MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #4

[Elliot_Alderson]

Ah. We go to different parties, then.
My husband enjoys certain microbrews that his friends don't, so he will BYOB. Same with our friends who drink bourbon or whisky, they'll bring their own fancy bottles to our house because we don't have that on hand. I'm not investing in an expensive bottle because an occasional guest might like it.
People bring their own weed/vapes/cigarettes if they want to smoke.

Coke is expensive. And it's more stigmatized than weed. JMO I think the guests brought it to use themselves and only imbibed out of sight of JW, because he doesn't do coke.

How do we know he doesn't do coke?

 

[NCWatcher]

JW may not have wanted anyone snorting coke in his home, and I don't find that odd. But I do find snorting outside in the winter with the cold, snow, wind etc odd.

I generally agree but I don't believe it snowed until the next night. I'm not sure how windy it was Sunday night.

My days of being around illegal drug use have been over for quite awhile & obviously lots of things are different now (like the danger from fentanyl.) But back in the day, people were often a little paranoid when using coke. Doing it outside, even in a fenced yard might not have been a first choice for that reason. But IF JW wasn't a user or wasn't using that night, even if he hadn't prohibited use in the house, might have led to doing it outside. Or outside might have appealed if there was a desire not to have to share if JW was asleep/passed out but might wake up. MOO

 

[housewife]

How do we know he doesn't do coke?

My fault, I should have included IMHO in my previous post.
You are correct, we don't have proof either way.

 

[branmuffin]

I don't know if anyone ever followed the Sherman murders in 2017, a billionaire and his wife found dead in their upscale home in Toronto. The Toronto police initially said they believed the murders may have been a murder/suicide. It was the family who said 'no way' and any individual who reviewed the crime scene, outside of LE, also couldn't believe the assumption was murder/suicide. Two weeks later, LE capitulated that they were now investigating a double homicide. Even once the general public was privy to the circumstances surrounding their deaths, none of us could believe that initial statement. It's still an unsolved crime. But I think this death scene doesn't come close to that major faux pas that the TPS had to overcome.

In this case, we know the deceased were found dead but other than knowing one was sitting in a chair, we don't know whether any accoutrements of drug taking were found on their bodies. We don't know if the were ingesting, injecting or smoking drugs. Any one of those telltale signs would give LE an indication that the deceased took the drugs willingly.

Does anyone who lives in the general area know whether other individuals have died of drug overdoses? If LE wants to tighten the circle around any specific individuals they aren't going to go in both barrels blazing giving any drug dealer time to dispose of drugs or their customers time to figure out that X supplied Y to Z to cut back on more deaths. It's a win for the drug consuming public but a black eye for LE because people think they are no closer to their target. We just don't know.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

My fault, I should have included IMHO in my previous post.
You are correct, we don't have proof either way.

He did have to check into a rehab facility, so there is some kind of substance abuse going on. Could be for alcohol but could be for drugs.

 

[housewife]

Does anyone who lives in the general area know whether other individuals have died of drug overdoses? If LE wants to tighten the circle around any specific individuals they aren't going to go in both barrels blazing giving any drug dealer time to dispose of drugs or their customers time to figure out that X supplied Y to Z to cut back on more deaths. It's a win for the drug consuming public but a black eye for LE because people think they are no closer to their target. We just don't know.

RSBM
It looks like a widespread problem.

Missouri ranked 32nd among all states and DC for drug overdose death rates in 2020 and is the #1 leading cause of death among adults age 18-44 in Missouri. Over 70% involve opioids. Most involve non-heroin opioids.

edit: RSBM

 

[Elley Mae]

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2024-01/Street%20Report%20-%20Jan%202024%20-%20FINAL.pdf

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

RSBM
It looks like a widespread problem.

Missouri ranked 32nd among all states and DC for drug overdose death rates in 2020 and is the #1 leading cause of death among adults age 18-44 in Missouri. Over 70% involve opioids. Most involve non-heroin opioids.

edit: RSBM

Is fentanyl considered a non-heroin opioids in this study? When someone OD's on a drug like cocaine that is cut with fentanyl, how is it listed? If someone OD's on fake xanax pills that are pressed with fentanyl, is that considered an opioid overdose or not?

