MO - Kara Kopetsky, 17 - 2007; Jessica Runions, 21 - 2016; found deceased - *ARREST*

[Vail]

This is my speculation only, but I feel she rejected him and he flipped out. Abandonment seems to be the issue - with CM, she was packing her stuff and trying to break up with him, so he tried to choke her to death. KF didn't date him long enough so their breakup may have been very different. With Jessica, I kind of think he wanted her to leave JM, she said no way, and he got angry. Especially if they had just had sex or had been having sex recently, he may see it as a total confusing betrayal. Now think if he had just confessed to her about Kara, and she balked. He would not only feel abandoned and rejected, but misunderstood, foolish and scared. Psychopath soup.

ETA: This was posted recently http://fox4kc.com/2017/04/07/the-pa...-runions-friends-remember-her-amazing-spirit/

 

[Claireishere]

We don't really have a clear motive here. About all we can do is speculate. Based on what he said at that party about wanting to marry Jessica and have kids with her, it's possible he made a pass at her and she declined. I think she may have also seen his temper in full force for the first time that night when he was locked out of the party and whatever else was going on and maybe attempted to distance herself and he wasn't having it.

We don't know much about their relationship, though. She had been to his home before as his grandpa said he had seen her car there before, and she was likely seen in that CWD video.

She also went to an interview with him that he had for an apprenticeship at a tattoo parlor, which to me speaks to her being someone who was trying to help him get his life straightened out. Her mother did say that she was a fixer and wanted to help people. (Link here about interview: http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/police-looking-for-21-year-old-missing-woman-from-raytown Statement from the man who interviewed him is in the gray box about halfway down the page - He said he did not resonate with KY or like his presence)

To me, it's likely she had befriended him and was trying to help him get on the right path and he formed an obsessive attachment to her. That's just my own theory though. Like I said, about all we can do at this point is speculate.

From reading what JR post on KY facebook page she always seems to address herself as a we, as in JR and JM. I think with KY being JMs childhood friend JR tried to help out with KY.

Also I do think there is a slight possibility that there was more to the KY and JR relationship than we are aware of. I don't think it went as far as cheating but I think there was likely some flirtation. I think KY tried to move it to the next level that night and was stopped.

I have just always found it incredibly odd that JR would stay after JM left. Also with placing herself in any one on one situations with KY. Like the tattoo interview. I get that none of that shows clear action or intent but its just the small actions that don't sit well with me, and make me question what was fully going on there. However its all speculation and fortunately I think there will be a trial with KY to figure that out.

In saying all of that I hope to God that JM has a rock solid alibi for that night because he could easily be used to create a doubt as to KYs guilt. I think our chances with evidence are much stronger in JR case than KK due to the passage of time.

 

[Scout87]

This is my speculation only, but I feel she rejected him and he flipped out. Abandonment seems to be the issue - with CM, she was packing her stuff and trying to break up with him, so he tried to choke her to death. KF didn't date him long enough so their breakup may have been very different. With Jessica, I kind of think he wanted her to leave JM, she said no way, and he got angry. Especially if they had just had sex or had been having sex recently, he may see it as a total confusing betrayal. Now think if he had just confessed to her about Kara, and she balked. He would not only feel abandoned and rejected, but misunderstood, foolish and scared. Psychopath soup.

ETA: This was posted recently http://fox4kc.com/2017/04/07/the-pa...-runions-friends-remember-her-amazing-spirit/

Indeed. It's clear he has some pretty serious issues with abandonment and that he also has what you might call mommy issues. I think he trusted Jessica and also became obsessed because she represented something that he had missed out on for the majority of his life - a caring, openhearted and loving soul who was trying to help set him on the right path. Rejection would have sent him into a tail spin.

 

[wizard21]

The physical and sexual abuse from when KY was younger. The drugs he was talking over the course of several years. Abandonment and separation issues. Being drunk on at least 2 of the 3 assaults on other women. Killing several kittens, as others I've contacted through facebook have confirmed. The guy clearly has issues beyond his control. He definitely should be locked up for the rest of his life, but in fairness, the kid wasn't dealt a fair hand. The person that was responsible for abusing him(rumor is his father) is just as responsible for creating the monster that took out those two girls.Just unfortunate nobody tried to reach out and help him before it was too late.

