MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #8

[Mojen]

The Niangua! It used to be a huge party river. SO much fun. These days, LE hides in the bushes waiting for people to float by with drugs or alcohol. Sometimes they will make you dump your stuff, sometimes they give you a ticket. It's luck of the draw.

 

[lbminnesota]

Hi, I've been lurking since this case started. I hadn't seen this post before it was deleted. Just a few comments on it: "First" is obviously true since the half sister EPA is only 6 but I thought the speculation was that AuntK worked at MODOT since there is someone by the name of KP working as a secretary there. If ILC is RP then this "First" statement could have been an attempt to protect his wife. I don't think that the "second" statement is true, to the extent it imples that the kids were in MO and the grandparents moved to MO to take care of them. I know that AB and AuntK lived together with GM in Hollister, CA in 2003 at least - where Aunt K played on the San Benito HS tennis team and both Aunt K and AB were involved in equestrian activities. This was before GM obtained guardianship of AB in MO in 2005. Does anyone know when/where GM and GP got married or when they moved to MO? Does anyone know if the "Third" statement is true?

Based on researching the CA morgage transactions, grandparents were married in late 90's and lived in Hollister home. They purchased their current home late 2008 - previous owners were transferred to IA. When you look at MB's first entry in Casenet, there is a non-resident captain in the docket which leads me to believe she moved with them or soon before. At some point, MB was living in public housing in Jefferson City on Buena Vista St. This address is logged as the last known address when issuing summons even though she's given different addresses. She owes the city for unpaid rent. I'm hoping the children didn't live with MB in public housing...not sure if a single person would qualify.

 

[Icekwee]

I'm not sure how the wolf thing comes in, but from some searching I found some online accounts of a couple of AB's family members that use the wolf in some way as well. So I'm not sure what it means to her.

Here are my :twocents: for what its worth but could the whole wolf thing play into AB's fascination with Twilight?? Not sure if anybody else caught onto this but Jacob Black (Twilight character) turns into a wolf.

 

[pghbrandi]

Ok, this will probably sound REALLY stupid, but I hear everyone talking about RP. I can't, for the life of me,(even after reading hints) figure this out!!!

 

[bigflaw]

Here are my :twocents: for what its worth but could the whole wolf thing play into AB's fascination with Twilight?? Not sure if anybody else caught onto this but Jacob Black (Twilight character) turns into a wolf.

Of course it can. As a fan of the story, it would have been in the mind, particularly if she identified with that character in some way. Damn it, now I'm going to have to read these books. :banghead:

 

[MoEquineFan]

Of course it can. As a fan of the story, it would have been in the mind, particularly if she identified with that character in some way. Damn it, now I'm going to have to read these books. :banghead:

They are WELL worth the read, bigflaw!

If you start now you still have time to read the first two books, watch the Twlight movie, and go to the midnight showing of New Moon on Nov 20! :crazy:

 

[Prof]

Ha Ha Dal Gal!

Here is ILC's deleted entry post as someone quoted it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovecookies View Post
First, the "half-sister" does not, and never has worked at MODOT.
Second, the grandparents moved here to take care of the kids.
Third, They had no previous ties to Missouri (before moving to Missouri).
Fourth, Elizabeth Olten's mother has gave 3 different stories on what happened to her daughter. 1st she said The 6 y/o picked up elizabeth to go play. 2nd she said the POI picked her to go play. and the 3rd and most recent story is that elizabeth went over to the house unprompted.
MY THEORY is that elizabeth's mother was high on meth (she is known by the community for doing meth, but has never been busted for it), and either someone offered to take the child, and she said "okay", or the child just left.

Fifth, the police are utterly incompetent here, and AB would have easily gotten away if her grandparents wouldn't have been so helpful in the search for E. In fact, it is my opinion that E would still be "missing" if it wasn't for the grandparents help.

Sixth, everyone wants to know the place of birth for the grandparents, and I have no idea why you want to that but let me help out. They were born in different states. Not in texas, missouri, or california.

Seventh, Elizabeth's mom never called nor texted. Let's think about this rationally for a second. IF the rumors are true about how E was killed, and what was done post mortem, then the murder, ensuing acts, plus burial, would take at least an hour. Police arrived on the scene at 7 pm. E's mom said that she called and talked to E at 6:15. Police went immediately into the woods (lets say 7:10pm). Knowing a few police officers in Kansas City, it is a fact that they wouldn't have shown up with their lights on, so alerting the POI with sirens or flashing lights is out of the question. So assuming that AB was out of the woods before the police showed up at 7:00 pm (which is when they showed up and not when they were called), and that they were called at about 6:45 (response time here is awful). Then there is NO way that E's mom called (supposedly she did so from a home phone) and talked to E at 6:15 because E was already dead.

