a source I trust. My source has a source where the info came from. I do not know the other source. Just FYI.

I must add a disclaimer that I can't confirm this 100 percent. All I can say is I trust my source and my source trusts their source.

Going to bed.

Goodnight.
Tricia

I don't believe that we have discussed the idea of her being on drugs at the time of the murder. That adds yet another twist.

Does your source know what drugs she had been using? I would guess meth as it seems to be the drug of choice in the area.

"Meth binges can last up to two weeks. The user is then driven into a severe depression followed by paranoia and aggression (known as tweaking). When heavy cocaine users experience paranoia, it almost always disappears once the binge ends. With Meth, severe mood disturbances, bizarre thoughts and behavior may last for days - sometimes weeks - and the user loses a grip on reality."

Combine that with prozac and who knows what is going on in her. I just can't believe that her GM wouldn't recognize the signs of that after all the problems with MLB and meth. I would think even AuntKNP and RP would. I sure hope that her younger sibs stay away from drugs.

 

[crimecurious]

Yes, I've heard about the 3 days of drugs many times. But I was not able to confirm it 100%. Nor have I been able to confirm the type of drug. My best "guess" at this point is Meth. And yes, that's just a guess, I seriously don't know. I believe I posted this as "rumor" in one of the 1st treads of which I had a bunch of posts removed before local rumors were allowed.

I also have wondered if she was abusing the antidepressants or ADHDs if she was in fact taking them. That could also be called a "drug-binge". Prescription drug abuse at JCHS seems to the the "in thing" right now.

 

[gliving]

Wow. How could a 15 y/o go on a three day binge in a house full of kids, without anyone taking a notice? Was she even in school that week?

Sorry, but KB seems oblivious to what was happening in her home. She doesn't work outside the home so most likely she was there. What was she doing that all this could go on without her having a clue?

 

[crimecurious]

Sounds like AB was holed up in her room writing in her diary... :furious:

 

[crimecurious]

Oh and digging holes in the woods...

 

[MommyInHighHeels]

The alleged use of drugs by AB does not surprise me in the least, as I am sure it doesn't any of you. I know drug use is prevalent in most parts of the country, but according to RP, when posting his thoughts on Jefferson City...

"There is nothing to do but party with the local rednecks, or get high, or hang out with friends. There is no night life, and nothing for a minor to do."

He continues with...

"90% of the native population are mall rats at some point in their life, or parking lot partiers."

He also mentions in the very beginning of his JC summary...

"Fairly violent underground for a city of its small population."


Of course, I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge of that area, so I cannot comment on how accurate his perceptions are or are not.

 

[PeriodicalCuriosity]

Just in case you're interested:

from: http://milehighmethproject.com/mentalHealth.htm

Also, for those with more serious mental health conditions (i.e. schizophrenia or psychosis), their symptoms actually get more severe when they get high.
Methamphetamine is not a "cure" for mental health problems. It can’t fix the root causes of these problems. In fact, using crystal regularly may only worsen the underlying issues or mask them completely. Regular crystal use can also interfere with your ability to take psychiatric medications as prescribed. And crystal can have harmful interactions with many psych meds as well. All of these issues simply complicate mental health conditions.
How does crystal interact with psych meds or anti depressants? Crystal meth certainly interacts with plenty of psychiatric medications. Some of these interactions may be severe or even fatal. Therefore it is critical that you discuss your crystal use with your health care provider so any harmful combinations can be avoided.
While there are many psych meds that interact with crystal, some of the most common are anti-depressants:
MonoAmine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAO’s) – Nardil, Parnate, Eldepryl
Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) – Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil
Tricyclic anti-depressants – Elavil, Ventyl, Norpramine, Desyrel, Tofranil

 

[MommyInHighHeels]

http://primewriter.com/news-1246-headlines/?p=172

"It is unclear whether the teen will be charged as an adult, but already forensic psychologists have pegged her as a psychopath and have given her a quick diagnosis of anti-social personality."

