MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

[jjenny]

Sunday I asked a cop at the gun range who was there practicing if warning shots, or shots to disable someone are ever taken, and he said absolutely not. I then asked him about the whole MB thing, and he said once an officer decided to shoot, that they shoot until the person is stopped, whatever that takes.

Eta: very nice officer btw, even helped me attach my new scope on my AR.

Yes, police don't do warning shots. Warning shots could easily hit a bystander so that is not acceptable.
Also why they are trained to shoot into the center of the body as opposed to an arm or the leg. So the bullet doesn't miss and doesn't hit a bystander.

 

[jjenny]

I have stated from the start I don't know if OW is quilty of a crime. Some posters have cited statutes giving le authority to shoot @ fleeing felons. Heres what I am having trouble with. If OW did nothing wrong in shooting at MB as he fled, was there a way for MB to surrender in a way that it would not be ok for OW to shoot him? Any thoughts?

Police can shoot a fleeing felon if that felon is dangerous. There is a debate whether police officer could/should have considered MB dangerous.
As for surrendering, MB could have not fled and surrendered that way.

 

[Sonya610]

I have stated from the start I don't know if OW is quilty of a crime. Some posters have cited statutes giving le authority to shoot @ fleeing felons. Heres what I am having trouble with. If OW did nothing wrong in shooting at MB as he fled, was there a way for MB to surrender in a way that it would not be ok for OW to shoot him? Any thoughts?

My thoughts are if MB FROZE trying to surrender then OW wouldn't have had to shoot him 6 times.

Do you think IF OW decided to execute an "innocent child" like MB while he was surrendering Officer Wilson would use him as target practice and aim for MB's arm 4 times before hitting him in the head????

Think about that. Realistically even if MB tried to stay in that "surrendering posture with his hands up" he would NEVER have lasted that long and taken 4 shots to the arm before he received 2 head shots. He would have hit the ground LONG before the last shot!

 

[CARIIS]

we want to demonstrate to show the world how LE violates folks; so lets g:
, chuck movtol cocktails indicrimatatly, paralize a complete community for days, loot for days, shoot people, rip out road signs,commit arson,strong arms robbery, hang with friedns who have arrenst warrents,have no emploment history thus far i) inciatoor of pot (pot is fine - IMO) but can be illustration other histories,

what am I missing?

One thing that never ceases to amaze me. How so many smell money in the wake of a tragedy. Attorneys to set up wrongful death lawsuits way before their time. Quickly set up "fund me" site to collect money and donations. Protect the funds in a "foundation" to protect it from taxation and employ family and attorneys as officers and directors for the future. And for sure multiple attorneys to protect the "legacy" of a young man that robbed a convenience store 15 minutes prior to his death, and assaulted a police officer.

Even a film director and entertainment mogul to fly in for the funeral. After all someone is smelling a movie and song coming on. Everyone dressed to the nines, respectful, joyful and truly celebrating life. Even if lies were to be told in that MB was "spreading the word of the Lord" on the very day he died. More importantly, I have learned (so far) that if the family asked for peace and no protests or demonstrations their wishes would be respected. And Lord only knows if that had happened two weeks ago how much could have been avoided.

But the protests and destruction has been the news. And as long as that has happened the money has been rolling in.

JMO's

 

[Sonya610]

we want to demonstrate to show the world how LE violates folks; so lets g:, chuck movtol cocktails indicrimatatly, lift up road signs,commit arson,strong arms robbery, hang with friedns who have arrenst warrents,have no emploment history thus far i) inciatoor of pot (pot is fine - IMO) but can be illustration other histories,

what am I missing?

They are just protesting the fact they believe they are profiled as possible criminals by the police.

 

[oh_gal]

I think they have. I think they've been told he was minding his own business, walking to his gramma's house, and for no reason a white cop nearly ran him over with his car and then put him in a headlock, and then either shot him in the back 6 times as he was running for his life or shot him 6 times at close range, execution-style. is what I think

It appears then that they have not been told what happened, merely a one-sided and incomplete accounting of what happened, with huge gaps not filled in.

 

[Linda7NJ]

My thoughts are if MB FROZE trying to surrender then OW wouldn't have had to shoot him 6 times.

Do you think IF OW decided to execute an "innocent child" like MB while he was surrendering Officer Wilson would use him as target practice and aim for MB's arm 4 times before hitting him in the head????