Eighth, I like turtles was an internet meem that started on youtube, and has NO other meaning.

Ninth, I know for a FACT that a bank cannot foreclose on a house until there is a year of nonpayment, that means that even if the grandparents did vacate the house and skip town (which I seriously doubt they did), there wouldn't be a foreclosure for a while. And if they did vacate the house who is feeding the horses that are still there?

Tenth, LawLady I don't know where you work that you have the ability to obtain tax information, and what was going through your mind when you looked up the tax records of the grandparents. But I would like to know if you knew that is illegal.

Eleventh, The boys are nothing like AB, they have friends, and play sports, and are social butterflies.

Thank you gliving for bumping this post up for us!

It seems evident that this poster has inside information, and as I remember it there was not much discussion about any other adults living or connected to the house (aside from the gps) the aunt before ILC showed up -- I could be wrong

However, IMO this writing is not that close to the writing I have seen on various RP sites, but I am going from memory -- I did not save any, so I cannot really compare the writing fingerprints -- but if it is him, he seems to have matured somewhat

Could it be another person closely connected, even living in the same house?
Seems this poster is fairly touchy about certain records

 

[crimecurious]

Yeah, I might guess one of the the twin bros over RP, LOL

 

[MoEquineFan]

Thank you gliving for bumping this post up for us!

It seems evident that this poster has inside information, and as I remember it there was not much discussion about any other adults living or connected to the house (aside from the gps) the aunt before ILC showed up -- I could be wrong

However, IMO this writing is not that close to the writing I have seen on various RP sites, but I am going from memory -- I did not save any, so I cannot really compare the writing fingerprints -- but if it is him, he seems to have matured somewhat

Could it be another person closely connected, even living in the same house?
Seems this poster is fairly touchy about certain records

Prof, I'm glad you mentioned this. I have always believed ILC is RP but I hadn't thought of comparing his writings on a technical level until I read your comments. Like you, I didn't save anything but there is one posting that is still public. Before I go into that, some of the personality traits in ILC's post were very closely matched to RP's blogs - in addition, many of the "touchy subjects" of ILC's were also touchy subjects in the RP blogs (i.e. religion, KP).

With that said I went back to the one posting I know of that is still public and compared it to his original post. Here are some things I found they have in common:

Placing punctuation after quotation marks:
…call it "Misery".
Post: "okay", or the

Capitalization to show emphasis (fairly common, I’ll give you that):
…She IS fine
Post: for a FACT

Single space after sentence punctuation:
…home Jays. There is
Post: (lets say 7:10pm). Knowing a

Not capitalizing first names:
…That sexy k***** girl
Post: that elizabeth's

I could go on – especially if I had the other postings and blogs that were once on the web! Granted these are small similarities, some of which are quite common. However, I think there are enough of them to show both things could have been written by the same person.

ILC seems intelligent and has a good grasp on proper grammar and punctuation (which makes the comma thing even more relevant) – I think at times he was posting in certain ways to make it seem like he was someone else.

Just my :twocents:

 

[human]

Ok, this will probably sound REALLY stupid, but I hear everyone talking about RP. I can't, for the life of me,(even after reading hints) figure this out!!!

RP is married to the sister of AB's mother. He would be an uncle by marriage.

 

[ynotdivein]

Prof, I'm glad you mentioned this. I have always believed ILC is RP but I hadn't thought of comparing his writings on a technical level until I read your comments. Like you, I didn't save anything but there is one posting that is still public. Before I go into that, some of the personality traits in ILC's post were very closely matched to RP's blogs - in addition, many of the "touchy subjects" of ILC's were also touchy subjects in the RP blogs (i.e. religion, KP).

With that said I went back to the one posting I know of that is still public and compared it to his original post. Here are some things I found they have in common:

Placing punctuation after quotation marks:
…call it "Misery".
Post: "okay", or the

Capitalization to show emphasis (fairly common, I’ll give you that):
…She IS fine
Post: for a FACT

Single space after sentence punctuation:
…home Jays. There is
Post: (lets say 7:10pm). Knowing a

Not capitalizing first names:
…That sexy k***** girl
Post: that elizabeth's

I could go on – especially if I had the other postings and blogs that were once on the web! Granted these are small similarities, some of which are quite common. However, I think there are enough of them to show both things could have been written by the same person.