 

[LadyBug99]

Do we know any more about AB's BF? Is he in custody or just removed from school by his parents? Would the BF be with AB on this drug binge? If so I would have to believe that he may have known about this plan to murder EO...JMO

 

[steph572]

The alleged use of drugs by AB does not surprise me in the least, as I am sure it doesn't any of you. I know drug use is prevalent in most parts of the country, but according to RP, when posting his thoughts on Jefferson City...

"There is nothing to do but party with the local rednecks, or get high, or hang out with friends. There is no night life, and nothing for a minor to do."

He continues with...

"90% of the native population are mall rats at some point in their life, or parking lot partiers."

He also mentions in the very beginning of his JC summary...

"Fairly violent underground for a city of its small population."


Of course, I have absolutely zero first-hand knowledge of that area, so I cannot comment on how accurate his perceptions are or are not.

Unfortunately, RP is right about that. I grew up just a very short distance from EO's home. There really isn't much for juveniles to do in JC. JC has a roller rink but the last time I was there it was in such disrepair that there were actually traffic cones on the rink floor to keep people off of the "hills" in the floor. One corner (in front of the DJ stand) could be likened to trying to roller skate on a gravel road.

And the kids can't even be "mall rats" anymore. The Capital Mall enacted a new policy a couple years ago banning anyone 16 or younger without adult supervision after 4 p.m. on weekends. From their website, "Parental Guidance Required Program:
Capital Mall is committed to providing an enjoyable shopping experience for all guests. We require that those 16 and under be accompanied by a parent or supervising adult age 21 or older after 4:00pm on Fridays and Saturdays. Exceptions to the policy will include unannounced tour, school or athletic team groups with organized adult supervision for Cafe Court dining only, at the discretion of the mall management team."

About the only thing that comes to mind in terms of entertainment for the juveniles is the movie theatre, complete with it's own JCPD officer on duty. Of course, none of this is an excuse for what AB did, just an observation.

 

[MDATCA]

I am interested in knowing what the history of the courts that will most likely have juristiction is in punishment for crimes commited in a drugged state of mind. I have read abouted horrific cases where the perp will undergo intensive drug and pysch rehab then get released as "fixed". Many times these same people would have gotten much worse punishment had they not been on drugs.

I have never felt this is fair because they made a choice to break a law...drugs then while high they break another and they get less than if a sober person did the same crime. I understand the logic that they only did it because of the drug whereas a sober person had their facilities when they commited the crime but it still doesn't seem just.

 

[tlcya]

Unfortunately, RP is right about that. I grew up just a very short distance from EO's home. There really isn't much for juveniles to do in JC. JC has a roller rink but the last time I was there it was in such disrepair that there were actually traffic cones on the rink floor to keep people off of the "hills" in the floor. One corner (in front of the DJ stand) could be likened to trying to roller skate on a gravel road.

And the kids can't even be "mall rats" anymore. The Capital Mall enacted a new policy a couple years ago banning anyone 16 or younger without adult supervision after 4 p.m. on weekends. From their website, "Parental Guidance Required Program:
Capital Mall is committed to providing an enjoyable shopping experience for all guests. We require that those 16 and under be accompanied by a parent or supervising adult age 21 or older after 4:00pm on Fridays and Saturdays. Exceptions to the policy will include unannounced tour, school or athletic team groups with organized adult supervision for Cafe Court dining only, at the discretion of the mall management team."

About the only thing that comes to mind in terms of entertainment for the juveniles is the movie theatre, complete with it's own JCPD officer on duty. Of course, none of this is an excuse for what AB did, just an observation.

wow, this post just reminded me of a movie my brother and I saw and fell in love with as early teens (dating myself here I guess). I believe it was called "Over the Edge" and was about an entire town/suburb full of disenfranchised teens whose parents were all too busy with their own dramas and concerns to watch/raise/guide their children. The teens were stuck in an area where there was NOTHING constructive to do but hang out at the youth center. I remember relating to the teens plight in the movie but looking back at it as an adult I realize how violently things ended in the movie.

Not making excuses for AB in the least, more stating the obvious. If kids are left to their own devices with limited constructive/supervised activity and community involvement you end up with kids finding their own entertainment in drugs, vandalism, etc.

