MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #15

[SilkySifaka]

I don't. I'm afraid those who want to learn won't stand a chance against those who want to create chaos and tear down the building.

My opinion only.

talk about tarring all the kids with the same brush. Most kids want to learn, one of the problems was good schooling availability for the students. Do you believe in segregated schooling?

 

[Trident]

talk about tarring all the kids with the same brush. Most kids want to learn, one of the problems was good schooling availability for the students. Do you believe in segregated schooling?

BBM. What is segregated schooling? Black schools/white schools? OR, schools for those who want to learn, black or white, and those who don't, black or white?

You need to clarify your question.

 

[SilkySifaka]

BBM. What is segregated schooling? Black schools/white schools? OR, schools for those who want to learn, black or white, and those who don't, black or white?

You need to clarify your question.

why would you assume any of the children will tear it down and cause chaos? As far as clarifying my question, the only difference the school has been ordered to make is let 350 black students attend classes. So I think your whole presumption is based on race

IMO only.

 

[Trident]

why would you assume any of the children will tear it down and cause chaos? As far as clarifying my question, the only difference the school has been ordered to make is let 350 black students attend classes. So I think your whole presumption is based on race

IMO only.

If my whole presumption is based on race, can you give me a link on the racial makeup of the combined school? The race card is getting old, and I am proud to be white with an open mind and heart. I will not, however, be cowed by the epitaph of racist. Those who have nothing to offer but hate often resort to it. I could do that myself, but chose not to play the card that was once trump. More and more people are seeing this whole mess for what it is.

In my heart, I would want every student, black/white/Asian, to attend a school which would teach them, nurture them, prepare them for higher education, job, etc. I apologize if I sometimes think that may not be possible in certain situations. There are so many stories out there, horror stories, from teachers in black/inner city/diverse schools which are nothing but stories about trying to teach, assaults on them while they are trying. I am disgusted by the horror stories. I would not wish them on ANY child. I am sick of the tax dollars spent to educate those who want no education.

In some areas learning is looked down upon, and criminal thugs idolized. There needs to be a better way than to integrate an unacceditated building full of kids into one that had some standing. One bad apple does rot the whole bunch, image a whole lot of bad apples.

Thank God I do not have school-aged children, or live in Ferguson. My heart goes out to the good people living there, black and white who want a better life.

My opinion only

 

[DebinGA]

what spin, i think this is a great idea for both groups of kids.

Isn't the new minority-owned PR firm tasked with polishing Ferguson's image? My point was that having such a horrible school system that a court orders other school systems to accept Normandy school district kids, black/white/brown, is a challenge in any "I Love Ferguson, and You Will Too" campaign.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/...cle_f8ae96c1-7da3-5f51-9ab6-0da4f653dde3.html

Very sympathetic post-funeral article about MB's mother. It notes that Ms. McSpaydden went to an "affluent" StL elementary school as a transfer. Included are her notes of appreciation to multiple teachers there, who she valued greatly. Which makes it even stranger that MB did not leave Normandy HS when the expense-paid alternative became available, since he'd already switched high schools 4 times, and so many classmates opted to leave for better, safer schools.

 

[popsicle]

[h=1]St. Louis County Circuit Court Judge Mulls Over Release of Possible Michael Brown Juvenile Records[/h]
“There’s no other legitimate basis to go almost two years into his past,” Gray says.
He says it’s an attempt to make the police shooting look justified.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/09...e-of-possible-michael-brown-juvenile-records/

 

[TheDuchess]

[h=1]St. Louis County Circuit Court Judge Mulls Over Release of Possible Michael Brown Juvenile Records[/h]
“There’s no other legitimate basis to go almost two years into his past,” Gray says.
He says it’s an attempt to make the police shooting look justified.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/09...e-of-possible-michael-brown-juvenile-records/

What case is this guy trying? I'm sorry but I cannot figure out why juvenile records are still sealed after death.

ETA God forbid the information helps to exonerate an innocent man.

 

[Footwarrior]

When I first heard about this case, it was police brutality. A kid was killed for jaywalking, then by the evening news it turned into a race case. White cop kills unarmed black kid while jaywalking.

I think the coached witnesses, the New Black Panther Party, Sharpeton and the other cast of characters pretty much changed the headlines from then on.

Why do you presume that the witnesses are coached?

 

[perico]

I am usually reading here and post rarely, but I have to speak up as this case has gotten so far out there. I have been a member for a while and do love this community.

In. This instance I feel I need to speak up because people are taking the words of unreliable sources. It is true about both supporters of Brown and Officer Wilson.

Mike Brown may have had a lot of issues, and likely was a bully as seem by the video from the store, but please don't rely on the reporting of Charles C. Johnson to shape your opinions of the case. I don't want to get off topic, but people are sourcing him so regularly that his credibility as a source needs to be examined. The problem is that he has no credibility. The guy is posting stuff to see what sticks, almost like a right wing version of Sharpton pushing the rage button on exactly the opposite side. For all the questioning and criticizing about the media, this needs to be addressed if one is truly interested in the truth of what happened, as opposed to the racial politics being exploited on both sides. Johnson has a history of this stuff and is quite gullible. See example:

<modsnip>

 

[Footwarrior]

What case is this guy trying? I'm sorry but I cannot figure out why juvenile records are still sealed after death.

ETA God forbid the information helps to exonerate an innocent man.

If Brown committed some offense when he was 16, how does that justify a police officer shooting him two years later?

 

[Tawny]

IMO they shouldn't have to.

Seriously, I get where Brown supporters are coming from on this one. Unless he has violent felonies, it's irrelevant.
Seems people want to paint him as someone that was so awful he deserved to die regardless of the circumstances of Aug 9th.
If Brown had any history of assaulting police...that would be relevant.
Nothing else is. IMO

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with most of this, however, I might go so far as to say that a record that reflects any type of violent assault against anybody would be relevant. JMO!

