MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #15

[Muffet]

From your link: " The family's attorney, Benjamin Crump, has refused to discuss whether Brown had a juvenile record."

Seems to me if MB didn't have a juvenile record, Crump would be screaming it from the roof tops. What reason woud he have for refusing to discuss it other than...............

All I needed that hear was this:

CUOMO: Daryl Parks, Chris Cuomo out here in Ferguson. Let me give you an opportunity to respond to a couple of points, a pushback that we've been hearing here as the case progresses.

First, what that Michael Brown past as a juvenile? There's speculation that, oh, it's inaccurate to say that there's nothing there. It's only as an adult there's nothing there. Is there any truth to that, that he had altercations or any kind of record as a juvenile?

PARKS: Let me say -- I'll say this, Chris. He was a typical kid. He may have had some situations that may have occurred as a juvenile, but, you know, we need not to be at a point where we start to blame the victim for what he did.
I think this officer's background is the one in question, because his actions are the ones that took Michael Brown's life.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/20/nday.03.html
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As usual, I want to know What lawyer answers like that if he could have said anything less, and not been fired?

Yet the media still reports that he had no criminal background. His mother assured them.

They ignore this tacit admission by the lawyer.


(I won't go on my soapbox about his idea of "typical kid.")

 

[reedus23]

Thanks all for helping clarify where the hearing was. Whichever media printed that it was in Division 2 probably just isn't familiar with how the courts here work. Judge McShane in Division 2 is the presiding judge, presiding over the entire St. Louis County Circuit Court, so whoever that was probably just assumed she was hearing it. Siwak is in the family courts building. Drove by it. Full parking lot. No camera crews I could see. So I went back to work. Well, the office. Obviously not working.

For whatever it's worth, while Siwak is extremely competent, I would feel much more confident with McShane. McShane just doesn't mess around. Siwak is a younger judge and I would be a bit concerned that she could get overwhelmed by the situation. I don't know that that benefits one side or the other. My recommendation for either side...have local counsel that has been before her in the past make your arguments.

ETA - Sorry to disappoint. Really was wanting to watch the lawyers in action.

 

[reedus23]

It has always been such a disgrace. The very ones who protect our communities or our country are paid the least. The very ones that deserve to be paid a handsome salary for what they do having a high risk profession are at the bottom of the totem pole a lot of times. And in most jurisdictions at least a two year college degree is required if one is going to become a police officer.

The city/county adjoining mine has a predominately AA police force and the starting pay scale is low. The elected officials are also AA including the Mayor and DA. Yet they have high violent crimes, including homicides, armed robberies, rapes,drug gangs, and home invasions. A few years back they were rated 48th n the nation per capita when it came to homicides. Also they have a lot of corruption among their police officers. Some were being paid by the drug dealers to look the other way. Its a mess in this city/county and has been for over two decades when the officials there refuse to admit that gangs and drugs were taken over.

However in my county it has one of the lowest crime rates in the state. The officers in my county are paid a very good starting salary with many great benefits. The most crime that happens here are drug bust since a lot of my county is rural land. One of our grandsons just went to work with the Sheriff's Department in our/his county. There were many applications because it is a sought out county to work in.

Many businesses have closed up in the other city I mentioned and new businesses do not want to come there due to the high crime rate. Its really sad. At one time that city was a safe city and crime was low.

IMO

Not only do they deserve better pay because of the job they do, but I think as citizens we have a vested interest in having the best possible people being placed in positions of authority. Raising the pay, in my estimation, would result in the good cops being retained but departments would be able to pass over the lower quality candidates in exchange for the higher quality candidates. I think higher pay would also allow departments to act more swiftly or have less concern about letting someone go who crosses the line because they know they'll have a larger pool of qualified candidates waiting in line for the job. Win/win all the way around if you ask me. $20,000 something is gross.

 

[Muffet]

JMHO, but I will be shocked silly if this hearing results in a release of MB's juvenile record.

Maybe another argument down the line.

 

[DebinGA]

Apparently, shutting down I-70 is nothing new:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/protest-stops-traffic/

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2009/07/black_trade_group_plans_shutdown_of_interstate_70_prior_to_all-star_game_st_louis_protest.php

 

[reedus23]

IMO, it supports the theory/claim that OW was standing still while MB moved toward him.

If 130 feet is accurate as frydaddy has told us. And if MB and OW were 6 feet apart as one of the witnesses said. And if OW didn't move more than 4 feet while the shots were fired. The only thing I can gather is that OW had traveled 120 feet before firing the first shot. Beyond that, I don't know what it says.

 

[Muffet]

... And personally, after seeing that the tweeter called our beheaded journalist a coward, I hope the request for records only gets won by the local paper instead of by him.

I'm tired of obnoxious "journalists" getting away with lying and other nonsense that's rampant these days.

 

[reedus23]

EXACTLY!! And it impeaches several witness statements that insist OW was "chasing" a running MB, and completely impeaches witness statements that OW was "standing over MB and shot him."

IMO, the analysis that says OW didn't move more than 4 feet during all of the shots fired is a HUGE piece of evidence.

Help me out with the math I used in the above post. Wouldn't it tell us just the opposite. That OW was "chasing" MB for at least 120 feet before beginning that volley of shots? IF we know MB's body came to rest 130 feet from the vehicle. And IF we know that OW and MB were about 6 feet apart at the time of the last shots. Doesn't that mean that OW traveled at least 124 feet at the time of the last shots? And IF OW might have traveled 4 feet between the first shot and the last shot on the audio, wouldn't that mean he COULD have been 120 feet from his vehicle at the time of the first shot and 124 feet from his vehicle at the time of the last shot, with the last 6 feet being the distance that the witness described as being the distance between OW and MB, taking us to the 130 feet that frydaddy estimates was the distance from the vehicle to the final resting spot?

