MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #3

[Wysteria]

One of the reporters asked Captain Johnson about why people with children were subjected to tear gas.

That ridiculous question irks me to no end!

LE gave multiple warnings to disperse - in addition to using the LRAD for quite awhile.

To anyone complaining about their children being tear gassed - why didn't they leave when LE said "disperse or you will be subjected to arrest or other measures?"

Why didn't they leave when the LRAD was being used? That was a deafening sound! I had to mute my speakers - I can only imagine how loud it was there in person.

Furthermore - it's no secret that violence has occurred this past week. It's been all over the news. There's no way I would have taken my children out there and put them at risk of getting hurt or worse.

Teaching your children to participate in peaceful protest is one thing. But you sure as heck don't do it when you know there are violent thugs just waiting to harm someone.

This is the best post of the day/morning.

You've expressed your feelings and facts far better than I could have. I will tie in your post with mine:

It indicates how this community operates. I'm not saying that all of the citizens have this kind of mindset, but from what I have seen in press conferences and interviews and that disgusting (MF every other word, not one person praying, sobbing, consoling one another, acting as if they were watching a baseball game etc...), but valuable YouTube video, is exceedingly telling to me and ties right into what you have expressed in you post.

I have heard the word MF more times this week than I have in my entire life. I have seen photos of residents of this community on their knees with their hands in the air. I will provide links if asked, but the links are all over this forum.

I also think that the kind of behavior is not uncommon in that community; and police have to face it every day. I do not believe that the all of the protesters are not from the community. I think that most are. This is not a case of a few thugs. The community is clearly participating in this madness. I am still waiting for a concise, sincere public apology to the shop owner that was strong armed, bullied and robbed. Does anyone on this forum think that will ever happen? From this community? No way.

I will add that I think that the LEO involved in the incident is the real victim in all of this. He may be alive, but his life is ruined and forever changed due to...well you know. Another real victim is the shop keeper.

Taking responsibility for ones actions and the consequences of those actions is not in the forefront, and I strongly believe that it should be.

 

[gramcracker]

:goodpost:

been watching CNN and MSNBC for a few cycles. their presentations re the autopsy are pretty much stunning IMO. the number of shots that found their mark is mentioned but never that "none were in the back, which contradicts all eyewitness accounts"

hmmm

then they are looping a female's complaints re being gassed, each time adding their comment that this occurred "three hours before the beginning of the curfew." and each time failing to mention that the quantity and severity of violent actions before the curfew is what caused the use of tear gas

hmmm

 

[Wysteria]

Just watching this very intelligent old school civil rights leader on CNN, talking about how the whole world is watching, and this has to open a dialogue about race and fairness towards young black males. And it makes me so sad. Because my own kids are mixed race and it saddens me that Michael Brown would be the poster boy for young black males. Why him? Why not choose someone who was truly innocently walking down the road and shot by a villainous killer.

But it bothers me that an entire nation of black Americans will now have to justify and lionize this kid's thuggish behavior. They will make a martyr out of someone who violently shoved a little old man into a wall, just so he could take a box of wraps back home. I do not think he should be the global example of young black males that we should hold as a martyr. jmo

^^^^ This, this, this. I wish I felt sad, all I can feel right now is mad.

 

[Apollo]

:goodpost:

been watching CNN and MSNBC for a few cycles. their presentations re the autopsy are pretty much stunning IMO. the number of shots that found their mark is mentioned but never that "none were in the back, which contradicts all eyewitness accounts"

hmmm

then they are looping a female's complaints re being gassed, each time adding their comment that this occurred "three hours before the beginning of the curfew." and each time failing to mention that the quantity and severity of violent actions before the curfew is what caused the use of tear gas

hmmm

The loop of that female is annoying. She starts out by saying she was just going to the mall with a friend and her friend got hit in the face with a gas bomb. Then she goes on and on about how unacceptable this is. She finishes by stating "Until we get justice, we will not stop!" Stop what? Going to the mall? Makes me think she wasn't going to the mall. She was going down the street, told to disperse and when she didn't, her friend got hit with the gas bomb. Then we have the reporter from CNN complaining that he got hit by a rubber bullet and showing us the rubber bullet. The media was also told to leave the area and some didn't. So---that's what happens. The police have enough problems and some of the media seem to be adding to that so tough luck, Mr. CNN. Do as your told and you won't get hit by rubber bullets. I've been watching the coverage by CNN and they seem to be stirring the pot. Someone in that organization should realize they're fueling the fire and possibly making this situation worse. But hey--it's all about ratings, right?

 

[Trident]

^^^^ This, this, this. I wish I felt sad, all I can feel right now is mad.

I've been mad, sad, and confused. I see a town being destroyed both inwardly and out: inwardly the black community harbors a lot of distrust and hatred toward the mostly-white police force for alleged past injustices; outwardly they are destroying businesses that supplied their daily needs, and supplied a paycheck for many. I see no winners here.

On one of the MSM shows during the thick of things, a youngish black woman who has a title I forgot, was telling her story of growing up in/near Ferguson. She said it was a "sundown" town. We all know what that means. She further said the only jobs for blacks were ones that barely paid the bills. Then, after the Civil Rights movement, things changed and blacks could move into Ferguson and live. Now I have to ask myself WHY? Why would blacks, or anyone else want to move into a town that didn't have enough good-paying jobs to go around? Why move to a town where you will still live in poverty? Because you can? Hell, any of us can starve anywhere.

None of this makes any sense to me. If I were a young person I'd go where the opportunities are - remember "go west young man"? A lot of people did and prospered. Of course the days of going west are done, but this is still the land of opportunity for those with gumption and enterprise - take Facebook. A no brainer (still is, lol), however there are so many better things to do with a life than sit around and say you have no hope, you're being held down. Get out of bed, plant a garden, start a dress shop, the world still holds opportunity, and it doesn't need to be in Ferguson. You don't have to have a college education, but you do need gumption. Find a backbone and use it for more productive things than riots.

My morning rant, and my opinion only

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

****Graphic Warning****


Autopsy Shows Michael Brown Was Struck at Least 6 Times

FERGUSON, Mo. — Michael Brown, the unarmed black teenager who was killed by a police officer, sparking protests around the nation, was shot at least six times, including twice in the head, a preliminary private autopsy performed on Sunday found.

One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.



http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/08/18/us/SUB-JP-BROWN-2/SUB-JP-BROWN-2-superJumbo.jpg




more at the link
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...s-shot-at-least-6-times.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=1

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Baden told the Times that Brown was also shot four times in the right arm and that all the bullets were fired into his front. The newspaper said the bullets did not appear to have come from very close range because there was no gunpowder on his body.

That determination could change if there were residue on Brown's clothing, which Baden did not examine, the newspaper said
Some of the bullets entered and exited Brown several times, the newspaper said, including one that caused at least five wounds. It said one shattered his right eye, went through his face, left through his jaw and re-entered his collarbone. The last two shots in the head would have stopped him in his tracks and were likely the last fired, the Times said.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20140817/WIRE/140819607/-1/radarmap

 

[Sonya610]

I would freak out if I shot someone 3 or 4 times and they were STILL coming at me

Don't freak out, just keep shooting. This is why police typically shoot suspects MANY TIMES.

Addressing those that complain all the shots were NOT center mass: The center mass rule is just a rule of thumb to increase the odds of stopping the target, there is no rule that says you can't/shouldn't aim for the forehead it is just much harder to hit that small target in the heat of the moment. It is often recommended to aim for the head IF the shots to the chest are ineffective (especially if they could possibly be wearing a bullet proof vest).

Most gunshot victims go down/die because of massive blood loss, shooting several times in the center mass makes it more likely critical organs will be hit causing that blood loss, that is also why hollow point bullets are used, to increase the amount of massive tissue/organ damage and facilitate rapid exsanguination.

The true rule of thumb is "shoot until the threat is eliminated" no matter how many shots it takes. It is quite possible to shoot someone several times in the chest and miss all vital organs, if that happens the individual can keep coming and quite possibly kill you.

 

[Sonya610]

I am also surprised to see journalists getting messed up by teargas.

Amazon has good quality gas masks for under $20 (military surplus). The news agencies can't afford to buy the reports any? I bet vendors could make a tidy profit selling those to the street protestors too!

 

[Caffeine]

...that's exactly why you don't try and stop a threat by shooting for the leg, like mentioned before.

Police don't know who is armed and who isn't. Hitting them with a round in the calf could slow them down, but it's a small target and could give them enough time to produce a gun or knife and turn the tables quickly.

Any firearm training course will teach you to go for center mass, and shoot until the threat has stopped.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Elley Mae]

Baden did not have access to Brown's clothes, which may have gunpowder residue on them if the bullets were fired from close range. Baden also did not have access to X-rays that may have shown where the bullets were found, nor did he see any witness or police statements.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/1...-reveals-that-was-shot-six-times-report-says/

 

[SStarr33]

I was expecting the Capt to confirm what MSNBC has been reporting that "one person is dead" after tonight's unrest. I guess this means that the MSNBC report is false although they haven't issued a retraction yet.

msnbc
‏@msnbc
At least 1 dead as violence engulfs #Ferguson. Latest details from on the ground: http://on.msnbc.com/XtR8pQ

LOL, don't hold your breath waiting on that retraction. MSNBC lies with impunity.

 

[Trident]

I am also surprised to see journalists getting messed up by teargas.

Amazon has good quality gas masks for under $20 (military surplus). The news agencies can't afford to buy the reports any? I bet vendors could make a tidy profit selling those to the street protestors too!

Thing is, ya never know when the next riot is going to happen. After WWII ended, we had a gas mask, or two, kicking around the house for years. Don't remember what happened to it, we probably threw it out.

 

[Elley Mae]

According to the preliminary results of the family autopsy, the bullets that struck Brown were not fired from close range, as indicated by the absence of gunpowder residue on his body.

One of the bullets shattered his right eye, traveled through his face, exited his jaw and re-entered his collarbone, according to the autopsy.

The last two shots were likely the ones to his head, attorney Gray said. One entered the top of his Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when he was struck.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/18/michael-brown-death-missouri-national-guard-headed-to-ferguson/

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Amnesty International Takes ‘Unprecedented’ Step in Sending Delegation to Ferguson

August 18, 2014 1:35 AM

FERGUSON, Mo. (KMOX) - Human rights group Amnesty International has taken “unprecedented” action to deal with unrest in Ferguson by sending a delegation that has never before been deployed inside the United States.

The organization has had members on the ground in Ferguson since Thursday, in the wake of the fatal shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown by a Ferguson police officer. According to a news release, the 12-person delegation is there to “observe police and protester activity, gather testimony, seek meetings with officials and offer support to the community.”

Organizers will also train local activists on methods of non-violent protest.




http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08...ented-step-in-sending-delegation-to-ferguson/

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Baden said his autopsy was not intended to determine whether the shooting was justified.

“In my capacity as the forensic examiner for the New York State Police, I would say, ‘You’re not supposed to shoot so many times’,” he told the Times. “Right now there is too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting.”

Baden also said only three bullets were recovered from Brown's body, but that he had not yet seen the X-rays showing where the bullets were found which would help clarify the autopsy results.

http://news.msn.com/us/autopsy-finds-unarmed-teen-killed-by-police-was-shot-six-times-nyt

 

[vulture]

My prediction is that the downfall of Johnson will continue now that aome peoe hear he actually has sympathy for MBs family, and can relate to the many experiences of young black men who have been hassled by LE, no matter what social class, educational level, they are.

I have sympathy for Mike Brown's family. I would not have sympathy if I knew they knew of his shady activities and condoned them. But I don't know that's the case so for now I feel bad for them. It would be going a bit far for me to say I can relate to young black men who have been hassled by LE because I'm a white woman, but I believe it sometimes happens. I've been pulled over myself by Ferguson Police twice. I'm not a habitual speeder but occasionally if I'm thinking about something else I don't notice if the speed limit changes and I might be going a couple of miles over until I notice. Like I said you can drive through 20 cities or more on your way from one place to another without even noticing some of the cities because they are so small and the speed limit changes sometimes. When I was in college I was pulled over there twice on the way home from a nightclubbing night because that was on the way home for me. I was not ticketed, they just wanted to check if I was drunk or drugged. I expect many people driving through there at 2 am driving a "white trash" car had not had diet coke to drink like I did and no drugs other than caffeine! Some people would consider that harassment I guess. Since I knew I had carelessly gone a couple of miles over the limit I figured I was fair game. So they politely asked me a couple of questions (is this your car, have you had anything to drink), checked my license for issues (clean) and sent me on my way, how was I harmed by that? Do I believe that every black person is treated exactly the same way? No. Do I believe some of them are? Yes. But I have no way of knowing how many. Cameras are a good idea!

I still go to that neighborhood for classes and to visit my friend but I no longer drive a "white trash" car and I'm not around at 2 am, so I can't reproduce the same conditions now to see how I'm treated.

Here is the attitude I have toward drunk drivers in my current neighborhood. Being middle aged now, I'm not often out late at night any more. Once I was driving home from a friend's party around midnight and about a block from my condo there was a man in the middle of the main intersection of my condo complex in a small SUV trying to drive with a blown tire on the rim and shooting sparks all over the place. I stopped and called 911. Brentwood police seemed to know where I was from the GPS on the phone and were there very quickly. I suspect some police dept. may have been chasing this guy, who knows from what jurisdiction since my city is just under 2 sq. miles in area and there is an interstate nearby. Anyway the guy saw me on the phone and drove off as best he could, it was a pretty slow process on rims! Police got there right after and I pointed to which way he went and the 911 dispatcher told they got him a minute later so I went on home. This guy was white. I didn't care what color he was or where he was from. I didn't want him driving drunk on my street no matter who he was. Did I think the police were hassling him unfairly? No. I hope this whole terrible situation makes people ask themselves, what is my attitude toward crime in my neighborhood? Do I condone it because I'm doing it too, or am I opposed to it? What kind of community do I want? How much danger are the people I love in because I live in a de facto war zone? Do I accept my neighborhood as a war zone because I'm a participant in this war and it makes my activities easier or do I want to live in peace?

I worked in Ferguson alongside with black folks who were on occasion treated badly because of their race (by customers) and no other reason and I know they were hurt by it and I know the damage that does. Good luck to the people of Ferguson in where they choose to go from here. They have a hard job ahead of them.

 

[popsicle]

STLtoday ‏@stltoday 11m
See more chilling #Ferguson photos from Sunday night's violence: http://postdispat.ch/1v7LVih

 

[vulture]

Capt. Johnson looks like he is bent under the heavy burden of an unsuccessful peaceful night happening way before curfew. He looks like his heart is broken.

I feel bad for him. He's from there. I'm from the neighboring city and worked in Ferguson for 4 years and have taken classes there for a lot longer than that and I feel terrible. I feel his pain. In my opinion he was given a near-impossible job. Whenever I had to deal with a crisis at the Wal-Mart my first thought was let's get everybody through this alive then worry about other stuff later. He's dealing with something a million times bigger than what I ever had to deal with. I'm going to pray for him and everyone else trying to solve this peacefully. I'll turn on local news now while I work and let you know if I hear anything helpful.

 

[tlcya]

This is no revolution. This is a freeforall where there are no rules and you can do anything you want. Sigh. Googling like crazy. Not seeing any reports of any more deaths - thank goodness.