MO - Grief and protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown

[JeannaT]

I guess this must be the moment of silence? Everyone is kind of milling around without doing much.

 

[popsicle]

Russ Ptacek, WUSA9 ‏@RussPtacek 1m
DC #MichaelBrown #NMOS14 crowd estimated at 1,000 or more by @DCist reporter @Matt_D_Cohen

 

[sorrell skye]

His interview on fox2 just a few mins ago was awesome imo

Yes it was! When I heard Captain Johnson speak earlier today at the press conference with the Governor, I knew Johnson was the right man for the job.

He's authoritative, rather than authoritarian and confrontational. He won't hesitate to enforce the law, but he's also willing to listen and meet with the community members. Good combination. The FPD could and should take a page out of his book if they're interested in working toward establishing a dialogue and a healthy relationship with the citizens of Ferguson.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

God that is part of the problem. Who cares who thinks who won. Put the damn egos aside. It doesn't matter. But if them thinking they won means no more violence, then who the hell cares.

I care! Violence and hate should never be OK or tolerated, ever. People should be made to understand that rioting, looting, beating is not acceptable. I have been through a similar situation in a small community in south Louisiana about 20 years ago. Although our city was small we had people coming in from surrounding communities under the guise of protesting. After a few days the National Guard was called in and we had a dusk to dawn curfew. They closed the schools for awhile. I was threatened by two men with a knife in the middle of the day about two blocks from the police station. I will never forget the man holding the knife said he was going to "take a blade to my face". Not acceptable, not ok. Nor should people ever be allowed to think that it's ok. IMO it's not about egos...how about next time? If someone thinks they won through violence...rest assured there will be a next time.

 

[reedus23]

I care. Quite frequently, when things upset a certain group, or things don't go their way, we are threaten with a riot. We even were in this case, way back somewhere in this thread. I'm sick of it. I will not be intimidated by "riots" from a lawless bunch, none of us should be. Their lawless, intimidating arses should be thrown in jail, not given in to, told they "won". BS, says I.

When the riots are in your town, feel free to light them up like it's the 4th of July. Seems to me that Johnson's approach of treating them humanely and with respect is working better. But as always...it is just my very humble opinion.

And yes, I understand the true test will come after dark. But do not be surprised to see this community do a complete 180 and self police not only themselves but any outsiders that want to start the violence.

 

[popsicle]

When the riots are in your town, feel free to light them up like it's the 4th of July. Seems to me that Johnson's approach of treating them humanely and with respect is working better. But as always...it is just my very humble opinion.

And yes, I understand the true test will come after dark. But do not be surprised to see this community do a complete 180 and self police not only themselves but any outsiders that want to start the violence.

Light what up?

 

[al66pine]

What is the percentage of blacks vs whites who live in Ferguson?
Are there more whites living there and the AAs are in the small minority?
TIA. IMO

OBE Early in thread, I posted info from city-data Ferguson, MO Again:

Races of Ferguson Residents
Black alone - 13,753 (64.9%)White alone - 6,494 (30.6%)
Two or more races - 437 (2.1%)
Asian alone - 263 (1.2%)
(Note: no date, I dropped the few categories w < 1%)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Ferguson-Missouri.html#ixzz3APhJSrZY

Population in 2012: 21,135 (100% urban, 0% rural). Population change since 2000: -5.7%
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Ferguson-Missouri.html#ixzz3APhxLct5

Full-time law enforcement employees in 2011, including police officers: 63 (54 officers).
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Ferguson-Missouri.html#ixzz3APiWoc5Y

I've read in a few MSM article that only 3 of the LEOs there are black. (Sorry no link)

 

[Gardenlady]

I care! Violence and hate should never be OK or tolerated, ever.

Do you not see, though, that violence and hatred are exactly the things being protested?

People have a right to be angry and afraid over what happened to this young man, and to protest to show that.

A crowd of any color, already emotional over an emotional issue, should NOT be provoked by the presence of "police" in gear and vehicles that look straight out of a war zone. They should not be provoked into further anger by having SNIPERS aiming weapons at them.

