MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #15

[oceanblueeyes]

That's disgusting. Seriously, how are you supposed to attract the best candidates tot he profession, much less that department, with that kind of pay. Triple that and maybe they'd have the luxury of being pickier in their hiring selections.

It has always been such a disgrace. The very ones who protect our communities or our country are paid the least. The very ones that deserve to be paid a handsome salary for what they do having a high risk profession are at the bottom of the totem pole a lot of times. And in most jurisdictions at least a two year college degree is required if one is going to become a police officer.

The city/county adjoining mine has a predominately AA police force and the starting pay scale is low. The elected officials are also AA including the Mayor and DA. Yet they have high violent crimes, including homicides, armed robberies, rapes,drug gangs, and home invasions. A few years back they were rated 48th n the nation per capita when it came to homicides. Also they have a lot of corruption among their police officers. Some were being paid by the drug dealers to look the other way. Its a mess in this city/county and has been for over two decades when the officials there refuse to admit that gangs and drugs were taken over.

However in my county it has one of the lowest crime rates in the state. The officers in my county are paid a very good starting salary with many great benefits. The most crime that happens here are drug bust since a lot of my county is rural land. One of our grandsons just went to work with the Sheriff's Department in our/his county. There were many applications because it is a sought out county to work in.

Many businesses have closed up in the other city I mentioned and new businesses do not want to come there due to the high crime rate. Its really sad. At one time that city was a safe city and crime was low.

IMO

 

[DebinGA]

I've seen multiple "articles" discussing the height and stature of OW, stating he is tall and strong, etc.

It seems to me, it would support an unjustified shooting more if he were small and meek, no? If he's tall and strong, he could fight back and would be less likely to fire on MB for no reason. He wouldn't be as intimidated, they'd be a bit more equal, so why would these articles seem to imply his stature makes him more likely to shoot an unarmed teen? I'm confused.

Mentioning DW's height was to suggest he had less reason to fear the gentle, unarmed giant than shorter officers imo.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

How does a Grand jury know who to call as witness's beyond what the State calls? If they are only given information from the prosecution, how would the Grand Jury know that there are other witness's that could be of value to them?

Maybe they have access to police reports and interviews that show who is a witness. If the State doesn't use certain witness's that could help the Grand Jury, they may call them on their own. Is this correct? Or am I off base?

They do have access to police reports also when a witness is testifying (like the lead investigator/detective) names will be mentioned then but if they weren't called by the DA so the GJ can summon those people to testify as witnesses.

The GJ can also ask the lead detective if other witnesses saw anything......like the shooting, bank robbery.....DV assault......etc.


IMO

 

[Tawny]

If the ShotSpotter analysis is correct, it raises more questions. If the shooter doesn't move, how does that square with witness accounts of OW following MB shooting? If MB's body is 130' for OW's car, I can't make sense of it.

IMO, it supports the theory/claim that OW was standing still while MB moved toward him.

 

[K_Z]

IMO, it supports the theory/claim that OW was standing still while MB moved toward him.

EXACTLY!! And it impeaches several witness statements that insist OW was "chasing" a running MB, and completely impeaches witness statements that OW was "standing over MB and shot him."

IMO, the analysis that says OW didn't move more than 4 feet during all of the shots fired is a HUGE piece of evidence.

 

[reedus23]

Can anyone confirm the hearing is still division 2 of the county at 10:30? Here. It's early. But it's barren

 

[Linda7NJ]

Can anyone confirm the hearing is still division 2 of the county at 10:30? Here. It's early. But it's barren

I can't answer your question but I sure appreciate your being there! Keep us posted


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[Linda7NJ]

All I could find

"A hearing in the case is set for September 3 before Judge Ellen Siwak."




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[popsicle]

Charles C. Johnson @ChuckCJohnson · 15h

#Michaelbrown hearing 7900 Carondelet Clayton, MO 63105Division 2, fl 3 10:30 am, may want to arrive early because of security delays.

 

[Oceans]

I've seen multiple "articles" discussing the height and stature of OW, stating he is tall and strong, etc.

It seems to me, it would support an unjustified shooting more if he were small and meek, no? If he's tall and strong, he could fight back and would be less likely to fire on MB for no reason. He wouldn't be as intimidated, they'd be a bit more equal, so why would these articles seem to imply his stature makes him more likely to shoot an unarmed teen? I'm confused.

I have seen that photo. ODW is taller as his wife, the rest of the people in that photo are approx. as tall as his wife. It seems to me there is an older couple to the right (probably the parents of the bride) and two man to the left which look to me to be very young, more like boys/teenagers. JMO.