Think about that. Realistically even if MB tried to stay in that "surrendering posture with his hands up" he would NEVER have lasted that long and taken 4 shots to the arm before he received 2 head shots. He would have hit the ground LONG before the last shot!

Suge Knight was shot 6 times...3 in the stomach answered his cell and walked out to the ambulance.

Source..tmz




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[branwynbreeze]

If we took race out of this, do you think Police brutality charge could be filed based on what we know?

 

[bettybaby00]

I have stated from the start I don't know if OW is quilty of a crime. Some posters have cited statutes giving le authority to shoot @ fleeing felons. Heres what I am having trouble with. If OW did nothing wrong in shooting at MB as he fled, was there a way for MB to surrender in a way that it would not be ok for OW to shoot him? Any thoughts?

It's a good question, but again, I'm not sure how much that idea will factor into evaluating justified vs unjustified.

Someone willing to assault, and try to grab a LEOs weapon is going to be considered one of the greatest types of threats LE faces. Given that, it's not a negotiable situation.

MB made several very bad decisions...
1)chose to willfully ignore the officers directive to get out of the middle of the street...immediately, not when it was convenient for them
2)officer circles back b/c he was ignored. It's seems likely MB &/or DJ mouthed off in some way
3)it escalates, and gets physical
4)goes for officers weapon

In this situation 1 led to 4 and once you move past 3 it's likely not going to end well. #4 almost assuredly guarantees a fatal outcome. It's a POINT OF NO RETURN.

If at any point during 1 or 2 he had backed off and said, "I'm sorry officer, it won't happen again," then it could have all ended differently. But he didn't.

The confrontation at the car can't be separated from the officer's use of deadly force. It can't, and it certainly won't be by the GJ and/or the prosecutor.

Of course the above assumes this is how it all transpired. And IMO, based on what we know, it's what happened.

 

[branwynbreeze]

Has everyone forgotten about strong arm robbery 10 mins. before? That would have been a felony charge, correct?

Retweeted by Greg Jonsson
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Koran Addo ‏@KoranAddo 3m
St. Louis U students walk out of first day of classes in support of #MikeBrown
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Retweeted by Greg Jonsson
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Koran Addo ‏@KoranAddo 6m
St. Louis U students observing a moment of silence for #MikeBrown

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[Lovejac]

The only hope for Ferguson I see is the arrival of another Reuben Greenberg. Or, even better, coax the original out of retirement long enough to set Ferguson on the right path.

http://www.ajlmagazine.com/content/012007/reubengreenberg.html
http://thetandd.com/news/opinion/a-...cle_e21e5a9f-fcbe-5171-96ac-8cb72ce5af64.html
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20080413/PC1602/304139879

Yep, I'm proud to say he's from round my parts! An amazing man who knows know strangers.

He is the type of person that Ferguson desperately needs :sigh:

 

[bettybaby00]

It appears then that they have not been told what happened, merely a one-sided and incomplete accounting of what happened, with huge gaps not filled in.

Ya think? And when you have local and federal officials as well as "activists" validating the misinformation it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Lovejac]

IMO, race is a non issue here because no matter what the color of one's skin is, if they attack a uniformed police officer, beat him in the face, and try to take his weapon, I would expect the attacker would be shot and killed. Whether the attacker was black or white, I believe the results would be the same.

ITA. As well it should be.

 

[jggordo]

I don't know how to bring a post forward from a previous thread. It is #1079 from thread #10. This outlines the times of the convenience store robbery and when the bolo went out as the description of those suspects. Based on this I believe OW after telling them to get out of the street rolled on past. But after rolling past heard the descriptions over the radio and what was stolen. Knowing MB was carrying those items, stopped threw it in reverse causing the tires to screetch and backed up. Then all hell broke loose because MB knew he was about to be arrested.

JMO's

11.48am - Officer Darren Wilson and an ambulance crew were at an unrelated call about a sick person
11.51am - A 911 call comes in about a 'strong- armed' robbery at a nearby convenience store
11.52am - Police radio dispatch gives a description of two robbery suspects who assaulted a clerk and stole Swisher Sweet cigars. The clerk says the suspects were walking toward the QuickTrip gas station
12.01pm – Officer Wilson encounters Michael Brown walking in the middle of the street in the 2900 block of Canfield Drive. The officer shoots Brown dead following an altercation
12.04pm – A second officer arrives on scene and the ambulance from the sick call arrives to give Brown medical attention. He is declared dead at the scene
12.05pm – A supervisor arrives at the scene of the shooting




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ael-Brown.html

 

[CARIIS]

As far as freezing goes IMO, in conjuction with a bulletproof back the officer descibed him lunging towrd him, which is identical to the behaviors we saw moments earlier when interacting with two law obifing folks (store owner seem not to be breaking any laws.