 

[Claireishere]

The physical and sexual abuse from when KY was younger. The drugs he was talking over the course of several years. Abandonment and separation issues. Being drunk on at least 2 of the 3 assaults on other women. Killing several kittens, as others I've contacted through facebook have confirmed. The guy clearly has issues beyond his control. He definitely should be locked up for the rest of his life, but in fairness, the kid wasn't dealt a fair hand. The person that was responsible for abusing him(rumor is his father) is just as responsible for creating the monster that took out those two girls.Just unfortunate nobody tried to reach out and help him before it was too late.

Where is the info on this abuse? I remember reading some of it before. Is there any actual documentation on this? Could this be something he made up to garner sympathy? If he is a clinical case of sociopath behavior, making up abuse would not be an abnormal behavior for him. I personally have always leaned more towards Bipolar disorder and or borderline personality. Which in some extreme cases of bipolar disorder people have memories of abuse that never actually occurred. Also the whole thing of him threatening suicide, the abandonment freak outs, the clear vanity etc. all are classic signs of Borderline.

The only big crossover is the harming animals. Which again could be an attention grab thing. I've heard a lot of people in the field of psychology say they would rather be locked in a room with a paranoid schizophrenic vs a room with bipolar/borderline.

 

[Claireishere]

http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news...ect-evidence-at-kylr-yusts-grandfathers-house

So this at the bottom it says he was diagnosed as bipolar. It also says his dad was a meth addict and his mom bailed. What i want to know is where is the actual proof behind this? Is this just stuff he said? His dad says in another article they don't talk because of KYs "crappy choices"

 

[Scout87]

The physical and sexual abuse from when KY was younger. The drugs he was talking over the course of several years. Abandonment and separation issues. Being drunk on at least 2 of the 3 assaults on other women. Killing several kittens, as others I've contacted through facebook have confirmed. The guy clearly has issues beyond his control. He definitely should be locked up for the rest of his life, but in fairness, the kid wasn't dealt a fair hand. The person that was responsible for abusing him(rumor is his father) is just as responsible for creating the monster that took out those two girls.Just unfortunate nobody tried to reach out and help him before it was too late.

Absolutely. Some monsters are born, others are created. I absolutely believe that KY's circumstances made him into the monster he is today. I feel sorry for the child he once was. It's sad to think that if just one person had reached out to help him in a concrete way when he was younger, he could be so much different than what he has become. As a teacher I see so many sad cases of kids in horrible home situations and I hate to think that one day, this or something like it could be their path. They are so small and all they know is turmoil. People have to realize that children are moldable - they become what they see and they absorb what goes on around them. If only a little more care had been taken, who could he have been. This is such a sad case on all sides.

 

[Claireishere]

Absolutely. Some monsters are born, others are created. I absolutely believe that KY's circumstances made him into the monster he is today. I feel sorry for the child he once was. It's sad to think that if just one person had reached out to help him in a concrete way when he was younger, he could be so much different than what he has become. As a teacher I see so many sad cases of kids in horrible home situations and I hate to think that one day, this or something like it could be their path. They are so small and all they know is turmoil. People have to realize that children are moldable - they become what they see and they absorb what goes on around them. If only a little more care had been taken, who could he have been. This is such a sad case on all sides.

which is what makes me question the diagnosis of sociopath. Sociopaths are born not created.

 

[Scout87]

which is what makes me question the diagnosis of sociopath. Sociopaths are born not created.

