MO - Grief and protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown

[Gardenlady]

I'm honestly curious. I don't remember knowledge of any immigrant groups doing this in our history. CERTAINLY they were marginalized. The Chinese and Japanese (both lumped into the same category although they are completely different) in the 1930's through 1950s, the Irish although they were hated, the Poles, the Jews, the "Scotch-Irish" of the south, all were marginalized and denied housing and fair treatment and jobs. I don't remember a single time when they rioted. Native Americans who have arguably been the most marginalized and mistreated have done nothing in retaliation since the time when it was a fair fight. It's amazing the treatment groupings of immigrants put up with and endured it, to later come out on top.

I will let you do the research. Google is always your friend. The Irish have been involved in several riots in US history, for example. Slavery supporters and nativists have also rioted. Also, if you think Native Americans have "done nothing" in retaliation then you have received a very white-washed version of history lessons. Wounded Knee was only 40 or so years ago, too.

Not tryin to be fresh. Just pointing out that the information is out there for those who care enough to look for it. It is no ones duty but yours to educate yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[reedus23]

They're not the same individuals gathering, reedus. I didn't sense any anger, either. Because they aren't angry. They're mildly curious, IMHO.

JeannaT, there are obviously a lot more people included who weren't there before. But please trust me, they are the same people as those who were protesting. Where we might be missing each other is I said protesters...not rioters/looters. As you said, they will come out later tonight...maybe. But the protesters who have been protesting day long until dark are among those people out there now. You don't see the anger because who was that anger directed at? Local LE. Who is no longer in front of them in full riot gear? Local LE. So there is no one present for them to direct that anger against. If you brought Ferguson PD out right now, you would see this crowd go from peacefully walking around with their hands up at times, to angrily shouting at the Ferguson PD with their hands up. Not violent, but angry and shouting.

 

[JeannaT]

I will let you do the research. Google is always your friend. The Irish have been involved in several riots in US history, for example. Slavery supporters and nativists have also rioted. Also, if you think Native Americans have "done nothing" in retaliation then you have received a very white-washed version of history lessons. Wounded Knee was only 40 or so years ago, too.

Not tryin to be fresh. Just pointing out that the information is out there for those who care enough to look for it. It is no ones duty but yours to educate yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wounded knee was in 1890. I don't think I've seen another group of protesters break into stores and steal stuff and smash vehicles indiscriminately in their own communities when they get angry. Besides pouring the Boston Tea in the harbor.

Edited: I went looking for what you were talking about with Wounded Knee, and found something in 1973. Hmmmm, you're right.

 

[Gardenlady]

This is what I mean. It is everyone's responsibility to educate themselves. Your lack of knowledge creates a view that only "certain groups" engage in certain tactics. It is your duty to educate yourself - wounded knee incident (not the massacre) occurred in the early 70s:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_incident



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gardenlady]

Jeanna I just saw your edit, thanks for that... I posted my link before I saw. :wave:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OBE Early in thread, I posted info from city-data Ferguson, MO Again:

Races of Ferguson Residents
Black alone - 13,753 (64.9%)White alone - 6,494 (30.6%)
Two or more races - 437 (2.1%)
Asian alone - 263 (1.2%)
(Note: no date, I dropped the few categories w < 1%)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Ferguson-Missouri.html#ixzz3APhJSrZY

Population in 2012: 21,135 (100% urban, 0% rural). Population change since 2000: -5.7%
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Ferguson-Missouri.html#ixzz3APhxLct5

Full-time law enforcement employees in 2011, including police officers: 63 (54 officers).
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Ferguson-Missouri.html#ixzz3APiWoc5Y

I've read in a few MSM article that only 3 of the LEOs there are black. (Sorry no link)

Thank you. I must have missed it. I haven't been able to read every post that has been posted.

I am glad you posted it again because for some reason I thought this was a town that is predominately white but I see it is the opposite in fact.

And I suppose those percentages were based on the 2010 census and the AA community may be even larger now.

I thought I read somewhere this morning from another poster who lives there that they have seen ads where the police department does advertise wanting minorities to sign up to become police officers.

And with it being predominately an AA community you would think most all of the local elected officials would be heavily AAs as well. That's strange to me.