 

[branwynbreeze]

Agree with this post. I feel they are using misguided judgement. Yes police brutality and racism should be addressed, but what about shopkeeper MB robbed moments before? Does anyone know what race he is? My eyes aren't as good as they use to be. How about working on community where shopkeepers are not in fear of locals robbing them for starters. JMO

It's believed this tragedy has "exposed" many struggles within the black community, regarding perceived police brutality, racism, profiling etc.

And although many communities deal with these issues, melding that fight with the death of MB becomes problematic b/c his death hasn't been proven to be the result of those issues.

In certain regions and communities this a problem, often a big problem, and should be addressed. calling OW a murderer/executioner, and insisting that the only way "justice" can be served is through his immediate arrest and conviction before an investigation is even completed, isn't going to resolve any of these issues.

How much more angry and disenfranchised is this community going to feel if no indictment is returned b/c his actions prove justified under the law.

Change can/and should happen. But the laws governing the potential lethal consequences that may occur when someone assaults an officer, and attempts to gain control of their gun are not going to change. They can't.

JMO eace:

 

[mikeysmommom]

Lesson learned the hard way IMO.You do not attack a police officer unless you have a death wish. How can anyone expect a police officer to allow a criminal to attack him?Police have the right to shoot you if you attack them.MB did vomit a felony just a few minutes before being stopped, so he was a criminal.A black cop shot an unarmed white teen and he died, where are his demonstration? Why has Obama not commented ?Why is that officer not in hiding? I watched the video when he was shot.People came out and were saying the cop shot him for no reason,when in fact none witnessed what actually happened.Then a man said he saw the teen attack the cop when he was in the car.No way did the accomplice story make any sense. No way did the officer pull him into the car window.IMO This is nothing more then race baiting to raise money and an excuse to rob and loot.If the Grand Jury is honest ,no charges will be filed.Hopefully a good officer will be cleared and should be given an apology by all those who have tried to tarnish his name including Obama.

 

[katydid23]

I don't know how to bring a post forward from a previous thread. It is #1079 from thread #10. This outlines the times of the convenience store robbery and when the bolo went out as the description of those suspects. Based on this I believe OW after telling them to get out of the street rolled on past. But after rolling past heard the descriptions over the radio and what was stolen. Knowing MB was carrying those items, stopped threw it in reverse causing the tires to screetch and backed up. Then all hell broke loose because MB knew he was about to be arrested.

JMO's


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ael-Brown.html

So when you say ' all hell broke loose' what does that mean? In your version of events, I mean. Because in my version of events, in my mind, that means that as soon as the cop backed up, MB KNEW he was about to be arrested for the robbery. And he was going to do everything and anything to prevent that. The cop tries to exit his vehicle, and MB pounces immediately, shoves him back in the car,, and it's on. jmo

 

[branwynbreeze]

Also OW had two men to try to keep an eye on while not knowing if they were armed. DJ claims he was still by SUV until shot(s) were fired IIRC.

It's pretty ridiculous when you think about it, no? I mean, honestly, what would OW have had to gain by pulling MB into the vehicle? I mean...first of all, where would he put him? I really don't think he could have ever expected MB to fit into the driver's seat with him, right? Honestly, where do people even come up with this stuff? They hear it...sounds good...go with it...and then refuse to back down off of it...as if saying something ludicrous enough times will somehow eventually make it sound believable. :gaah:

 

[tandt]

I'm pretty firm in belief based on what has been put out that this was a justified shooting by the officer.

But I watched a few minutes of the funeral today and was struck by MB's mother. While some of the service seemed a bit theatrical and some pandering to the cameras/crowd, she has a sadness on her face that is undeniable. I don't know circumstances of her relationship w/ MB or history, but my heart really breaks for her. It felt obvious that the service could have been 10 people, all simply sitting around to chat about MB before laying him to rest and she would have loved it. I didn't sense the pomp & circumstance got her her, where I sensed it with other members of the family.

I pray she can find peace & help that community look within & reach out so this doesn't happen again.