 

[Muffet]

If 130 feet is accurate as frydaddy has told us. And if MB and OW were 6 feet apart as one of the witnesses said. And if OW didn't move more than 4 feet while the shots were fired. The only thing I can gather is that OW had traveled 120 feet before firing the first shot. Beyond that, I don't know what it says.

Or the Black Canseco unknown speaker (henceforth to be called "BCus" ) guy was right that MB was running back towards ODW.

I expect it was some of both. MB came back when he realized ODW wasn't too knocked out to continue pursuing him with a gun.

 

[reedus23]

Here's the link to the docket.

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do

Interesting. The St Louis Post Dispatch filed a memorandum. So I guess both suits will be heard together.

It now is updated with a docket entry for today saying hearing held. I'm gonna guess she took it under advisement though wouldn't be surprised if I find out I'm wrong as I continue to catch up.

 

[Lovejac]

Thanks all for helping clarify where the hearing was. Whichever media printed that it was in Division 2 probably just isn't familiar with how the courts here work. Judge McShane in Division 2 is the presiding judge, presiding over the entire St. Louis County Circuit Court, so whoever that was probably just assumed she was hearing it. Siwak is in the family courts building. Drove by it. Full parking lot. No camera crews I could see. So I went back to work. Well, the office. Obviously not working.

For whatever it's worth, while Siwak is extremely competent, I would feel much more confident with McShane. McShane just doesn't mess around. Siwak is a younger judge and I would be a bit concerned that she could get overwhelmed by the situation. I don't know that that benefits one side or the other. My recommendation for either side...have local counsel that has been before her in the past make your arguments.

ETA - Sorry to disappoint. Really was wanting to watch the lawyers in action.

Thanks for trying. I appreciate it!:loveyou:

 

[reedus23]

JMHO, but I will be shocked silly if this hearing results in a release of MB's juvenile record.

Maybe another argument down the line.

I have no idea how you split the baby, but I wouldn't be surprised if Siwak looks for a way to do that. Give one side some of what they want but not all. Both sides come away with a partial win and a partial loss.

 

[Muffet]

I must have missed something important. I thought that the chief said the whole crime scene was 120ish feet, but MB's body was 35 feet from the vehicle.

 

[Lovejac]

I'm shocked they're not more reporters, or any reporters tweeting about this hearing. :thinking:

 

[Lovejac]

Charles C. Johnson@ChuckCJohnson · 47m

Please release #MichaelBrown juvenile records. It's go time now. #ferguson

https://twitter.com/ChuckCJohnson

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by STL Public Radio
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Alex Stuckey ‏@alexdstuckey 4m
.@GovJayNixon just lifted the state of emergency declared in #Ferguson #MichaelBrown
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[popsicle]

Retweeted by STL Public Radio
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Jo Mannies ‏@jmannies 1m
Nixon lifts emergency decree for #Ferguson. Now cannot remove/replace STLCntyPros McCulloch. Noon protest could be interesting...
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[K_Z]

JMHO, but I will be shocked silly if this hearing results in a release of MB's juvenile record.

Maybe another argument down the line.

Agreed. I'd be shocked, too. I'd expect a multi-month court and media battle on that, multiple hearings, etc.

However, I do think that whatever is, or isn't there, will eventually come out. I could even see the Brown family attorneys themselves calling a press conference to "share" what the family might choose to reveal, just to stay ahead of the wave, and present the information with their own perspective.

It's my opinion that there is something, or more than one thing, in a sealed juvenile record. Attorneys just don't say "situations may have occurred" when there weren't any, IMO. Especially THESE attorneys.

FWIW, the mother's comments that MB had no "trouble" as a juvenile could be her unique interpretation of a suspended sentence.

I just am extremely doubtful that there could be no juvenile record at all, clean as a whistle. Not with MB's history, and his actions Aug 9. If there was no record at all, somebody would have put out an affidavit or something to that effect by now, right?

The question is, is it relevant to what happened Aug 9? And I do think that it is, only if OW is indicted and charged with anything. If OW is not indicted or charged, I'm personally just fine with "whatever" MB's juvenile record is, or is not, remaining sealed and confidential. JMO.

 

[reedus23]

Or the Black Canseco unknown speaker (henceforth to be called "BCus" ) guy was right that MB was running back towards ODW.

I expect it was some of both. MB came back when he realized ODW wasn't too knocked out to continue pursuing him with a gun.

Oh, I don't discount that possibility, but if that analysis is accurate, which was the premise of the discussion, we don't KNOW that. It is possible, but we don't KNOW. MB could have ran 150 feet and then ran 20 feet back toward OW. That's a possibility but that analysis doesn't tell us that. The only thing I can think of, assuming it's accurate, that it can confirm is that OW had to travel at least 120 feet from his vehicle before beginning to fire. Other things are still a possibility though, obviously, but it would require MB to have traveled more than 130 feet before turning and "charging" OW.

 

[Lovejac]

Retweeted by STL Public Radio
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Jo Mannies ‏@jmannies 1m
Nixon lifts emergency decree for #Ferguson. Now cannot remove/replace STLCntyPros McCulloch. Noon protest could be interesting...
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I take this to mean that now that there is no state of emergency, no one can request that McCulloch be removed? Have I got that right?