In the town/county adjoining mine this is the case and most all of the elected officials in that town are AA just like most of the population is. The police forces (both city and county) are predominately AA too. It has a very high rate of crime. Two or three years ago it was rated #46th in the nation as far as homicides by capita.

 

[JeannaT]

This is what I mean. It is everyone's responsibility to educate themselves. Your lack of knowledge creates a view that only "certain groups" engage in certain tactics. It is your duty to educate yourself - wounded knee incident (not the massacre) occurred in the early 70s:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_incident



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am educated, actually, and have always been very interested in immigrant groups and assimilation. One thing that does stand out clearly - groups who relocate THEMSELVES assimilate well, and thrive after an initial bumpy start. Groups that are relocated against their wills don't. They never really take hold, and never experience "thriving" the way those who chose to relocate. And Native Americans who are languishing in the Reservations and the AA population never has been able to assimilate the way groups who brought themselves here or relocated themselves within the US as their own choice.

 

[octobermoon]

Wounded knee was in 1890. I don't think I've seen another group of protesters break into stores and steal stuff and smash vehicles indiscriminately in their own communities when they get angry. Besides pouring the Boston Tea in the harbor.

Edited: I went looking for what you were talking about with Wounded Knee, and found something in 1973. Hmmmm, you're right.

Penn State 2012
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef015392f13543970b-600wi

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enh...10/enhanced-buzz-wide-12372-1320937677-50.jpg

 

[Gardenlady]

I am educated, actually, and have always been very interested in immigrant groups and assimilation. One thing that does stand out clearly - groups who relocate THEMSELVES assimilate well, and thrive after an initial bumpy start. Groups that are relocated against their wills don't. They never really take hold, and never experience "thriving" the way those who chose to relocate. And Native Americans who are languishing in the Reservations and the AA population never has been able to assimilate the way groups who brought themselves here or relocated themselves within the US as their own choice.

I agree with you here. Those whose arrival, relocation, and/or forced joining into society obviously will suffer much more difficulty than those who came freely yet were still marginalized. The problems are similar yet very different. Especially when for blacks, legalized discrimination continued right up until relatively recent history.

My reference to other groups acting out in retaliatory violence was merely to show that "a certain group" (which, let's be honest, is code for black Americans) is not the only group to ever resort to retaliatory violence in the face of marginalization discrimination, and brutal tactics on the part of government forces.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Beaglemania]

What is happening in Ferguson is so similar to the Cincinnati Riots in 2001, just uncanny parallels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

The Cincinnati riots of 2001 were a series of civil disorders which took place in and around the Over-the-Rhine neighborhood of downtown Cincinnati, Ohio from April 9 to 13, 2001. The riots were the largest urban disturbance in the United States since the 1992 Los Angeles riots.
The riots were sparked after 19-year-old African American Timothy Thomas was shot and killed by Cincinnati Police Department Patrolman Stephen Roach. Tensions, which were already high following a series of other incidents of alleged police brutality and racial profiling, erupted into four nights of rioting in Cincinnati, with rioters throwing objects at police, vandalizing and looting businesses before a curfew effectively ended the unrest.
Ultimately it was determined the riots caused $3.6 million in damage to businesses and another $1.5 to $2 million to the city. A subsequent boycott of downtown businesses had an estimated impact of $10 million to the downtown area, and coincided with a rise in violent crime in the downtown area for several years thereafter.

 

[Gardenlady]

I am educated, actually, and have always been very interested in immigrant groups and assimilation. One thing that does stand out clearly - groups who relocate THEMSELVES assimilate well, and thrive after an initial bumpy start. Groups that are relocated against their wills don't. They never really take hold, and never experience "thriving" the way those who chose to relocate. And Native Americans who are languishing in the Reservations and the AA population never has been able to assimilate the way groups who brought themselves here or relocated themselves within the US as their own choice.

Also I meant to add - I have no doubt you are an educated person. But we all suffer from gaps. Some parts of history as brushed over. Students and adults too never learn about them. When I said "it's your responsibility to educate yourself", I mean only that the duty to do so lies in each of us. If we find ourselves holding a belief like "other groups did not engage in violent riots" then we need to make sure that is true - and do the research for ourselves, rather than expect others to educate us. It always comes across to me sort of like saying "prove to me that you aren't a violent criminal!" Or "prove to me that the sky is blue!"