Not always. Psychologists often say that psychopaths are born with a genetic predisposition and that sociopaths are typically created by the circumstances of their environment. Some psychologists say that we can't really know for certain, but that some research shows genetics can account for about 50% of the cause of sociopathy in a person while the other 50% is attributed to environmental factors. Both still fall under the heading of antisocial personality disorder. If Kylr genuinely has bipolar disorder, it still doesn't rule out antisocial personality. They often go hand in hand. It also makes sense if he has antisocial personality disorder for him to have been diagnosed as bipolar when he was younger. Antisocial personality is not diagnosed until age 18 while bipolar can be diagnosed in childhood.

https://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2015/02/12/differences-between-a-psychopath-vs-sociopath/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...g-the-sociopath-cause-motivation-relationship

 

[Claireishere]

Not always. Psychologists often say that psychopaths are born with a genetic predisposition and that sociopaths are typically created by the circumstances of their environment. Some psychologists say that we can't really know for certain, but that some research shows genetics can account for about 50% of the cause of sociopathy in a person while the other 50% is attributed to environmental factors. Both still fall under the heading of antisocial personality disorder. If Kylr genuinely has bipolar disorder, it still doesn't rule out antisocial personality. They often go hand in hand. It also makes sense if he has antisocial personality disorder for him to have been diagnosed as bipolar when he was younger. Antisocial personality is not diagnosed until age 18 while bipolar can be diagnosed in childhood.

https://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2015/02/12/differences-between-a-psychopath-vs-sociopath/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...g-the-sociopath-cause-motivation-relationship

Thank you so much that's a great post. What confuses me there is if sociopaths are created and not born that way then why can't we undo what led to them being a sociopath? Is there a chance for a sociopath to recover and be a functioning member of society?

 

[Scout87]

Thank you so much that's a great post. What confuses me there is if sociopaths are created and not born that way then why can't we undo what led to them being a sociopath? Is there a chance for a sociopath to recover and be a functioning member of society?

I have no idea All the research I've read says that there is no "cure" for sociopathy, just ways to manage it. https://psychcentral.com/disorders/antisocial-personality-disorder-treatment/

I think some are probably born with the predisposition and then like some of the research says, their environment fuels them to become full fledged sociopaths. Maybe some others are born with the predisposition and it wouldn't make any difference what their environment had been, they would still have become full fledged sociopaths. Others maybe have no predisposition but their lives are filled with such turmoil that sociopathy develops. Maybe if those who are predisposed are reached at an early enough age it can be reversed? But then there's also no test at birth to tell you if someone is going to be a sociopath.

In cases of sociopathy like Bundy though, I'm not sure that can be reversed. I hate to say that someone is un-helpable, but I'm not sure. Perhaps KY was born with the predisposition to antisocial personality disorder and his environment simply was the match to light the flame so to speak. If he'd had a nurturing, loving family life at a young age, would he still be the man he is today, sitting behind bars awaiting murder charges? I'm not so sure.

Anyway sorry for all the rambling! I'm really just trying to learn. I am fascinated by psychology - I almost wish I had gone into forensic psychology or something. I just wish that we knew more about KY's childhood. I'd like to know when he started hurting animals and such. Was he always causing trouble? That would make it easier to determine what he has and how it came to be. I will say based on what we do know, he does meet the warning signs for a serial killer. I'm not saying he is one, but he does meet many of the signs. http://www.crimemuseum.org/2014/06/23/9-early-warning-signs-for-serial-killers-2/

 

[Vail]

I actually think KY is BiPolar I and unmedicated. This explains psychotic episodes, unstable moods and the kind of mania that would make you think you're in love with your friend's GF and are going to marry her and have her children, then spiral into uncontrolled rage when she looks at you like you're crazy.

ETA: And I think it will be used at trial

 

[Claireishere]

I actually think KY is BiPolar I and unmedicated. This explains psychotic episodes, unstable moods and the kind of mania that would make you think you're in love with your friend's GF and are going to marry her and have her children, then spiral into uncontrolled rage when she looks at you like you're crazy.

ETA: And I think it will be used at trial

I think so too. From that article it seems like he has been diagnosed as bipolar for sure. There's a fine line between that and borderline personality as well.

 

[Scout87]

I actually think KY is BiPolar I and unmedicated. This explains psychotic episodes, unstable moods and the kind of mania that would make you think you're in love with your friend's GF and are going to marry her and have her children, then spiral into uncontrolled rage when she looks at you like you're crazy.