 

[DFWNF]

I don't know if anyone ever followed the Sherman murders in 2017, a billionaire and his wife found dead in their upscale home in Toronto. The Toronto police initially said they believed the murders may have been a murder/suicide. It was the family who said 'no way' and any individual who reviewed the crime scene, outside of LE, also couldn't believe the assumption was murder/suicide. Two weeks later, LE capitulated that they were now investigating a double homicide. Even once the general public was privy to the circumstances surrounding their deaths, none of us could believe that initial statement. It's still an unsolved crime. But I think this death scene doesn't come close to that major faux pas that the TPS had to overcome.

In this case, we know the deceased were found dead but other than knowing one was sitting in a chair, we don't know whether any accoutrements of drug taking were found on their bodies. We don't know if the were ingesting, injecting or smoking drugs. Any one of those telltale signs would give LE an indication that the deceased took the drugs willingly.

Does anyone who lives in the general area know whether other individuals have died of drug overdoses? If LE wants to tighten the circle around any specific individuals they aren't going to go in both barrels blazing giving any drug dealer time to dispose of drugs or their customers time to figure out that X supplied Y to Z to cut back on more deaths. It's a win for the drug consuming public but a black eye for LE because people think they are no closer to their target. We just don't know.

Hi there. I have been wondering about how the drugs were injested for awhile. Ie smoke, snort, shot up etc, and snorting outside in winter doesn't seem realistic to me. Jmo

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Hi there. I have been wondering about how the drugs were injested for awhile. Ie smoke, snort, shot up etc, and snorting outside in winter doesn't seem realistic to me. Jmo

If you snort drugs with any regularity, I can assure you having to do it outside would not impede you whatsoever. JMO

 

[DFWNF]

If you snort drugs with any regularity, I can assure you having to do it outside would not impede you whatsoever. JMO

Agree to disagree, not in winter imo.

 

[LMDlong]

I have a theory about what happened here. I think certain aspects of the night that have been hypothesized here are correct: that the group, including AWL and possibly JW, all consumed alcohol and a combination of drugs, including cocaine, weed, etc. Everyone was inebriated and smoking weed and snorting coke. They'd been at JWs house for hours and hours, at least since 7pm.

There's a discrepancy over the time when AWL left, when JW fell asleep and when the three deceased left. As many people have suggested, the 3 deceased decided to do a hit before leaving to go home to kind of straighten themselves out and that's the moment they all died within very short order. I don't know how many chairs were outside but let's assume all three were sitting down ready to go.

The next part of my theory refers to a report I submitted in a previous post regarding how drugs are metabolized in people depending on their body weight. A study had been done to suggest that when prescribing drugs it should be based on lean body weight not overall body weight and that those individuals with more adipose tissue eg, obesity, react to drugs much more quickly rather than their leaner counterparts. If that theory is correct then out of all those 3, DH would have succumbed much quicker than his buddies, perhaps dying seconds after ingesting the drug. The other two, CM and RJ may have already stood up and walked a few paces to whichever entrance they were taking their leave and then dropped in their tracks.

I also think LE investigation will be weeding through the two opposing statements of JW and AWL. JW has given several fuzzy statements in regards to when the three left, which door they left through and when he saw them last, etc. And AWL who has emphatically stated all three were alive when he left. Therein lies the problem. Three dead, their bodies frozen, with tox screens that suggest multiples of illegal substances, JW, the host, who volunteered to let LE search his home without a warrant, be interviewed without an attorney present and has not only acknowledged his addictions but checked into rehab and AWL who had three days to fine tune his alibi, saying SFA for a couple of days then coming forward with a criminal attorney in tow. IMO

The temperature outside also contributed to their deaths.
Cold temperatures increases the risk of fatal opioid overdoses. Opioids lower the body temperature and causes breathing difficulties. Being outside in low temperatures, taking another hit that did them in . JMO

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Time of death will be interesting if the autopsy was able to figure it out accurately. Post-midnight, witness statements check out. Pre-midnight, there would be a problem.

 

[Charlot123]

Kansas City, KS. Kansas City, MO.


@December @Charlot123
And @GoBuckeyes
Confusion about KC is perfectly understandable. There's KC KS. Across the state line is KC MO.* Two separate cities in two different states.

Potentially adding to confusion in crim cases: (the city of) Kansas City, MO. lies in four different counties.
Altho most of KC MO lies in Jackson County MO, portions of city of KC MO spill into Clay, Platte, and Cass counties.

Members of KC MO (city) Police Dept.** responded to the call at JW's house and made stmts to the public, but the Platte County (not Jackson County) Prosecutor*** has been in contact w victims' families

And possible prosecution?
Platte County Prosecutor MAY prosecute crim charges, if any, stemming from these events. Waaay too early to predict what or when imo.
OTOH, the prosecutor of one of the other counties MAY prosecute other related offenses, if any ( e.g., sales, distribution, or possession of illegal drugs), which may have occurred in OTHER parts of KC MO. Again, too early.
ETA: Of course, assuming there were illegal drug sales, distribution, or possession of the drugs detected in the bodies of the deceased, those acts may not have occurred in KC MO. Coulda been in another county or across the state line in KS, or who knows where.
imo
__________________________________
* "Kansas City, Missouri (KC or KCMO) is the largest city in the U.S. state of Missouri by population and area. Most of the city lies within Jackson County, with portions spilling into Clay, Platte, and Cass counties. It is the central city of the Kansas City metropolitan area, which straddles the Missouri–Kansas state line and has a population of 2,392,035."

Kansas City, Missouri - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

** Home | Kansas City, Missouri Police Department
*** Prosecutor — Platte County

So for me to fully understand it.
These two KC, one in MO, the other in KS, have a common border, don't they?

It is unbelievably difficult to trace cases that happen in such places. I believe I read a true crime novel where someone lived in KS, MO, but the husband worked in KC, KS, or vice versa, and it was impossible to track the events. A similar situation happened in a murder/disappearance case in Grand Canyon. If I remember correctly, the couple lived in AZ and the victim disappeared in NV part of it. It could have been the opposite, but by the end, i lost the track.

If it is difficult to read about such cases, i can only imagine how difficult coordinating activities might be IRL. As you have pointed out, KC being located in four counties might create additional problems for LE. (Wishing KC luck in these difficult days.)

 

[girlhasnoname]

Time of death will be interesting if the autopsy was able to figure it out accurately. Post-midnight, witness statements check out. Pre-midnight, there would be a problem.

Actual TOD will be harder to determine by them being out in the elements and frozen (I hate to even type that ) It would have slowed decomposition down significantly.

JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

Actual TOD will be harder to determine by them being out in the elements and frozen (I hate to even type that ) It would have slowed decomposition down significantly.

JMO

True. But an experienced practitioner will know how the specific (& generally documented) temperatures would likely have affected tissue, I'd think. But even given that, I doubt it will be possible to discover TOD to the exact hour (as in midnight vs 1 am.) Honestly I doubt that would have been possible days after death even if the bodies had been indoors. It's not as though there is some verifiable time-documented event like them all eating a meal of x, y, z to help.
MOO

 

[STLBlues]

So for me to fully understand it.
These two KC, one in MO, the other in KS, have a common border, don't they?

RSBM - Yes, there is a Kansas City, MO and Kansas City, KS. They share a state border and there is even a road Stateline Road that goes along that border.

 

[Cedars]

Actual TOD will be harder to determine by them being out in the elements and frozen (I hate to even type that ) It would have slowed decomposition down significantly.

Often, these days, TOD is inferred from the victim's last phone use, eg the Murdaugh victims.

JMO

 

[December]

JW might be able to shed light on when the last time, to his knowledge, they ate. Idk if there were chips and stuff at the party, or if they ordered some food, or what. I just know it's a long time since the football game ended and the watching of Jeopardy. I really think everyone probably ate something in that time period.

Whether they all ate at once or if snacks were just consumed on a need-to-eat basis; if a time can be affixed to at least one person's food consumption, that might help figure out TOD.

(ETA: i mean a deceased person whose digestion would have stopped.)

 

[December]

<modsnip: off topic>

I think that the families did have to stand up for the deceased. Dead people can't defend themselves or explain themselves. We the living must do that.

Even in cases that turn out to be exactly what they appear to be, some sort of investigation has to be done. I think, many times, it is but there's nothing in it that can really be shared with the public.