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Beaglemania]

A history of riots in the United States:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_riots#Nativist_Period_1700s-1860Civil War Period 1861-1865

Nativist Period 1700s-1860
&#8226; 1824: Providence, Rhode Island Hard Scrabble Riots
&#8226; 1829: Cincinnati riots of 1829 Rioting against African Americans results in over a thousand leaving for Canada.
&#8226; 1829: Charlestown Anti-Catholic Riots
&#8226; 1831: Providence, Rhode Island
&#8226; 1834: Massachusetts Convent Burning
&#8226; 1834: Philadelphia pro-slavery riots[30]
&#8226; 1835: Five Points Riot
&#8226; 1835: Washington, D.C.[31][32]
&#8226; 1836: Cincinnati riots of 1836 - Several anti-abolitionist riots
&#8226; 1841: Cincinnati, Ohio White Irish-descendant and Irish immigrant dock workers rioted against Black dock workers. When the Black dock workers banded together to defend their community from the approaching Whites, the White rioters retreated and then commandeered a 6-pound cannon and shot it through the streets of Cincinnati.
&#8226; 1844: Philadelphia Nativist Riots (May 6&#8211;8, July 5&#8211;8)
&#8226; 1851: Hoboken Anti-German Riot
1863: New York City Draft Riot
&#8226; 1863: Detroit Race Riot
Reconstruction Period: 1865 - 1877[edit]
&#8226; 1866: New Orleans Riot
&#8226; 1866: Memphis, Tennessee
&#8226; 1868: Pulaski Riot
&#8226; 1868: Opelousas, Louisiana
&#8226; 1868: Camilla, Georgia
&#8226; 1870: Eutaw, Alabama
&#8226; 1870: Laurens, South Carolina
&#8226; 1870: New York City Orange Riot
&#8226; 1871: Second New York City Orange Riot
&#8226; 1871: Los Angeles Anti-Chinese Riot
&#8226; 1871: Meridian, Mississippi
&#8226; 1891: New Orleans Anti-Italian Riot
&#8226; 1873: Colfax massacre
&#8226; 1874: Vicksburg, Mississippi
&#8226; 1874: New Orleans, Louisiana {Liberty place riot see[33]}
&#8226; 1874: Coushatta, Louisiana
&#8226; 1875: Yazoo City, Mississippi
&#8226; 1875: Clinton, Mississippi
&#8226; 1876: Hamburg Massacre
&#8226; 1876: Ellenton, South Carolina
Jim Crow Period: 1878 - 1914[edit]
&#8226; 1885: Anti-Chinese riot in Rock Springs, Wyoming Territory
&#8226; 1886: Seattle riot of 1886[34]
&#8226; 1898: Wilmington Insurrection of 1898[35]
&#8226; 1898: Lake City, South Carolina
&#8226; 1898: Greenwood County, South Carolina
&#8226; 1900: Robert Charles Riots
&#8226; 1900: New York City
&#8226; 1906: Atlanta Race Riot[36]
&#8226; 1906: Brownsville, Texas
&#8226; 1907: Onancock, Virginia
&#8226; 1907: Pacific Coast Race Riots of 1907
&#8226; 1908: Springfield Race Riot of 1908[37]
&#8226; 1909: Omaha, Nebraska anti-Greek riot
&#8226; 1910: Nationwide riots following the heavyweight championship fight between Jack Johnson and Jim Jeffries in Reno, Nevada on July 4
War and inter-war period: 1914&#8211;1945[edit]
&#8226; 1917: East St. Louis Riot[38]
&#8226; 1917: Chester, Pennsylvania
&#8226; 1917: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
&#8226; 1917: Houston Riot
&#8226; Red Summer of 1919
o 1919: Washington, D.C.
o 1919: Chicago Race Riot of 1919[39]
o 1919: Omaha Race Riot of 1919
o 1919: Charleston, South Carolina
o 1919: Longview, Texas
o 1919: Knoxville Riot of 1919
o 1919: Elaine Race Riot
&#8226; 1921: Tulsa race riot (Tulsa, Oklahoma)[40]
&#8226; 1923: Rosewood massacre (Rosewood, Florida)[41]
&#8226; 1927: Yakima Valley Anti-Filipino Riot[42]
&#8226; 1928: Wenatchee Valley Anti-Filipino Riot[42]
&#8226; 1929: Exeter Anti-Filipino Riot[43]
&#8226; 1930: Watsonville Anti-Filipino Riots, which inspired race riots in San Francisco, Salinas and San Jose and attacks elsewhere.[43]
&#8226; 1935: Harlem Riot of 1935
&#8226; 1943: Detroit Race Riot[44]
&#8226; 1943: Beaumont Race Riot of 1943
&#8226; 1943: Harlem Riot of 1943
&#8226; 1943: Zoot Suit Riots
Postwar era: 1946 - 1954[edit]
&#8226; 1946: Columbia, Tennessee Riot
&#8226; 1949: Peekskill Riots
&#8226; 1951: Cicero Race Riot in Illinois
Civil Rights and Black Power Movement's Period: 1955 - 1977[edit]
&#8226; 1958: Battle of Hayes Pond (Maxton, North Carolina)
&#8226; 1963: Birmingham Riot of 1963, Birmingham, Alabama
&#8226; 1963: Cambridge riot of 1963 (Cambridge, Maryland)
&#8226; 1963: Lexington Riot, Lexington, North Carolina [45]
&#8226; 1964: Harlem Riot of 1964 (Harlem neighborhood, Manhattan, New York City)