ILC seems intelligent and has a good grasp on proper grammar and punctuation (which makes the comma thing even more relevant) – I think at times he was posting in certain ways to make it seem like he was someone else.

Just my :twocents:

MEF, Prof, this is an area that I could be helpful in based on my education/experiences. Unfortunately I am a newbie and did not at the time realize the importance of pouncing on leads rather than finishing absorbing threads, and I am still unclear on How To Do Screen Captures. So I lost all his WS posts that were not quoted by others, and never made it to his other potential web presences before they were pulled. And we are discouraged from sleuthing those related to perps/victims, so I won't pursue this.

I will say, however, MEF, your initial comparisons are very on point IMO. Many thanks!

 

[Bibliophile]

Originally Posted by Ilovecookies View Post
First, the "half-sister" does not, and never has worked at MODOT.
Second, the grandparents moved here to take care of the kids.
Third, They had no previous ties to Missouri (before moving to Missouri).
Fourth, Elizabeth Olten's mother has gave 3 different stories on what happened to her daughter. 1st she said The 6 y/o picked up elizabeth to go play. 2nd she said the POI picked her to go play. and the 3rd and most recent story is that elizabeth went over to the house unprompted.
MY THEORY is that elizabeth's mother was high on meth (she is known by the community for doing meth, but has never been busted for it), and either someone offered to take the child, and she said "okay", or the child just left.

Fifth, the police are utterly incompetent here, and AB would have easily gotten away if her grandparents wouldn't have been so helpful in the search for E. In fact, it is my opinion that E would still be "missing" if it wasn't for the grandparents help.

Sixth, everyone wants to know the place of birth for the grandparents, and I have no idea why you want to that but let me help out. They were born in different states. Not in texas, missouri, or california.

Seventh, Elizabeth's mom never called nor texted. Let's think about this rationally for a second. IF the rumors are true about how E was killed, and what was done post mortem, then the murder, ensuing acts, plus burial, would take at least an hour. Police arrived on the scene at 7 pm. E's mom said that she called and talked to E at 6:15. Police went immediately into the woods (lets say 7:10pm). Knowing a few police officers in Kansas City, it is a fact that they wouldn't have shown up with their lights on, so alerting the POI with sirens or flashing lights is out of the question. So assuming that AB was out of the woods before the police showed up at 7:00 pm (which is when they showed up and not when they were called), and that they were called at about 6:45 (response time here is awful). Then there is NO way that E's mom called (supposedly she did so from a home phone) and talked to E at 6:15 because E was already dead.

Eighth, I like turtles was an internet meem that started on youtube, and has NO other meaning.

Ninth, I know for a FACT that a bank cannot foreclose on a house until there is a year of nonpayment, that means that even if the grandparents did vacate the house and skip town (which I seriously doubt they did), there wouldn't be a foreclosure for a while. And if they did vacate the house who is feeding the horses that are still there?

Tenth, LawLady I don't know where you work that you have the ability to obtain tax information, and what was going through your mind when you looked up the tax records of the grandparents. But I would like to know if you knew that is illegal.

Eleventh, The boys are nothing like AB, they have friends, and play sports, and are social butterflies.

I hadn't a chance to read this post before it was apparently deleted. Thanks for bumping it.

I have to say, one of the things that jumps out immediately is the naivete of the author. For example, the statements (#9 & #10) regarding bank foreclosures and tax records, both of which are incorrect, sounds remarkably like something a teenager would say while trying to appear knowledgeable.

Secondly, there is no way, unless the author was a part of the investigating agencies, that he/she could possibly know how many stories EO's mother gave. Even if the author was close to or a part of AB's family they would not have been privy to that information. It also seems like this person doesn't know a lot about children or normal family life.

#7 He/she would have no way of knowing unless they had access to the cell phone records and the rest is pure speculation.

And #11 it appears from the evidence found on the net and discussed on this forum, AB had friends, engaged in worthwhile activities and was apparently at one time on the honor roll.

 

[danni]

MEF, Prof, this is an area that I could be helpful in based on my education/experiences. Unfortunately I am a newbie and did not at the time realize the importance of pouncing on leads rather than finishing absorbing threads, and I am still unclear on How To Do Screen Captures. So I lost all his WS posts that were not quoted by others, and never made it to his other potential web presences before they were pulled. And we are discouraged from sleuthing those related to perps/victims, so I won't pursue this.

