MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #4

[December]

Btw, someone mentioned snow. I believe it snowed early on the 9th. The football game was the 7th. Information is all through the threads as per the weather during relevant days.

 

[LadyL]

MOO: Yup!

MOO: Double yup!

The following is speculation based on MOO:

A possible scenario for why the 3 friends went outside: JW is a successful scientist who is OK with alcohol consumption in his home (LEGAL!), but (let's say) draws a hard line -- no illegal drug use allowed inside his home because that could end his professional career. Perhaps the guys went outside because whatever they were consuming and/or the way they were consuming it was not allowed by JW inside his home...and were taken down by fentanyl poisoning.

I'm not without deep compassion for those struggling with devastating grief of this loss - widows, fatherless children, devastated parents, anguished friends. Crack cocaine epidemic, then meth, now fentanyl...so many lives destroyed.

and now tranq too (xylazine)

Xylazine, an animal tranquilizer, is latest threat in the opioid epidemic: What you need to know

The animal tranquilizer xylazine is showing up in the illicit drug supply in the United States, particularly in synthetic opioids like fentanyl.

www.usatoday.com

Tranq users get turned into real-life zombies, right down to loss of basic mental function and the rotting flesh.

 

[Curious Me]

This is something we discussed on this thread. ​

Updated 1:07 PM PST, February 15, 2024

More people die after smoking drugs than injecting them, US study finds

A new government study suggests smoking has surpassed injecting as the most common way of taking drugs in U.S. overdose deaths.

apnews.com

The researchers found that between early 2020 and late 2022, the percentage of overdose deaths with evidence of smoking rose 74% while the percentage of deaths with evidence of injection fell 29%. The number and percentage of deaths with evidence of snorting also increased, though not as dramatically as smoking-related deaths, the study found.
[...]
Data came from states from every region of the country, and all showed increases in smoking and decreases in injecting. Smoking was the most common route in the West and Midwest, and roughly tied with injecting in the Northeast and South, the report said.
[...]
Kral also noted that many people who smoke fentanyl use a straw to inhale vapors from the burning powder, and it’s possible investigators saw a straw and assumed it was snorted.​

 

[IceIce9]

RSBM
It looks like a widespread problem.

Missouri ranked 32nd among all states and DC for drug overdose death rates in 2020 and is the #1 leading cause of death among adults age 18-44 in Missouri. Over 70% involve opioids. Most involve non-heroin opioids.

edit: RSBM

These are the most recent statistics that we use in our Opioid Education classes:

Missouri

• 1,583 overdose deaths per year.
• 2.51% of all deaths are from drug overdose.
• OD deaths increased at an annual rate of 4.84% over the last 3 years.
• The OD death rate is 26.9 deaths out of every 100,000 residents.
• This is 29.95% higher than the national average OD death rate

Drug Overdose Death Statistics [2023]: Opioids, Fentanyl & More

The number of deaths per year from accidental drug overdose, including methadone, cocaine, fentanyl & other prescription drugs.

drugabusestatistics.org

 

[December]

I think people aren't buying fent, don't think they will get fent, and are going by past experiences. I don't know if no matter what you do if you can convince people that yes, tiny minute amounts of this drug will kill you. And that it's in completely unrelated types of drugs. Because logically that doesn't make sense to them. But, that seems to be what is happening.

Eta... I have seen some videos with doctors talking about the specific drugs in this case (including alcohol). I don't want to link because I didn't finish the video. I think maybe if people (who use drugs) watch some of these, they might see how dangerous some of these drugs especially in combination really are.

 

[housewife]

I think people aren't buying fent, don't think they will get fent, and are going by past experiences. I don't know if no matter what you do if you can convince people that yes, tiny minute amounts of this drug will kill you. And that it's in completely unrelated types of drugs. Because logically that doesn't make sense to them. But, that seems to be what is happening.