ETA: And I think it will be used at trial

He may be. It still doesn't rule out antisocial personality disorder. The symptoms of each overlap and often bipolar disorder coexists with antisocial personality disorder. Antisocial personality disorder also often shows itself as bipolar disorder, and bipolar is often diagnosed at a much younger age because legally, aspd cannot be diagnosed until age 18. My younger sister was diagnosed with bipolar I at age 13 and conduct disorder earlier this year after she turned 15. It is hell to live with and definitely not something to mess around with. (Conduct disorder is basically the adolescent version of antisocial personality disorder.)

I agree, though, regardless of his diagnoses KY's attorney will likely use it at trial. That burden of proof will lie with him and his attorney. He will have to provide a clear, reasonable explanation that because of his illness, he committed this crime and that he didn't mean to do it, he didn't know it was illegal, he didn't understand the ramifications of his actions, or even that some outside force somehow coerced him. It's gonna be a long road to getting justice, that I know for sure.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

There are some people who are just plain evil. I think KY is one of them.

 

[Claireishere]

He may be. It still doesn't rule out antisocial personality disorder. The symptoms of each overlap and often bipolar disorder coexists with antisocial personality disorder. Antisocial personality disorder also often shows itself as bipolar disorder, and bipolar is often diagnosed at a much younger age because legally, aspd cannot be diagnosed until age 18. My younger sister was diagnosed with bipolar I at age 13 and conduct disorder earlier this year after she turned 15. It is hell to live with and definitely not something to mess around with. (Conduct disorder is basically the adolescent version of antisocial personality disorder.)

I agree, though, regardless of his diagnoses KY's attorney will likely use it at trial. That burden of proof will lie with him and his attorney. He will have to provide a clear, reasonable explanation that because of his illness, he committed this crime and that he didn't mean to do it, he didn't know it was illegal, he didn't understand the ramifications of his actions, or even that some outside force somehow coerced him. It's gonna be a long road to getting justice, that I know for sure.

Fortunately the insanity defense is rarely if ever successful.

 

[Scout87]

Fortunately the insanity defense is rarely if ever successful.

True. I'm more concerned that some bleeding heart juror will give him a pass and hang the jury after hearing testimony about his mental issues and poor upbringing.

 

[lizziequinn]

Can someone pm me the link to what FL posted on the tattoo page please. Feel like I'm missing something?

 

[msphilosopher]

We don't really have a clear motive here. About all we can do is speculate. Based on what he said at that party about wanting to marry Jessica and have kids with her, it's possible he made a pass at her and she declined. I think she may have also seen his temper in full force for the first time that night when he was locked out of the party and whatever else was going on and maybe attempted to distance herself and he wasn't having it.

We don't know much about their relationship, though. She had been to his home before as his grandpa said he had seen her car there before, and she was likely seen in that CWD video.

She also went to an interview with him that he had for an apprenticeship at a tattoo parlor, which to me speaks to her being someone who was trying to help him get his life straightened out. Her mother did say that she was a fixer and wanted to help people. (Link here about interview: http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/police-looking-for-21-year-old-missing-woman-from-raytown Statement from the man who interviewed him is in the gray box about halfway down the page - He said he did not resonate with KY or like his presence)

To me, it's likely she had befriended him and was trying to help him get on the right path and he formed an obsessive attachment to her. That's just my own theory though. Like I said, about all we can do at this point is speculate.

Scout87, thank you for this... it is all speculation but these little details do tell us a lot. I was very much puzzled over the motive and now I am not as confused.

I have such a hard time following the details of this case because I just want to cry. It kills me that Kara was victim of this demented soul because she even tried to protect herself against him... you usually don't see that in domestic violence cases with teens. And then it kills me so much that Jessica became a victim because it all could have been prevented... my heartaches for these girls and their families.

 

[lisette]

Wonder why it is taking so long to ID the other person (Kara?) when Jessica was ID'd so quickly?