 

[MommyInHighHeels]

Unfortunately, RP is right about that. I grew up just a very short distance from EO's home. There really isn't much for juveniles to do in JC. JC has a roller rink but the last time I was there it was in such disrepair that there were actually traffic cones on the rink floor to keep people off of the "hills" in the floor. One corner (in front of the DJ stand) could be likened to trying to roller skate on a gravel road.

And the kids can't even be "mall rats" anymore. The Capital Mall enacted a new policy a couple years ago banning anyone 16 or younger without adult supervision after 4 p.m. on weekends. From their website, "Parental Guidance Required Program:
Capital Mall is committed to providing an enjoyable shopping experience for all guests. We require that those 16 and under be accompanied by a parent or supervising adult age 21 or older after 4:00pm on Fridays and Saturdays. Exceptions to the policy will include unannounced tour, school or athletic team groups with organized adult supervision for Cafe Court dining only, at the discretion of the mall management team."

About the only thing that comes to mind in terms of entertainment for the juveniles is the movie theatre, complete with it's own JCPD officer on duty. Of course, none of this is an excuse for what AB did, just an observation.

On the same site where I read RP's postings, another poster describing JC mentioned that it was the home of the "Hastings Crew." In summary, that parking lot was the center of quite a few gatherings and fights, of course they seemed to relish their memories of being bullies in the parking lot.

 

[tlcya]

Wow, I missed one day people! Sheesh, I missed alot, that was some serious reading to get caught up, lol. Interesting to note, I think ILC either found WS and SM through the same comments posting on a newsite that I did, or perhaps was the poster who mentioned them and just lurked a few days prior to joining/posting, lol. Thanks? in order to ILC, lol. Sorry, just found that funny, the whole thing that led me to this new interest may well have been the biggest fraud on the whole thread, lol ah irony.

 

[bigflaw]

From everything we have seen online, I just don't think AB was a meth-head. Or if she was, I don't think it caused EO's death. I don't think the premeditation in this case is consistent with that. If it was a spur-of-the-moment thing, then maybe. Just my opinion.

 

[tlcya]

From everything we have seen online, I just don't think AB was a meth-head. Or if she was, I don't think it caused EO's death. I don't think the premeditation in this case is consistent with that. If it was a spur-of-the-moment thing, then maybe. Just my opinion.

I agree, based on the information available right now (indications of premeditiation, timelines offered thus far, etc) I just don't see the meth angle. If she was "high" while committing the crime I don't know that meth would be the drug. From what I have heard about that particular drug people tend to be very paranoid and hide out from others, so I don't buy that she was high on meth while committing the murder. If she was indeed a meth user, I can see her coming up with the idea to commit murder but do not see her performing the act itself while on the drug. Besides, perhaps I have bought into the media potrayal of meth abuse but don't meth heads tend to have some very specific physical appearances? I have never heard of a "casual" meth user. It is my understanding that once you are using, it spirals out of control very quickly hence becoming very physically identifiable very soon.

 

[MDATCA]

I agree, based on the information available right now (indications of premeditiation, timelines offered thus far, etc) I just don't see the meth angle. If she was "high" while committing the crime I don't know that meth would be the drug. From what I have heard about that particular drug people tend to be very paranoid and hide out from others, so I don't buy that she was high on meth while committing the murder. If she was indeed a meth user, I can see her coming up with the idea to commit murder but do not see her performing the act itself while on the drug. Besides, perhaps I have bought into the media potrayal of meth abuse but don't meth heads tend to have some very specific physical appearances? I have never heard of a "casual" meth user. It is my understanding that once you are using, it spirals out of control very quickly hence becoming very physically identifiable very soon.

I had wondered about that also. The only exposure to meth I have had is through Intervention and Dog the Bounty Hunter and those are all chronic users. That is why I looked up some info and there are different effects of meth depending on usage. If you are on a "binge" as the rumor states then it fits. I would think at her age to say AB is a chronic user would be pushing it. If she had not done this and continued on in life she probably would have become one. I think that AB was still in an "experimental" stage of drug use. She has probably been trying a few different ones in the recent past.