 

[Sonya610]

Quote Originally Posted by claudicici

....White people do not want to acknowledge that their even is a race issue when there clearly is.I have heard white people say the most racist things but they are very secretive about it ,when you call them out on it they get super defensive and deny everything....

Because of the legal/employment consequences. I don't think the SHOOTING itself had to do with race however the rest of it? The rest of it is obviously all about race.

If White people talk about race on forums such as this they get banned unless their comments are completely rose colored, if White journalists or commentators make an honest observation about race they get fired etc...

It is not that White folks "don't want to acknowledge" the race problem or that many don't talk about it, we are just selective in where and to whom we talk about it with so it doesn't end up getting us fired and such.

And believe me there is far more White folk "discussion" on the topic than anyone wants to acknowledge.

More and more discussion and honest opinions regarding the situation all the time.

 

[Frydaddy]

It is impossible to fully explore the dynamics of the transfer situation in a short post and this likely isn't the proper vine for it anyway. That said, this nonsense of constantly claiming racial bias perpetuates the racial divide in our country as much as true racism does.

Rather than explore the skin color angle, how about we refer to these kids solely as students. Howell already has significantly more students per classroom and per teacher than the average Missouri school, the transfers will only add to that. Howell's stats on discipline and dropout rates are half as bad as state average. Their academics are superior to Missouri averages. Adding students from a school referred to as one of the worst in the state in terms of academics, attendance, and obedience only increases a problem for a school where parents pay dearly in home costs and real estate taxes to ensure their kids get a quality education in a quality atmosphere. For them to show concern is not racism, it's called reality. There are schools in predominantly white rural areas that have many of the dynamics that Normandy District has, I can assure you that if those schools wished to follow suit, the protests would be similar. Parents just don't get excited with the prospect of adding potential problems that do not organically exist.

Yes, the transfers have some positives for both the students being transferred and the resident students who are exposed to an atmosphere they might not be exposed to otherwise.
However, one other piece of this is the effect it will have on Normandy School District and the residents of that district. Normandy is paying significantly more money per student to transfer the students out, without any conduit to recapture that money. And if these transfers are the best and brightest, the academic statistics, truancy rates, disciplinary rates, etc. will become even more dire, lessening the chance that this district fixes what is wrong to regain accreditation and begin to offer a decent education.

So, I guess my request is that people stop using race as a crutch to bypass intellectual consideration of all facets of the discussion. It's lazy, it's inflammatory, and in many cases, it's inaccurate. Decades later, claiming racism hasn't solved many problems like the ones that Ferguson faces, isn't it time to look for a new place to focus?

 

[Tawny]

Because of the legal consequences. I don't think the SHOOTING itself had to do with race however the rest of it? The rest of it is obviously all about race.

Why do you feel that way?

 

[perico]

I want to say that I'm not opposed to releasing his records, but just saying for people not to take this writer at face value.

 

[jmcgladr]

What case is this guy trying? I'm sorry but I cannot figure out why juvenile records are still sealed after death.

ETA God forbid the information helps to exonerate an innocent man.

I'm not sure how any information gleaned from MB's juvenile records would "help to exonerate an innocent man." I have read from numerous sources that it would be inadmissable as evidence, being unrelated to the crime. Is this not correct? So it would possibly alter the opinion of MB in the court of public opinion, but would likely not affect the homicide investigation.

 

[TheDuchess]

I am usually reading here and post rarely, but I have to speak up as this case has gotten so far out there. I have been a member for a while and do love this community.

In. This instance I feel I need to speak up because people are taking the words of unreliable sources. It is true about both supporters of Brown and Officer Wilson.

Mike Brown may have had a lot of issues, and likely was a bully as seem by the video from the store, but please don't rely on the reporting of Charles C. Johnson to shape your opinions of the case. I don't want to get off topic, but people are sourcing him so regularly that his credibility as a source needs to be examined. The problem is that he has no credibility. The guy is posting stuff to see what sticks, almost like a right wing version of Sharpton pushing the rage button on exactly the opposite side. For all the questioning and criticizing about the media, this needs to be addressed if one is truly interested in the truth of what happened, as opposed to the racial politics being exploited on both sides. Johnson has a history of this stuff and is quite gullible. See example:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2...ke_princeton_newspaper_to_attack_the_nyt.html

Well...I agree and I don't agree....to an extent. I agree that CCJ is not necessarily reliable as a new source and GN is not an MSM site, so therefore, they should not be linked.

That said - both CCS and St. Louis Dispatch (which is a MSM source) have filed actual legal cases with the court, so I feel those can be discussed.

Any objections?

 

[Frydaddy]

Why do you presume that the witnesses are coached?

In the case of Johnson, Mitchell, and Crenshaw, it's because they tell the exact same story about the tussle even though they have three unique sets of circumstances that would seem to prevent them from giving even a similar sounding portrayal. Their verbiage and their accounts are illogical, error-filled, and at times, unbelievable. And, considering all three were filmed in the immediately aftermath in the same group of ten or so people that included Anthony Shahid, the chief instigator, it causes one to wonder.

I took all three at their word in the first couple days, thought Wilson used excessive force. Still consider that possibility. But their words, their actions, caught on tape, gives the impression that they are telling a story that their eyes did not see (Mitchell and Crenshaw) or that they saw in a different way than they told it (Johnson). Ask yourself this...IF they did not see this as they told it, do you think they arrive at telling the same story on their own or as a group of three, or would you think someone would have to orchestrate such?

 

[TheDuchess]

O/T - But you can't block the streets in Chicago either.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/business/chicago-minimum-wage-protest-273942571.html