In our area the schools have been preemptively giving parents information and warnings regarding narcotics and fentanyl. I'm glad we are trying to turn this around with education.

 

[branmuffin]

I know a lot of Canadians roll their eyes when PM Justin Trudeau suggests getting at the root cause of why so many people are addicted to drugs but most of the things we currently do, like providing free naloxone, arresting drug pushers, sometimes charging them with murder or manslaughter, giving "the talk" to kids, etc. seem to be ineffectual band aid solutions to this epidemic. Why do so many people want to take such dangerous drugs?

 

[iridized]

I think people aren't buying fent, don't think they will get fent, and are going by past experiences. I don't know if no matter what you do if you can convince people that yes, tiny minute amounts of this drug will kill you. And that it's in completely unrelated types of drugs. Because logically that doesn't make sense to them. But, that seems to be what is happening.

Eta... I have seen some videos with doctors talking about the specific drugs in this case (including alcohol). I don't want to link because I didn't finish the video. I think maybe if people (who use drugs) watch some of these, they might see how dangerous some of these drugs especially in combination really are.

Even knowing how dangerous fent is, people will still use it.

"Inmates in the second pod were asked why they took the drugs after seeing what happened to the other inmates on Saturday. They said, “because we are drug addicts,” according to the sheriff’s office."
Inmate dies after 12, including nurse, officers, exposed to fentanyl in Pinellas County jail, deputies say

 

[IceIce9]

Even knowing how dangerous fent is, people will still use it.

"Inmates in the second pod were asked why they took the drugs after seeing what happened to the other inmates on Saturday. They said, “because we are drug addicts,” according to the sheriff’s office."
Inmate dies after 12, including nurse, officers, exposed to fentanyl in Pinellas County jail, deputies say

Nearly all of the drug-dependent people I have spoken with have had friends die from overdoses. They know using drugs is risky and that they could die. But they can’t stop. That is why it is called addiction.

 

[December]

I understand about the people who are addicted. But, even the people who aren't addicted are trying these.

Why are people using them? There are probably as many answers as there are users. Everything from curiosity to self medicating various problems to addiction. They might not even know the true, real reason themselves. People are complicated.

 

[Spartygirl]

Is fentanyl considered a non-heroin opioids in this study? When someone OD's on a drug like cocaine that is cut with fentanyl, how is it listed? If someone OD's on fake xanax pills that are pressed with fentanyl, is that considered an opioid overdose or not?

Well, my family's friend that this happened to shows on the DC as drug use since TOX showed cocaine and fentanyl.
It was a one time incident at a party that unfortunately had a bad batch there.

 

[IceIce9]

Is fentanyl considered a non-heroin opioids in this study? When someone OD's on a drug like cocaine that is cut with fentanyl, how is it listed? If someone OD's on fake xanax pills that are pressed with fentanyl, is that considered an opioid overdose or not?

Yes, if fentanyl is present in any amount it is considered to be an opioid overdose.

 

[Spartygirl]

Yes, if fentanyl is present in any amount it is considered to be an opioid overdose.

I was a bit surprised to see our friend's DC say drug use as COD and not Overdose, etc.
But we are a very small community/county so IDK if that is why but yeah, I was surprised after following cases on here and seeing other DCs that state that.

 

[NCWatcher]

Yes, if fentanyl is present in any amount it is considered to be an opioid overdose.

Hmm. That surprises me if I'm understanding what you are saying.

I'd think the cause of death would be the precise COD. So if someone had, say, a fatal heart attack triggered by a very large dose of meth, even if a tiny amount of fentanyl was detected, the cause of death would be attributed to a cardiac event triggered by meth, not to an opioid overdose. But if it's the latter, it would seem that would overstate opioid deaths, just like attributing deaths to COVID if COVID was detected would (i.e., the whole controversy re: dying of COVID vs dying with COVID.) Frankly, even if there was no hint of assisted suicide, it would seem many hospitalized patients would be dying of "opioid overdoses" by that metric and I've not read that to be the case. But now that opioids have become a political issue, manipulation of statistics wouldn't surprise me.