There are many LE departments across this country who should be made to answer for their practices. Ferguson is but one of them. The answer is NOT to treat protestors and civil disobedience (ie, sitting in the street, gathering at the police station, reusing to move from a sidewalk) as enemy combatants and acts of terrorism. The answer is to hear the concerns, acknowledge the concerns an the anger, and give answers and solutions to the people of the community who they are suppose to protect and serve.



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[JeannaT]

From what I saw, this was basically a crowd of gawkers at the protest just now. Same kind of crowd you find lining up outside of Best Buy on Black Friday - basically looking for something to do. Milling around, chatting in small circles, endlessly checking their phones.

The crowd on Fox wasn't a formerly angry crowd that has now been calmed and unified - it's folks who kind of wanted to come out and have a look-see and then post it to their Facebook, IMHO. Overnight, when those who are passionate and angry might come out, will be the time to hopefully see a lessening of violence.

 

[reedus23]

I care! Violence and hate should never be OK or tolerated, ever. People should be made to understand that rioting, looting, beating is not acceptable. I have been through a similar situation in a small community in south Louisiana about 20 years ago. Although our city was small we had people coming in from surrounding communities under the guise of protesting. After a few days the National Guard was called in and we had a dusk to dawn curfew. They closed the schools for awhile. I was threatened by two men with a knife in the middle of the day about two blocks from the police station. I will never forget the man holding the knife said he was going to "take a blade to my face". Not acceptable, not ok. Nor should people ever be allowed to think that it's ok. IMO it's not about egos...how about next time? If someone thinks they won through violence...rest assured there will be a next time.

Sorry to hear what you went through, truly. My only point is...if, at the point he was holding a knife on you, if you knew he would peacefully leave if you said the words "Ok, you win." would you have said them? If you think that just saying the words, even if you don't mean them, would result in him dropping his knife and walking away, I would strongly encourage you...say the words. Worry about sorting out justice later.

 

[wendiesan]

OBE Early in thread, I posted info from city-data Ferguson, MO Again:

Races of Ferguson Residents
Black alone - 13,753 (64.9%)White alone - 6,494 (30.6%)
Two or more races - 437 (2.1%)
Asian alone - 263 (1.2%)
(Note: no date, I dropped the few categories w < 1%)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Ferguson-Missouri.html#ixzz3APhJSrZY

Population in 2012: 21,135 (100% urban, 0% rural). Population change since 2000: -5.7%
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Ferguson-Missouri.html#ixzz3APhxLct5

Full-time law enforcement employees in 2011, including police officers: 63 (54 officers).
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Ferguson-Missouri.html#ixzz3APiWoc5Y

I've read in a few MSM article that only 3 of the LEOs there are black. (Sorry no link)

There are other links but here's one with some other interesting statistics.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/10-insane-numbers-ferguson-killing

In 2013, 483 black people were arrested. 36 white people were arrested.
92% of searches and 86% of car stops involved blacks.
Source: Missouri Attorney General

When police stop citizens in Ferguson, they're almost always black. But white citizens are more often caught carrying illegal items, like weapons or drugs. 1 in 3 white people were carrying contraband. 1 in 5 black people were carrying contraband.
Source: Missouri Attorney General

 

[Gardenlady]

I care. Quite frequently, when things upset a certain group, or things don't go their way, we are threaten with a riot. We even were in this case, way back somewhere in this thread. I'm sick of it. I will not be intimidated by "riots" from a lawless bunch, none of us should be. Their lawless, intimidating arses should be thrown in jail, not given in to, told they "won". BS, says I.

What "certain group"? When "certain groups" are marginalized, brutalized, and treated as second class citizens for long enough then it is only common sense that anger will eventually be unleashed in acts of retaliatory violence, especially when PEACEFUL outlets - like protests and non-violent acts of civil disobedience are met with military vehicles and snipers.

And lest anyone think this kind of retaliatory violence is only confined to one "certain group", let me remind you of not-so-long-ago acts of retaliatory violence on the part of Catholics in Northern Ireland (similarly marginalized), as well as riots of various marginalized immigrant groups here in the US throughout our history, back Ito the 1800s.