&#8226; 1964: Rochester riot (Rochester, New York)
&#8226; 1964: Philadelphia 1964 race riot (North Philadelphia section of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
&#8226; 1965: Watts Riots (Watts neighborhood, Los Angeles, California)
&#8226; 1966: Division Street Riots (Humboldt Park neighborhood, Chicago, Illinois)
&#8226; 1966: Hough Riots (Hough community, Cleveland, Ohio)
&#8226; 1966: North Omaha, Nebraska (North Omaha community, Omaha, Nebraska)
&#8226; Long Hot Summer of 1967
o 1967: Tampa Riots, (Tampa, Florida)
o 1967: Texas Southern University Riot (Houston, Texas)
o 1967: 1967 Detroit riot (Detroit, Michigan)
o 1967: Buffalo riot (Buffalo, New York)
o 1967: Milwaukee Riot (Milwaukee, Wisconsin)
o 1967: Minneapolis North Side Riots (Minneapolis, Minnesota)
o 1967: 1967 Newark riots (Newark, New Jersey)
o 1967: Plainfield riots (Plainfield, New Jersey)
&#8226; Protests of 1968
&#8226; 1968: Orangeburg massacre (Orangeburg, South Carolina)
&#8226; 1968: Nationwide riots following the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr.
o 1968: Baltimore riot of 1968 (Baltimore, Maryland)
o 1968: Chicago (April 1968) (Chicago, Illinois)
o 1968: Louisville riots of 1968 (Louisville, Kentucky)
o 1968: 1968 Washington, D.C. riots (Washington, D.C.)
&#8226; 1969: 1969 York Race Riot (York, Pennsylvania)
&#8226; 1970: May 11th Race Riot (Augusta, Georgia)
&#8226; 1970: Jackson State killings (Jackson, Mississippi)
&#8226; 1971: Camden Riots (Camden, New Jersey)
&#8226; 1972-1977: Escambia High School riots (Pensacola, Florida)
&#8226; 1975: Chaffey High School Race Riot enhanced by local sniper (Ontario, California)
&#8226; 1978: Houston's Moody Park on the first anniversary of Joe Campos Torres death.
&#8226; 1980: Miami Riots (Miami, Florida)
&#8226; 1980: Chattanooga Riot (Chattanooga, Tennessee)
&#8226; 1984: Lawrence, Massachusetts Race Riot: A small scale riot centered at the intersection of Haverhill and railroad streets between working class whites and Hispanics; several buildings were destroyed by Molotov cocktails; August 8, 1984.[46]
&#8226; 1989: Overtown Riot (Miami, FL) In a reaction to the shooting of a black motorcyclist by a Hispanic police officer in the predominately black community of Overtown in Miami, residents rioted for two nights. The officer was later found guilty of manslaughter.
&#8226; 1991: Crown Heights riot (Crown Heights neighborhood, Brooklyn, New York City)
&#8226; 1992: Los Angeles Riots (Los Angeles, California): In a reaction to the acquittal of all four LAPD officers involved in the videotaped beating of Rodney King and the murder of Latasha Harlins; riots broke out mainly involving black youths in the black neighborhoods and shop owners in Korean neighborhoods, but overall rioting was mainly to get out the frustrations of the racial groups over the racial tensions that were building in the South Central neighborhood for years[citation needed].
&#8226; 1996: St. Petersburg Riots (St. Petersburg, Florida): After Officer Jim Knight stopped 18 yr. old Tyron Lewis for speeding, his car lurched forward and Knight fired his weapon, fatally wounding the black teenager. Riots broke out and lasted for about 2 days.[citation needed]
&#8226; 2001: Cincinnati riots (Cincinnati, Ohio): In a reaction to the acquittal of Steven Roach after the fatal shooting of an unarmed young black male, Timothy Thomas, during a foot pursuit, riots broke out over the span of a few days.
&#8226; 2003: Benton Harbor riots (Benton Harbor, Michigan)
&#8226; 2005: 2005 Toledo Riot (Toledo, Ohio): A race riot that broke out after a planned Neo-Nazi protest march through a black neighborhood.
&#8226; 2006: Fontana High School riot (Fontana, California): Riot involving about 500 Latino and black students[47]
&#8226; 2006: Prison Race Riots (California): A war between Latino and black prison gangs set off a series of riots across California[48][49]
&#8226; 2008: Locke High School riot[50] (Los Angeles, California)
&#8226; 2009: 2009 Oakland Riots (Oakland, California): Peaceful protests turned into rioting after the fatal shooting of an unarmed black man, Oscar Grant, by a BART transit policeman.
&#8226; 2014: Shooting of Michael Brown, later riots break out after the shooting was believed to be racially motivated.