In the current case, IF the family report is correct and an amount of fentanyl known to be absolutely & undeniably fatal was detected in each of the dead men, it would seem reasonable for fentanyl to be the ultimate COD.
MOO

 

[investikater]

Kansas City Scientist's friend says he's not a 'drug-dealing chemist'

Jordan Willis reportedly entered rebab after the suspicious deaths of his friends Clayton McGeeney, 36, Ricky Johnson, 38, and David Harrington, 37.

www.google.com

 

[neesaki]

DBM

 

[neesaki]

I don’t thinking leaving 3 dead bodies of your friends in the backyard for a couple of days is something the average person is up too, either. Unless you were running away or something. Can you see any reason an average person would do such a thing and just stick around?

I can tell you this, I’d have to be nearly dead or dead for me to not know what was going on in my own. back. yard. … over the course of several days. I could see one day, but only if I wasn’t home, or maybe in bed sick. I’d have to be seriously sick….but I still look out my windows unless I was completely bed ridden!
But If he was home, as he reportedly was…. it makes it more questionable.
I can’t think of anything you can say that will convince me this man did not know they were there. Outside of him being completely disabled for two whole days. And since he immediately showed up at the door as soon as the law showed up, I have no doubt he was up and about for a time prior to that. Just common sense. As usual it’s JMO.

Please make note of my new Signature. Thank you

“Everything I post is simply my own opinion, nothing more.”

 

[neesaki]

I can tell you this, I’d have to be nearly dead or dead for me to not know what was going on in my own. back. yard. … over the course of several days. I could see one day, but only if I wasn’t home, or maybe in bed sick. I’d have to be seriously sick….but I still look out my windows unless I was completely bed ridden!
But If he was home, as he reportedly was…. it makes it more questionable.
I can’t think of anything you can say that will convince me this man did not know they were there. Outside of him being completely disabled for two whole days. And since he immediately showed up at the door as soon as the law showed up, I have no doubt he was up and about for a time prior to that. Just common sense. As usual it’s JMO.

Please make note of my new Signature. Thank you

“Everything I post is simply my own opinion, nothing more.”

ETA: Not to mention his attorney reported that he was in and out of the house during the day. So he was moving around , which means he wasn’t incapacitated.

 

[NCWatcher]

ETA: Not to mention his attorney reported that he was in and out of the house during the day. So he was moving around , which means he wasn’t incapacitated.

And the attorney later said he misspoke about JW leaving the house-- that he didn't leave the house. (As I've posted before, I'm not too sure about that attorney's ability to listen carefully.)

The way my house is designed and the way I use the rooms I look out my windows into my backyard pretty often but not constantly. Someone could be lying on the ground and I'd not know it for a day or two. And days can go by and I don't look out into the front yard. While people passing by might notice dead people in the front yard, the principle is still the same-- things could be going on in my yard for two days and I'd not know if I didn't have to leave the house for work.
MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

I can tell you this, I’d have to be nearly dead or dead for me to not know what was going on in my own. back. yard. … over the course of several days. I could see one day, but only if I wasn’t home, or maybe in bed sick. I’d have to be seriously sick….but I still look out my windows unless I was completely bed ridden!
But If he was home, as he reportedly was…. it makes it more questionable.
I can’t think of anything you can say that will convince me this man did not know they were there. Outside of him being completely disabled for two whole days. And since he immediately showed up at the door as soon as the law showed up, I have no doubt he was up and about for a time prior to that. Just common sense. As usual it’s JMO.

Please make note of my new Signature. Thank you

“Everything I post is simply my own opinion, nothing more.”

Just because you might see someone in your back yard in no way translates to the same being true for someone else. There's been a lot of discussion about this. BTW, it wasn't several days. Common sense tells me it was less than 2 days. MOO