MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #2

[Sundog]

JW never left the house between Sunday and Tuesday … he was sleeping, and he left his bedroom sporadically?

What actual adult does that....

Someone who has a bad cold or the flu, doesn't go out for a few days, sleeps a lot, sporadically, gets up to go to the bathroom, go to the kitchen, goes back to sleep, etc. If he was hungover pretty badly from the partying then this could be the case.

 

[shotgun09]

Been following here since the story broke. So sad, and confusing. RIP to the deceased.
I must admit, that the toxicology report will give the most answers, and that I am heavily leaning towards additional chemical components. Fentanyl OD is strongly on my suspicious list.
Another very strong possibility IMO, is the more recent street drug problem, "tranq". Or, xylazine. This drug can produce
"zombie" like effects. Videos can be seen all over about the drug and it's effects in Philadelphia, of people slumped over and unable to stand upright or ambulate.

From Google search:
xylazine

Since 2021, Kensington, a low-income neighborhood in North Philadelphia, has been ground zero for a new and dangerous sedative called “tranq”. Also known as “xylazine”, a side-effect of this drug can be struggling to stand upright, which is why users are commonly described in the media as “zombies”.Dec 18, 2023 "

"What is xylazine used for?

It is used on many different animal species such as cattle, sheep, horses, dogs, cats, deer, rats, and elk to calm and facilitate handling, perform diagnostic and surgical procedures, relieve pain, or act as a local anesthetic. "
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/17/tranq-tourism-tiktok-philadelphia-drug-use-xylazine

What if?? These guys partook in taking 'tranq' ( ingested, inhaled or smoked ), hoping for the sedative effect, and instead were overcome with the paralyzing effects? They might have gone outside to get some fresh air and wake their bodies up? Instead, they were all 3 rendered slumped over, unable to stand or walk, and succumbed to hypothermia.
JW ?? Said no, I will just stay slumped over here on my couch...and passed out.

MOO

 

[happyday]

A lot of us. I like my house and all the people and pets I love are here. My husband leaves the house even less. He maybe leaves the house 2 times a week.

Yes, I’m one of them. After my beloved dog died, between internet, work from home, and food delivery services I could go literally weeks on end without stepping outside. I finally got a puppy so I would be forced to do 2-3 x daily walks.

I'm currently on day 14 of having not left the house at all. Anything could be going on in my back garden I wouldn't have a clue (goes to check just in case)

I could be wrong but I felt like the OP meant more about not leaving the bedroom for days, not so much the house. I’d love to not have to leave my house for days, but it’s never possible! I don’t know how you guys are able to, but I get it! But camping out in the bedroom, not even peeking out a window once for days? Odd and more like a teenager IMO than an adult. But I do actually think I believe this guy and I feel bad for him. But some of the behaviors afterward are a bit weird and I think that’s what’s causing so much disbelief by people.

 

[Forest_Wood]

@Forest_Wood
Seen from families' viewpoint, LE PUBLICLY downplaying or denying homicide investigation (if false) may seem cruel.

As others have posted, it's not illegal for LE to withhold info re investigation from the public.

What about LE PRIVATELY disclosing info to families? In doing this LE must be cautious, because some ppl are just plain BLABBERMOUTHS & the next thing ya know, the privately disclosed info is all over soc. media & MSM in a NY min.

The moment it's publicly known to be a homicide investigation (and if someone did cause the death), the killer is on heightened alert, to dispose of evidence, to flee, etc. to avoid apprehension & arrest.

OTOH if LE simply says death investigation, the perp may be less wary.

I see the logic behind LE legally being able to use this technique to help solve crimes, however not in this case. I just can't see LE privately disclosing information to these families since they're all on SM desperately stating they want to know what has occurred. I can't see LE stating definitely this was not a homicide scene just to trick a perpetrator into thinking there would be no further investigation into murder. I am fairly certain a perpetrator would already be on high alert, disposing of any evidence, and wanting to flee, considering 3 people have died unexpectedly. JMO.

 

[al66pine]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Just speaking generally, not to this case.

If ppl leaving a house are already cognitively impaired to some extent (from whatever cause, legal or illegal) they may deliberately go & stay outside in the cold for a while. Getting fresh air, smoking ciggies, smoking cannibis (largely decriminalized in Mo.), taking steet drugs, legal Rx drugs, just yacking, whatever.

IF ALREADY impaired before coming outside and if becoming FURTHER impaired since then, they may begin to suffer from hypothermia without realizing it.

They may not try to engage in attention getting behaviors and escape-attempt actions, even self-rescue actions they could usually easily accomplish.
Maybe, maybe not. IDK what happened in this case.

 

[Elley Mae]

I could be wrong but I felt like the OP meant more about not leaving the bedroom for days, not so much the house. I’d love to not have to leave my house for days, but it’s never possible! I don’t know how you guys are able to, but I get it! But camping out in the bedroom, not even peeking out a window once for days? Odd and more like a teenager IMO than an adult. But I do actually think I believe this guy and I feel bad for him. But some of the behaviors afterward are a bit weird and I think that’s what’s causing so much disbelief by people.

Not sure how I would act/respond with a knock on the door by police and find out 3 of my best friends are dead in my back yard 2 days after watching football game.

I would probably be very confused and not remember every detail from 2 days ago.

Jmo

 

[MeAndYouOutThere]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> Just speaking generally, not to this case.

If ppl leaving a house are already cognitively impaired to some extent (from whatever cause, legal or illegal) they may deliberately go & stay outside in the cold for a while. Getting fresh air, smoking ciggies, smoking cannibis (largely decriminalized in Mo.), taking steet drugs, legal Rx drugs, just yacking, whatever.

IF ALREADY impaired before coming outside and if becoming FURTHER impaired since then, they may begin to suffer from hypothermia without realizing it.

They may not try to engage in attention getting behaviors and escape-attempt actions, even self-rescue actions they could usually easily accomplish.
Maybe, maybe not. IDK what happened in this case.

Yes I agree with you 100%
but to go back to this case we have 3 individuals very close in age who if they were impaired died pretty much at the same time because not even one guy managed to get help....also their cars were there so someone could have gone inside a vehicle to warm up.....my point is they probably ended up in a critical condition really fast for them to at the same time perish without even one of them being able to help the others.....

 

[Vern]

3 men 36 37 and 38 yrs old outside in the cold drunk would probably have been very noisy and neighbors would have heard something especially the first few minutes that they were outside.

Maybe, maybe not. After all as far as I'm aware the three men must have been quiet regardless of the circumstances as no neigbours that I am aware of heard anything and did not notice three men dying right next door in the backyard (or their bodies being dragged outdoors and deposited round the backyard etc).

 

[MeAndYouOutThere]

Maybe, maybe not. After all as far as I'm aware the three men must have been quiet regardless of the circumstances as no neigbours that I am aware of heard anything and did not notice three men dying right next door in the backyard (or their bodies being dragged outdoors and deposited round the backyard etc).

Yes they were quiet because they were dead and it must have come fast....before they were even aware they were in a critical situation

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

My dad got alcohol poisoning a few months ago and he is in his late 30s. Stuff happens.

Just jumping off your post...

Could the three deceased have been drinking a bad batch of homemade moonshine?

Just a thought...

 

[Vern]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Plenty of studies on alcohol impairing one's judgement, ability to reason and react responsibly and rationally exist.

I recall numerous cases of drunken people being found frozen to death here in Canada. Sometimes right in their yards etc when a person comes outside the next morning ... they, nor neighbours having reported hearing the individual fussing while dying.

Study of Hypothermia Finds Link to Alcohol (Published 1982)

www.nytimes.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/father-of-girls-who-froze-to-death-gets-3-years-in-prison-1.840881

This link is distressing. The father was drunk and took his two littles outside with him while intoxicated. He though it was fine outside. They died. He lived.

Autopsy confirms Vermont student found frozen to death was intoxicated

Connor Gage, of Little Falls, New York, was found lying in the snow in a parking lot behind a business in Burlington just before 11am on Saturday. An autopsy confirmed he had been intoxicated.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Teen Passes Out In Subzero Weather After Drinking Game

Teen Passes Out In Subzero Weather After Drinking Game

www.huffpost.com

Fatality inquiries start for young men found dead in cold near Edmonton bar - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

Fatality inquiries began Monday for two young men who were found dead in freezing conditions after leaving an Edmonton nightclub -- one in the winter of 2017 and the other in 2018.

globalnews.ca

Iowa State University student's death shows need for safety measures in freezing weather

Alcohol intoxication can make situations with already dangerously cold weather more treacherous. Here are some ways to stay safe.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Freezing to Death: How It Happens in the US

More than 13,000 US residents froze to death from 2003 to 2013, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC.) The CDC has a name for that, environmental hypothermia.In an attempt to determine just how common that is in the US, CDC researcher Jon Meiman, MD and colleagues...

www.hcplive.com

Minnesota college student freezes to death after falling in creek, passing out in snow following night out drinking: cops

A Minnesota co-ed went drinking at a party, stumbled into a frozen creek and died after she pulled herself out of the water and passed out in a snow-covered wood, police said. Bemidji State Univers…

www.nydailynews.com

Man freezes to death near Brampton schools after night of drinking - Toronto | Globalnews.ca

A coroner has ruled the death of a man found near some schools in Brampton, Ont., as accidental.

globalnews.ca

Lesson: Alcohol and cold (nor freezing temperatures) do NOT mix well.

 

[MeAndYouOutThere]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>. Plenty of studies on alcohol impairing one's judgement, ability to reason and react responsibly and rationally exist.

I recall numerous cases of drunken people being found frozen to death here in Canada. Sometimes right in their yards etc when a person comes outside the next morning ... they, nor neighbours having reported hearing the individual fussing while dying.

Study of Hypothermia Finds Link to Alcohol (Published 1982)

www.nytimes.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/father-of-girls-who-froze-to-death-gets-3-years-in-prison-1.840881

Autopsy confirms Vermont student found frozen to death was intoxicated

Connor Gage, of Little Falls, New York, was found lying in the snow in a parking lot behind a business in Burlington just before 11am on Saturday. An autopsy confirmed he had been intoxicated.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Teen Passes Out In Subzero Weather After Drinking Game

Teen Passes Out In Subzero Weather After Drinking Game

www.huffpost.com

Fatality inquiries start for young men found dead in cold near Edmonton bar - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

Fatality inquiries began Monday for two young men who were found dead in freezing conditions after leaving an Edmonton nightclub -- one in the winter of 2017 and the other in 2018.

globalnews.ca

Iowa State University student's death shows need for safety measures in freezing weather

Alcohol intoxication can make situations with already dangerously cold weather more treacherous. Here are some ways to stay safe.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Freezing to Death: How It Happens in the US

More than 13,000 US residents froze to death from 2003 to 2013, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC.) The CDC has a name for that, environmental hypothermia.In an attempt to determine just how common that is in the US, CDC researcher Jon Meiman, MD and colleagues...

www.hcplive.com

Minnesota college student freezes to death after falling in creek, passing out in snow following night out drinking: cops

A Minnesota co-ed went drinking at a party, stumbled into a frozen creek and died after she pulled herself out of the water and passed out in a snow-covered wood, police said. Bemidji State Univers…

www.nydailynews.com

Man freezes to death near Brampton schools after night of drinking - Toronto | Globalnews.ca

A coroner has ruled the death of a man found near some schools in Brampton, Ont., as accidental.

globalnews.ca

Lesson: Alcohol and cold (nor freezing temperatures) do NOT mix well.

Yes you may be right especially if it's 1 individual we are talking about but when you have 3 individuals what are the odds that 100% of them at the same time will act and react the exact way....no noise nothing...no-one heard anything?!? It's a very intriguing case so far

 

[Auntie Cipation]

A family member mentioned they knew it was after 02:00, as well as JW's lawyer stated that timeline at some point also. When the family member mentioned it, I assumed it meant that someone had been in contact with him (text/phone?) to be able to pinpoint the timing.