 

[Gardenlady]

Sorry to hear what you went through, truly. My only point is...if, at the point he was holding a knife on you, if you knew he would peacefully leave if you said the words "Ok, you win." would you have said them? If you think that just saying the words, even if you don't mean them, would result in him dropping his knife and walking away, I would strongly encourage you...say the words. Worry about sorting out justice later.

I just wanted to say this is a great example of de-escalation. When we are more concerned about peaceful outcomes, and less concerned about "winning", then we all win. We live to see another day when the possibility of justice can then be addressed.

When an already emotional crowd is met with militarized police forces, it's the exact opposite. I cannot fathom why peoe are surprised that this only serves to escalate tensions and inflame people who are already justifiably angry and emotional.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[popsicle]

David Carson &#8207;@PDPJ 49s
#Ferguson police showed up, blocked traffic while hurt protester was moved, as cops left someone threw plastic water hit cop car, 1/2

 

[popsicle]

David Carson &#8207;@PDPJ 19s
#Ferguson crowd admonished person who threw water bottle cried out "no" police didn't react left scene

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by Russ Ptacek, WUSA9
​

​

​

Dara Baldwin &#8207;@NJDC07 1h
@RussPtacek I am in Malcolm X park in #DC mourning the lives lost to Police Brutality #PEACEFULLY! #NMOS2014
​

​

​

 

[popsicle]

David Carson &#8207;@PDPJ 7m
#Ferguson confusion rising, traffic getting backed up, some chants, peace seems to be winning, it's getting dark, largest crowd of any night

 

[reedus23]

I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'm kind of holding my breath right now. Sounds like some are there trying to provoke. If they do I think they might get beat down. But not by LE. I think the locals very well may do it.

 

[popsicle]

People are all in the road, waking right in front of vehicles and they have to to drive in the middle of both lanes. jmo

 

[Gardenlady]

I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'm kind of holding my breath right now. Sounds like some are there trying to provoke. If they do I think they might get beat down. But not by LE. I think the locals very well may do it.

You aren't the only one. But really, I guess, what can one do? There are always opportunists waiting to take advantage of any situation. It's just sad that when the opportunist is white, majority of people will say "oh, he is an outlier, most folks are there for peaceful protest". But if the opportunist is a person of color, then he becomes an example, a representative of the entire group. It's an impossible standard that can never be met. An entire people should not be treated as responsible for the actions of individuals - and really, that goes to the heart of the matter here - black men as a whole held to a different standard, made to bear more responsibility because of the actions of other individual black men. :sigh:





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk