MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

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Does that look as if it is blood on the brim of his hat?
 
popsicle said:
[h=1]Attorney General Koster to push for more minorities in law enforcement
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/24/attor...-push-for-more-minorities-in-law-enforcement/[/h]
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Morning Poppy!

I was watching Fox last night and it said even though Ferguson is predominately AA only around 20% vote.

Also to be a police officer nowadays one must have a high school diploma and also many departments require some type of college degree now. I know our local police department does. We have a state college near us and many get criminology degrees there and then go into police work after graduating.

I wonder what percentage of the AAs there graduate high school or gets a college degree? If it is very low then that may be the reason there are so few on the police force there. Many threads ago I believe I did see a local poster say she/he saw ads wanting minorities as police officers urging them to apply.

So if the AA leaders are really wanting more minorities on the police force the best thing they could do in order to achieve that is to stress to the AA community that the children must stay in school and graduate and then go on to get a college degree.

They should also tell the AA community to get more involved in local, state, and federal elections, and vote if they want change.
 
popsicle said:
“I’m a little shocked,” said Doris Stewart, the aunt of the man arrested in the vehicle, after learning for the first time this weekend that her nephew’s arrest had resulted in an award for the same officer who had fatally shot Mr. Brown. “I’m also a little relieved that he wasn’t badly injured,” she said of her nephew Christopher Brooks, who, like Mr. Brown, is black.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

What is the point in that? Was he roughed up or anything?
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IMO, the point was that the WaPo's recent hit-piece on DW, despite 9 diligent dirt-diggers doing their darndest, came up dirtless:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/darren-wilsons-first-job-was-on-a-troubled-police-force-disbanded-by-authorities/2014/08/23/1ac796f0-2a45-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html?tid=pm_national_pop

Not to be outdone, the NYT dispatched 6 diligent dirt-diggers and, also finding no dirt on DW, had to resort to printing the opinion of a DW's arrestee's aunt, who also had nothing bad to say about Ofc. Wilson.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
 
Apollo said:
That was Baden's autopsy report that said there was no gunpowder on Brown's body. How about the original autopsy?
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Her autopsy hasn't been released. I think it will be, even if it's through a FIOA request. The only thing that's been reported is was that short snippet of "shot multiple times in arm and chest," is how I believe it was termed, I will look for link.

In my search, I came across this article. Very informative. It's a little lengthy, and has a few comments regarding autopsies that the very squeamish, might well, get squeamish. Great read though IMO.

(CNN) -- Michael Brown, Eric Garner and John Crawford all have one thing in common: It's not just that they were unarmed men of color killed by police officers -- it's that the responsibility to investigate each of their deaths fell to a medical examiner.

We medical examiners investigate all homicides and violent deaths, and it is also part of our legal duty to investigate any death of a person under the control of, or in the custody of, a law enforcement agent.
I have worked as a medical examiner for 13 years in four large cities in the United States. Medical examiner offices are independent public agencies, and one of our responsibilities is to act as quality control over law enforcement agencies. The medical examiner is the final arbiter of whether a death was the direct result of an arrest, or, instead, the result of natural disease or an incidental event.

Medical examiner reports in most states are public records. We all deserve and should expect transparency in death investigation. The family of the deceased, the news media and anyone who asks for it can get a copy of the medical examiner's or coroner's autopsy report on any case that is not sealed as part of an active investigation.


Medical examiners are physicians, specialists in forensic pathology. We are professionally protective of our independence. We know that it is our duty and responsibility, as the doctors who perform the autopsy, to speak for the dead.

Unfortunately, in the wake of the death of a civilian at the hand of police officers, the public is often suspicious of the medical examiner.

Because the law requires a local government agency to perform the death investigation, people often assume that this agency falls under the jurisdiction or influence of the police. News reports critical of the amount of time the dead body was left at the scene, or the amount of time it takes to get a final autopsy report, exacerbate this distrust.

In St. Louis County, Missouri, where Michael Brown was autopsied, Dr. Mary Case, the chief medical examiner, is a board-certified forensic pathologist. She has years of experience and reports to the Health Department, not the police.

Brown's official autopsy report was expedited and finalized on Monday. It was made available to the prosecuting attorney, who is now in charge of any release of information.

Why does a death scene investigation take so long? An outdoor death scene is a messy and complicated place. As soon as the person has been declared dead, the area has to be frozen in time to ensure that we, the public, can later learn what really happened there. Crime scene photographers and trained evidence collection analysts have to "process the scene," an hourslong procedure when done properly. The body, the position of any vehicles, the lighting, the height of adjacent structures --everything needs to be photographed from multiple angles. In a shooting, crime scene investigators will have to measure and document the number and location of the casings, bullets and strike marks. If the evidence and its undisturbed location are not documented in this painstaking way, then criminal or civil complaints against the officer may not stand up in court.

But what about the autopsy report? Why does that take so long? That's because a competent job in the morgue, too, takes time. The work I do as a doctor in the autopsy suite after a typical gunshot wound homicide case may take three or four hours to complete, but after I leave the morgue, the report is not done.

I have to wait for the report from the toxicology lab, which usually takes a minimum of two weeks, and for histology slides to come back before I can examine them under a microscope. Any of these findings could impact the cause of death.

Even gunshot wounds cannot be interpreted in a vacuum. As part of an investigation I have to try to figure out which defects in the body come from bullets entering, and which from their exit. Usually these wounds are distinctly different in appearance, but the more complex the body position of the deceased, the more complicated things get. Exit wounds in flesh pressed against the ground or against tight clothing can appear just like entrance wounds. An entrance wound inflicted through an intermediary target that deformed the bullet can look just like an exit wound. Sometimes I have to wait for the police reports or witness transcripts in to correctly interpret what I see on the body in the autopsy suite.
After the shooting in Ferguson, Michael Brown's family hired Dr. Michael Baden, a former New York State Police medical examiner, to conduct a second autopsy, and the federal Department of Justice instructed the Armed Forces Medical Examiner to conduct a third.

What you can tell from a second or third autopsy is limited by autopsy artifact -- changes to the evidence caused by the performance of the first autopsy. In the course of the first, legally mandated autopsy, the forensic pathologist will have taken the organs out and sliced them apart for examination. The gunshot wounds will have been probed, and sometimes even cut into. More importantly, any pathologist hired by the family, regardless of expertise, does not have access to the crime scene and other evidence. Even Baden, in the report he prepared for the Brown family, concluded that without the clothing, evidence or scene information, he had "too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting."

Why weren't the St. Louis medical examiner's autopsy findings made public immediately? Because releasing preliminary information when the investigation is still ongoing is premature and potentially inflammatory. Already the results of Baden's limited investigation are being used to support the contention that Brown was surrendering, and that the wounds were distant range, even though Baden himself said neither. To a forensic pathologist, the body diagram Brown's attorneys released tells a different story. The wound at the top of the head, the frontal wounds and angled right hand and arm wounds suggest that the victim was facing the officer, leaning forward with his right arm possibly extended in line with the gun's barrel, and not above his head. The image of a person standing upright with his hands in the air when he was shot does not appear compatible with the wounds documented on that diagram. Whether a forward-leaning position is a posture of attack or of surrender, however, is a matter of perspective. From the perspective of a witness, it could appear that the leaning person is complying with the officer and getting down. From the perspective of the officer, he may appear to be coming at him. Partial evidence yields partial answers, and a rush to conclusions based on one isolated set of data from a second autopsy only raises more questions.

That is why it is so important to be patient and wait for all the scene information to come to light.
But "be patient and wait" is not a demand that anyone has the right to make on a family that has lost a loved one in a sudden and violent event. When I have been assigned to investigate an in-custody or officer-involved death, I will often call the family right away. It's important to me to reach out to them, to tell the people who are awaiting answers from me that I am qualified to do the job I am trained for; that I will hide nothing from them; that everything I do on their behalf will be part of the public record; and to give them some idea of how long the process might take. When the report is finished, I meet with family members or their attorneys to discuss the findings and explain the medical diagnoses I have come to. This solemn conference takes place behind the scenes, months after the incident, and is never reported in the news media -- but it is probably the most important part of my job.

As a doctor and a civil servant, I take my public role seriously. I strive to with all my ability, training and effort to answer any questions that person's family may have. I know that others in my field strive with the same effort. It's why we went into our field of medicine. We are servants of the public -- not of the state, not of any single law firm, and not of the police.
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/20/opinion/melinek-michael-brown-autopsy/index.html

Emphasis mine.
 
LambChop said:
Does that look as if it is blood on the brim of his hat?
Click to expand...

I wondered that too but then the article attached to the tweet up-thread, where the family was interviewed last night... after they closed his casket they placed that hat on top. Would they do that if it had blood on it or maybe they cleaned it?
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Morning Poppy!

I was watching Fox last night and it said even though Ferguson is predominately AA only around 20% vote.

Also to be a police officer nowadays one must have a high school diploma and also many departments require some type of college degree now. I know our local police department does. We have a state college near us and many get criminology degrees there and then go into police work after graduating.

I wonder what percentage of the AAs there graduate high school or gets a college degree? If it is very low then that may be the reason there are so few on the police force there. Many threads ago I believe I did see a local poster say she/he saw ads wanting minorities as police officers urging them to apply.

So if the AA leaders are really wanting more minorities on the police force the best thing they could do in order to achieve that is to stress to the AA community that the children must stay in school and graduate and then go on to get a college degree.

They should also tell the AA community to get more involved in local, state, and federal elections, and vote if they want change.
Click to expand...

Same here.
But they must also pass a psychological evaluation, exams, successfully complete the police academy and a criminal background check. Iirc they even look closely as juvenile records.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
QUESTION: For those of you still giving a lot of weight to the witness accounts, please stop the video at link below at 0:48. If that is Wilson's SUV (one that is tied off with crime scene tape to hydrant) and that is the location it was parked at when Wilson exited the vehicle, which at this point I believe it is, can you please explain how Piaget (who shot this video from the same perspective she claims to have witnessed the event) could see a "tussle" between Brown and Wilson? This is one of those questions that often get overlooked, so please step up if you have an answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=advkpZIuq2U
 
Sonya610 said:
Interesting at the link above Crump and some others are having a press conference. The drawings from the autopsy NOW show a bullet in the BACK of the right arm. That wasn't there when Baden turned out his report! http://fox2now.com/2014/08/24/fox2-to-carry-live-michael-browns-funeral/
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Baden's sidekick showed that one of the bullets could have been fired to the front or back of Brown. That would be the wound to the upper medial forearm. If palms are at the sides and facing the body that would place the position of the wound that would allow for a shot from the back. The next best position for this wound placement are many. IMO
 
Sonya610 said:
Interesting at the link above Crump and some others are having a press conference. The drawings from the autopsy NOW show a bullet in the BACK of the right arm. That wasn't there when Baden turned out his report! http://fox2now.com/2014/08/24/fox2-to-carry-live-michael-browns-funeral/
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That's completely outrageous!!

This is why IMO E. holder, the Gov., and anyone else in authority who is making statements on this shooting should be telling MBs family, as well as the people of ferguson HOW THIS PROCESS WORKS!!!!!!

They should be seeking to alleviate the negative emotions and distrust in this matter.
They should not be fueling distrust and misinforming the public. /so very annoyed
 
popsicle said:
I wondered that too but then the article attached to the tweet up-thread, where the family was interviewed last night... after they closed his casket they placed that hat on top. Would they do that if it had blood on it or maybe they cleaned it?
Click to expand...

I doubt it was that hat because it is evidence.
 
Frydaddy said:
I too have been trying to put all the photos of the police vehicles together, to determine the exact context of the theater of the shooting. The left yellow arrow is pointing to the wrong car (Wilson's, we think), if you point the arrow to the car in front of the man in shorts with his back to us, that is the car the arrows originate from. Note the location of the statie's car, the light standard and the no parking sign.

By all means though folks, keep sleuthing on the locations of landmarks, I feel it benefits the entire forum for us to gather this info accurately and I have certainly had to correct mice elf numerous times on this stuff. (Forgive shameless promotion of Sly Stone here!)

BTW, anyone know what the gray object next to the cone is, beyond Mike's hat? I believe that is going in the direction of Mike's body from the car.
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Sorry to quote mice elf, but is that one of Mike's slides (flip flops)? If you look at the video I posted in #73 and stop it at 0:48, the object is clearly in the street and gives a different aspect, upside down, heel pointing towards curb?
 
popsicle said:
Retweeted by FOX2now
​
​
​
Benjamin Crump, Esq. ‏@attorneycrump 15m
Media Alert: Funeral Arrangements for Michael Brown

View attachment 57535
​
​
​
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I am sorry and I sure don't want to offend anyone but this Media Alert makes me very sad and mad at the same time.

It is like they are making his funeral more about gathering more money than about Michael's life.

I could understand in lieu of flowers if they asked that funds be given to some kind of charity. I am not even sure why this fund is needed. The Browns have the state Prosecutor who doesn't cost them a dime and it will be up to him to bring justice for Michael. Or is this just a way for Crump to get paid? Who normally sends out a Media Alert like this before a funeral? I just find it so distasteful.

I did read this morning that those in charge of Officer Wilson's fund will shutdown during the time of Michael's funeral.
 
popsicle said:
Retweeted by FOX2now
​
Benjamin Crump, Esq. ‏@attorneycrump 15m
Media Alert: Funeral Arrangements for Michael Brown




​
Click to expand...

Thanks for providing this. I hope Michael Brown's family's ******** page gets a lot of donations in lieu of flowers. Money can't bring MB back to his family, of course. But it can make their lives a little easier at this tough time, lessen their financial burdens. I hope also that MB's family and friends find peace at his funeral. RIP Michael Brown
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I am sorry and I sure don't want to offend anyone but this Media Alert makes me very sad and mad at the same time.

It is like they are making his funeral more about gathering more money than about Michael's life.

I could understand in lieu of flowers if they asked that funds be given to some kind of charity. I am not even sure why this fund is needed. The Browns have the state Prosecutor who doesn't cost them a dime and it will be up to him to bring justice for Michael. Or is this just a way for Crump to get paid? Who normally sends out a Media Alert like this before a funeral? I just find it so distasteful.

I did read this morning that those in charge of Officer Wilson's fund will shutdown during the time of Michael's funeral.
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Me too Ocean....

IMO this was done by the people that have swooped in like vultures to pick the meat off the bones. It's all about money by those sending out press releases...and standing on that stage at Peace Fest yesterday. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1408973487.764058.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Frydaddy said:
BTW, anyone know what the gray object next to the cone is, beyond Mike's hat? I believe that is going in the direction of Mike's body from the car.
Click to expand...

I think it maybe MB's shoe. He was wearing some sort of sandal. See still from robbery below:

Robbery Still.jpg
 
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