Yes, exactly. But unless their messaging including a mention of where he was (indoors vs outside), that doesn't really tell us when they went out. UNLESS his phone was found in the house while he was found outside. My question was whether we know if the men had their phones with them or not.

As mentioned, a sober person would have called for help before succumbing to exposure. But if they were impaired and weren't feeling the cold, not necessarily so.

You'd have to be REALLY wasted to not remember whether the dogs were there or not.

I was thinking maybe guy #5 was a frequent visitor to JW's, in which case he saw the dogs often and might reasonably not recall whether they were there on that one particular visit or not.

For me at least, when I do something regularly/frequently, the memories of specific instances all start to blur together.

MOO

 

[al66pine]

I see the logic behind LE legally being able to use this technique to help solve crimes, however not in this case. I just can't see LE privately disclosing information to these families since they're all on SM desperately stating they want to know what has occurred. I can't see LE stating definitely this was not a homicide scene just to trick a perpetrator into thinking there would be no further investigation into murder. I am fairly certain a perpetrator would already be on high alert, disposing of any evidence, and wanting to flee, considering 3 people have died unexpectedly. JMO.

@Forest_Wood
Thanks for your post. I see what you're saying.

 

[10ofRods]

Homebodies?

@CrimeDawg123
What adult does not leave home for 2 - 3 days?
Not going to try to quantify w number, but lots. Not saying majority.
Numerous posters have said they do that sometimes.I know some ppl who do that.

And for adults who work from home, as JW did at least part time, a higher percentage.

Plus, the kind of academic work/research he does is often accompanied by long stints at a computer - the kinds of formulae involved can keep someone at it for 20 hours, which I've witnessed with my own eyes. At his stage of career, he's probably gotten some kind of work-life balance, but my friends who do this technical work definitely have to be prompted by their watches to stand up occasionally (deep inside a mathematical web, they are reluctant to have to lose their train of thought). It's been written about Einstein that he had this rare gift where he could be days into a long formulation and still be able to start all over and (more and more quickly) remember the whole thing. If I am doing complex math and I stop, it's a complete do-over for me and I think that's common (it's also why I don't do the intensive type of biochemical research that JW is known for - it's a rare gift).

As it is, when there's inclement weather, we do stay indoors. We have a window into the front yard and another into the backyard - but we have two sideyards that are essentially invisible to us (as well as several portions of the front and back yards that we cannot see - probably half of our property is invisible from those windows). If someone had died in the yard right outside my dressing room, I would never see them.

We do have dogs - but there were no dogs at the house when LE arrived. I assume 5th person may have arrived to actually watch the game - and the three other men came over afterwards. Perhaps the father came and got the dogs prior to the main get together. Perhaps the father came and got the dogs during the game, as it was cold and maybe he felt for them being locked outside (as people often do when socializing). We just don't know. Clearly, no dogs when either the girlfriend or LE arrived. I also assume that the dogs would have alerted on the front door during the other attempts (if there were other attempts) to contact JW inside his house.

Since I also often work with airpods on, I will say that the whole goal is to not be interrupted by people at the door/mailman, etc. If I go in my room and wear the airpods, the dogs do not jolt all my thoughts out of my head. Airpods also allow voice contact via the internet, so it's possible to work in teams and tune out the rest of the world. That's how a lot of science research gets done these days, IMO. If JW was planning a major work session the following day, it makes sense that he'd ask his dad to come and get the dogs.

 

[musicaljoke]

Been following here since the story broke. So sad, and confusing. RIP to the deceased.
I must admit, that the toxicology report will give the most answers, and that I am heavily leaning towards additional chemical components. Fentanyl OD is strongly on my suspicious list.
Another very strong possibility IMO, is the more recent street drug problem, "tranq". Or, xylazine. This drug can produce
"zombie" like effects. Videos can be seen all over about the drug and it's effects in Philadelphia, of people slumped over and unable to stand upright or ambulate.