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[reedus23]

Light what up?

It's a figure of speech referencing how LE opened up fire on the people last night. If he/she feels that is the best approach, I'm not going to argue it. But I'd prefer that approach be used when they're rioting in his/her town, not mine. The current approach to controlling the masses seems to be working better.

 

[JeannaT]

What "certain group"? When "certain groups" are marginalized, brutalized, and treated as second class citizens for long enough then it is only common sense that anger will eventually be unleashed in acts of retaliatory violence, especially when PEACEFUL outlets - like protests and non-violent acts of civil disobedience are met with military vehicles and snipers.

And lest anyone think this kind of retaliatory violence is only confined to one "certain group", let me remind you of not-so-long-ago acts of retaliatory violence on the part of Catholics in Northern Ireland (similarly marginalized), as well as riots of various marginalized immigrant groups here in the US throughout our history, back Ito the 1800s.


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I'm honestly curious. I don't remember knowledge of any immigrant groups doing this in our history. CERTAINLY they were marginalized. The Chinese and Japanese (both lumped into the same category although they are completely different) in the 1930's through 1950s, the Irish although they were hated, the Poles, the Jews, the "Scotch-Irish" of the south, all were marginalized and denied housing and fair treatment and jobs. I don't remember a single time when they rioted. Native Americans who have arguably been the most marginalized and mistreated have done nothing in retaliation since the time when it was a fair fight. It's amazing the treatment groupings of immigrants put up with and endured it, to later come out on top.

 

[reedus23]

From what I saw, this was basically a crowd of gawkers at the protest just now. Same kind of crowd you find lining up outside of Best Buy on Black Friday - basically looking for something to do. Milling around, chatting in small circles, endlessly checking their phones.

The crowd on Fox wasn't a formerly angry crowd that has now been calmed and unified - it's folks who kind of wanted to come out and have a look-see and then post it to their Facebook, IMHO. Overnight, when those who are passionate and angry might come out, will be the time to hopefully see a lessening of violence.

These are the same people PLUS a ton more people who now feel safe. Trust me, it's the same people PLUS a ton. There is only one difference. I will give you an opportunity to guess what that difference is.

I do agree, the true test will come tonight after dark. Not because they're more passionate or angry. It's because the violent ones are just criminals, and mostly from outside of the area. Had a bunch of posts that didn't go through so forgive me if repeating, but watch this community make a 180. They will self police themselves. They will not stand for outsider coming in to commit acts of violence.

 

[Beaglemania]

I posted this link earlier: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/13/opinion/racial-history-behind-the-ferguson-protests.html?_r=1.

It gives a concise historical perspective on the problems which have plagued both Ferguson as well as nearby communities for the past 2 decades. too bad, that it took the senseless death of this young man, Michael Brown, to finally illuminate the glaring racial disparities within that community. Hopefully, the DOJ will conduct a thorough investigation.

 

[reedus23]

10x's the number of protesters. Not even 1/10th the anger and conflict. Chief of Police might be a step back from his state job, but if Ferguson were smart, they'd buck up and hire him as their new chief. I don't see how the department in it's current form can ever bridge the divide that has been created with the community.

 

[JeannaT]

10x's the number of protesters. Not even 1/10th the anger and conflict. Chief of Police might be a step back from his state job, but if Ferguson were smart, they'd buck up and hire him as their new chief. I don't see how the department in it's current form can ever bridge the divide that has been created with the community.

They're not the same individuals gathering, reedus. I didn't sense any anger, either. Because they aren't angry. They're mildly curious, IMHO.

 

[reedus23]

I didn't see this post go through either. Another necessary change. Anytime a municipality has an officer involved shooting, turn it over immediately to the state in all aspects. You can't have the LE that the community is questioning also being the one's that are standing in front of them, especially in full military gear.

 

[Beaglemania]

Agree. It sure is a good thing that a "certain group" of American colonists rose up and protested against England's tyrannical actions against them...lest we would not have our U.S. Constitution as we know it today.