I will say, however, MEF, your initial comparisons are very on point IMO. Many thanks!

ynotdivein, to do a screen shot simply

Press Alt and PrtSc at the same time, it will appear that nothing happened.
Then go to a program such as "mspaint" or whatever photo edditing program you might have on your computer, photoshop, or whatever. (I use a program called "Paint.net" you can download it for free online. It is like a suped up version of mspain. Almost like paintshop pro.)
Once in the program simply PASTE, and your screen shot will apear!

So Alt PrtSc, program, paste.

 

[Prof]

Prof, I'm glad you mentioned this. I have always believed ILC is RP but I hadn't thought of comparing his writings on a technical level until I read your comments. Like you, I didn't save anything but there is one posting that is still public. Before I go into that, some of the personality traits in ILC's post were very closely matched to RP's blogs - in addition, many of the "touchy subjects" of ILC's were also touchy subjects in the RP blogs (i.e. religion, KP).

With that said I went back to the one posting I know of that is still public and compared it to his original post. Here are some things I found they have in common:

Placing punctuation after quotation marks:
…call it "Misery".
Post: "okay", or the

Capitalization to show emphasis (fairly common, I’ll give you that):
…She IS fine
Post: for a FACT

Single space after sentence punctuation:
…home Jays. There is
Post: (lets say 7:10pm). Knowing a

Not capitalizing first names:
…That sexy k***** girl
Post: that elizabeth's

I could go on – especially if I had the other postings and blogs that were once on the web! Granted these are small similarities, some of which are quite common. However, I think there are enough of them to show both things could have been written by the same person.

ILC seems intelligent and has a good grasp on proper grammar and punctuation (which makes the comma thing even more relevant) – I think at times he was posting in certain ways to make it seem like he was someone else.

Just my :twocents:

MoEF
Okay you have convinced me! As I said, I had nothing to compare the writing to, and I forgot about the UD site, which has a nice chunk of text; I think the punctuation outside of the quotation marks, and the lc first names are fairly telling combined!

I am not sure what "comma thing" you are referencing, unless you mean after the quotation marks

I notice the similarity of the parentheticals, and I notice in some posts the omission of small words: On his original post here, he states: "2nd she said the POI picked her to go play." (missing "up") On the other site's post: "and being the home Jays." (missing "of the")


(I hope this discussion is allowed; I am confused considering all of the circumstances!)

FYI I have had no period key last few days, sorry!

 

[Prof]

ynotdivein, to do a screen shot simply

Press Alt and PrtSc at the same time, it will appear that nothing happened.
Then go to a program such as "mspaint" or whatever photo edditing program you might have on your computer, photoshop, or whatever. (I use a program called "Paint.net" you can download it for free online. It is like a suped up version of mspain. Almost like paintshop pro.)
Once in the program simply PASTE, and your screen shot will apear!

So Alt PrtSc, program, paste.

You can also paste a screen shot into a Word doc, or PowerPoint; I do it all of the time for work

 

[sdw]

When does Ab go to court again, wasn't it 11/11?

 

[Capri]

Wondering if locals might answer some questions about the Prenger Center, where the 15year old is supposedly in custody. Looking at the website, it says it's a juvenile detention facility and emergency care shelter. Those 2 things seem conflicting to me. How is the center set up?

 

[Capri]

When does Ab go to court again, wasn't it 11/11?

IIRC, it's 11/18

 

[tlcya]

I hadn't seen this line before, but am seriously laughing about it now. Whoever this is has never bought a house obviously, or would know it's readily available as public record.

His lack of knowledge about basic public information access and his tone (that of someone trying very hard to sound older and smarter IMOO) tells me the earlier poster is right. This person sounds young and immature. But, I feel they are close to the case and not just someone yanking our chains. I think they are personally invested somehow.

 

[Dal Gal]

Here are my :twocents: for what its worth but could the whole wolf thing play into AB's fascination with Twilight?? Not sure if anybody else caught onto this but Jacob Black (Twilight character) turns into a wolf.

Has anyone actually seen AB express a personal interest in Twilight? The only relation that I can recall has been FRIENDS of hers who use Forks, WA as their location.

If she was indeed a fan, wow, those Twifans can be rabid with their interest in the stories! I have an adult female friend (43 years old) who is a Twifan and she attends TwiTours and half of her facebook posts involve Twilight.