 

[K_Z]

Re MB's possible juvie record, just a reminder that his family told the NYT reporter, who wrote an extended article on MB's history, that he had never been in trouble with the law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/us/michael-brown-spent-last-weeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html

"He did not have a criminal record as an adult, and his family said he never got in trouble with the law as a juvenile, either."

I just want to point out that it would have been nearly impossible for MB to have an adult criminal record, even if he committed a crime on his 18th birthday. He had only been 18 for about 90 days, and it typically takes longer than that for charges to wind their way thru the court system.

The bigger question, in my mind, is "if" there is a juvenile record for something very serious (the allegation specified in the civil suit documents is some kind of involvement with 2nd degree murder), I think the age of the juvenile is highly relevant. Most juveniles involved with murder charges, above the age of 14-15, are usually charged as adults.

We know MB was not in juvenile prison, because he went to 4-5 different high schools. So I think it's unlikely "if" there is a second degree murder, that MB was charged outright. More likely, something like charges as an accomplice, or knowing about a second degree murder, and withholding information that could lead to solving the murder-- either of those scenarios seem more likely to me.

So, "if" there were some kind of charges for some kind of involvement or knowledge of a 2nd degree murder, there was a negotiation to keep it in juvenile court so the records could be sealed, and whatever sentence was decided on was probably suspended or deferred. When that happens, AFAIK, the recipient of suspended or deferred sentencing as a juvenile is required to fulfill certain requirements specified by the court/ judge to avoid the charges being "adultified", lol, if that makes sense. Some examples would be staying in school and avoiding truancy, graduating, refraining from any further criminal activity, abstaining from drugs and alcohol, etc.

This is yet another reason MB's mother's comments have stayed in my thoughts, her understandably grief stricken comments about "do you know HOW HARD it was to get him to graduate?" may have some reference or bearing on avoiding consequences, "if" there was a significant juvenile charge/ suspended sentence imposed. That and "he was turning his life around." Just pure speculation on my part.

 

[reedus23]

All I could find

"A hearing in the case is set for September 3 before Judge Ellen Siwak."




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Thanks. Siwak is a different division. Will try it. Hope its mcshane

 

[reedus23]

Well siwak is in family courts building a mile or 2 away. See nothing in mcshanes division so I'm out

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well siwak is in family courts building a mile or 2 away. See nothing in mcshanes division so I'm out

Popsicles link says it's being heard in family court.


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[popsicle]

Retweeted by David Carson
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Nicholas J.C. Pistor ‏@nickpistor 27m
.@rosered764 #Ferguson protest aimed at shutting down Interstate 70 planned for Sept 10 at 3:00 PM. Organizers want special prosecutor.
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[JLSChook]

Retweeted by David Carson
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Nicholas J.C. Pistor ‏@nickpistor 27m
.@rosered764 #Ferguson protest aimed at shutting down Interstate 70 planned for Sept 10 at 3:00 PM. Organizers want special prosecutor.
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BBM
Now that's a shocker. Crump and Parks at work.

 

[K_Z]

If this helps with tracking, I think this might be the case number for the hearing for the potential juvenile records.

14SL-JU00840

 

[DebinGA]

This is yet another reason MB's mother's comments have stayed in my thoughts, her understandably grief stricken comments about "do you know HOW HARD it was to get him to graduate?" may have some reference or bearing on avoiding consequences, "if" there was a significant juvenile charge/ suspended sentence imposed. That and "he was turning his life around." Just pure speculation on my part.

Makes sense to me. FWIW, in MO a juvenile becomes an "adult" at 17.

 

[K_Z]

If this helps with tracking, I think this might be the case number for the hearing for the potential juvenile records.

14SL-JU00840

Here's the link to the docket.

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do

Interesting. The St Louis Post Dispatch filed a memorandum. So I guess both suits will be heard together.

08/29/2014 Memorandum Filed
Memorandum in Support of Petition Pursuant to Mo. Rev. State. 211.321
Filed By: ST LOUIS POST DISPATCH
On Behalf Of: JEREMY KOHLER

Order
Order to Redact Personal Information Pursuant to Supreme Court Operating Rule 2.05(c) SO ORDERED: JUDGE ELLEN LEVY SIWAK

 

[DebinGA]

Weren't we told MB turned 18 weeks before his death? Am I wrong in believing in most states a child must be age 6 by Sept. 1 in order to enter first grade? Either MB was older than 18 when he died, or he was probably the youngest person in his class throughout his school years.

ETA: "A child is eligible for admission to first grade if the child reaches the age of six (6) before the first day of August of the school year beginning in that calendar year."

If ever there was a child who could have benefitted from an extra year to mature in kindergarten, it was MB imo.