From Google search:
xylazine

Since 2021, Kensington, a low-income neighborhood in North Philadelphia, has been ground zero for a new and dangerous sedative called “tranq”. Also known as “xylazine”, a side-effect of this drug can be struggling to stand upright, which is why users are commonly described in the media as “zombies”.Dec 18, 2023 "

"What is xylazine used for?

It is used on many different animal species such as cattle, sheep, horses, dogs, cats, deer, rats, and elk to calm and facilitate handling, perform diagnostic and surgical procedures, relieve pain, or act as a local anesthetic. "
‘Tranq tourism’: alarm in Philadelphia as TikTokers travel to film drug users

What if?? These guys partook in taking 'tranq' ( ingested, inhaled or smoked ), hoping for the sedative effect, and instead were overcome with the paralyzing effects? They might have gone outside to get some fresh air and wake their bodies up? Instead, they were all 3 rendered slumped over, unable to stand or walk, and succumbed to hypothermia.
JW ?? Said no, I will just stay slumped over here on my couch...and passed out.

MOO

At our veterinary hospital we used to use injectable xylazine as an anesthetic for horse castrations years ago. Yes, it would have the effect that you describe. Depending on the dose, users might not have time to put on their jackets. Mixed with opioids, it would be deadly.

 

[musicaljoke]

I'm not sure of anything with how these cases were not investigated. JW up and moved out and took any evidence with him.

As I mentioned upthread, you can be sure that autopsies have been performed. All suspicious deaths require a autopsy. During an autopsy, the coroner gathers tissue samples which are kept with the coroner's office even long after the individual has been buried or cremated. During the autopsy, the coroner would gather tissue samples from the kidneys, liver, brain, injection sites, blood samples, etc. There are standard practices that the coroner follows and these practices don't change according to the wishes of the family or the behaviours of those involved in the case.

So, even though the bodies have been laid to rest, the tissue samples remain available to tell the story of what happened.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, exactly. But unless their messaging including a mention of where he was (indoors vs outside), that doesn't really tell us when they went out. UNLESS his phone was found in the house while he was found outside. My question was whether we know if the men had their phones with them or not.

As mentioned, a sober person would have called for help before succumbing to exposure. But if they were impaired and weren't feeling the cold, not necessarily so.


I was thinking maybe guy #5 was a frequent visitor to JW's, in which case he saw the dogs often and might reasonably not recall whether they were there on that one particular visit or not.

For me at least, when I do something regularly/frequently, the memories of specific instances all start to blur together.

MOO

I think you are not alone. I think there are several plausible reasons why 5th person would think (or even actually saw) the dogs but the dogs were no longer there during the day (or were never there).

 

[Dawnee1004]

I think it was more about going for a quick moment outside and then to be back inside

Yeah, like let's go have a quick cig before we leave (maybe because whoever was driving doesn't like people smoking in the car - that happens a lot), so dude inside was drugged but warm and just passed out but not in the cold and the other 3 just made that unlucky choice to go outside for a few minutes and during those minutes is when the drug really kicked in rendering them unconscious. Then the cold/snow comes along on top of their already unconscious bodies and that's what did it. All just my opinion, of course!

 

[Forest_Wood]

Yes, exactly. But unless their messaging including a mention of where he was (indoors vs outside), that doesn't really tell us when they went out. UNLESS his phone was found in the house while he was found outside. My question was whether we know if the men had their phones with them or not.

As mentioned, a sober person would have called for help before succumbing to exposure. But if they were impaired and weren't feeling the cold, not necessarily so.

Well, except for JW stating he saw them leave through the front door an hour or so after the 5th guy left (around midnight) and before he went to sleep. Your question wasn't clear to me about the phones. It's a good question! Yes, they absolutely would have used their phones to call for help if they could have, but it seems they were incapacitated instantly or they didn't have their phones on them. MOO.