MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #10

[shefner]

I think it has been abundantly evident that LE does not believe this child was abducted.

 

[jjenny]

Very good arguments as to why it "could" be best for her to remain married. I'm sure there are many of us on this forum who have found themselves in "blended" family situations, or who have lived with someone who is not their legal spouse (raises hand), so I try to be careful to not cast aspersion in a way that questions a person's reputation.

Except her legal husband might be considered the legal father of the now missing child.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Welcome to WebSleuths LadyPirate!! Great to have you!

 

[Celeste]

:fence:

I agree, my almost 3 year old weighs 32 lbs and everyone always comments she's tall for her age and she has always been at the top of the growth chart for height and weight. She is of normal build also.

Makes me wonder what her weight was at her last doctors appointment and when that was.

I'm thinking more like 20lbs, she does not look like a large child from her pictures.

My 12 mo old is by all standards a pretty big boy and he is only 21 lbs. My 2 1/2 yr old is not yet 30 lbs (27, in fact), and she is tall for her age--not skinny, either. If I had to guess, and let's even say she has really heavy bones, I'd guess that Lisa weighs about 21-22 lbs.

 

[Janeumayer]

The story about a window,or more than one window,being open seems to have gone away ? I know I saw it once. I'm thinking that LE is confused as to how a screen was pushed in or out if the window(s) were not open ? MOO

It was quoted on Mark Klaas' blog. That struck me odd too. He said windows were opened.

 

[tlcya]

I think it has been abundantly evident that LE does not believe this child was abducted.

That is your take on it and I respect that

To me the only thing abundantly evident is that LE have named no POI or suspect and are still looking for a missing child.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Lmy0Q5U_k&feature=player_embedded"]Baby Lisa's Parents Take Questions From Reporters - YouTube[/ame]


At :45 JI says WE checked on Lisa and WE realized she was gone.

At 3:14, DB says it was only JI that went into the room to find Lisa missing.

At 2:00, DB looks to JI to answer the question about what the boys are saying and wondering. IMO, the boys may know the truth and she looked to JI to answer this difficult question.

At 2:55, JI says they took all the phones so he or DB could not call anybody. How does he know why the phones were taken? Why did he need to look for his personal cell phone to call 911 if he just arrived home with his work cell phone? Why was his personal cell phone on the kitchen counter next to hers? And of course the big point with the phones is why didn't they bring these missing phones up from the get-go in their interviews?

At 4:33, DB says we are trying to hold it together for our boys. Mentioning Lisa, staying strong for her, is a secondary thought. I think this could be an unintended subtle admission that it IS about the boys, custody of. And that Lisa is gone.

At 6:30, JI is quick to answer the question that the baby wouldn't cry if picked up by someone. It's as if he wants to defend the scenario they have staged, rather than contemplate the question. Also, I find it unlikely the baby wouldn't cry. MOO.

 

[EllaMae]

The sex offender didn't have custody either until he asked for it. He wasn't raising this child, the child was not biologically related to him, yet he still got custody despite being a sex offender. My point is, legal father has rights despite not being related to the child.

I understand your point. But that is an unusual case because the mother of the child is no longer living. That complicates things.

IMHO...
The overwhelming majority of men do not want to financially support a child for many years that is not their biological child, especially if they have no emotional attachment to the child and have never had contact or been in the child's life.

 

[Snowbunny]

I for one don't see this mother being involved in harming her child. I keep going back to thinking about how Peter Hyatt would analyze her statements. She doesn't refer to her child in past tenths and in my honest opinion she is overwhelmed by emotions because her child is missing. I think her emotions are genuine. When I first saw Susan Smith on TV begging for help to find her children I knew she was guilty, but I don't get the same impression when I watch Debbie. That picture of Lisa standing with her hands on the glass of the door just haunts me. Didn't one of the neighbors say they saw a man carrying Lisa down the street or am I off base here? I pray this littleone is found safe and sound.

 

[Jaxson]

Pretty sure it is considered fraud to continue to claim someone as a dependent / eligible for medical insurance if they do not live with you (exception being a minor child who is the legal custody of the other parent).

Also - IIRC the family said that they 'couldn't wrap their heads around' mom being involved - NOT that they found it hard to imagine she was involved. To me their statement was more like "I need to reallllly think about this and consider all the angles". JMO

My sister was living apart from her husband and had a baby with her boyfriend ( long time separation, no hurry to get divorce) hubby kept her on his insurance (they were still married) throughout the pregnancy to help her and her BF out (BF didn't have insurance). It is not against the law. In fact my husband and I have a 23 yr old married daughter living with her husband on our insurance. Law allows that now. She is pregnant and has her own, her husbands and our insurance.

 

[mentalsolstice]

Except her legal husband might be considered the legal father of the now missing child.

I live in a "putative father" state. In my experience, it's pretty easy to clear up.

 

[jjenny]

I understand your point. But that is an unusual case because the mother of the child is no longer living. That complicates things.

IMHO...
The overwhelming majority of men do not want to financially support a child for many years that is not their biological child, especially if they have no emotional attachment to the child and have never had contact or been in the child's life.

While I agree most men wouldn't want to raise or financially support a child that are not biologically related, as the case of a sex offender proves, you never known in a specific case what someone would want to do. And the legal father has rights even if not biologically related to the child born during legal marriage.

 

[mck16]

The case I posted where sex offender got custody, it seems unlikely the mother would list him as the father since he wasn't. The child also has a different last name from the sex offender. He still got custody.

I was just asking the birth certificate question in general. Not specifically to that case. I thought I knew of someone who was married, but had a baby by another man, and listed him as the father on the birth certificate. I didn't know if that would make him legally the father or not. The case you are referring to is a very sad one. I know the grandmother was trying to get custody but have not heard anything lately.

 

[tlcya]

I often use the term "we" as I feel I am a piece of a couple. Sometimes when I am telling a story I lapse between me and we when describing something that has taken place within our family or our home.

That is just me, tho.

 

[Patty G]

Wouldn't an intruder first check the front door before looking for any unlocked or open windows? If the door had been unlocked that night it would make more sense that the perpetrator entered the house through it. The window being checked again today by LE gives the impression they are following up on the theory that the intruder entered via the window and exited through the front door.

MOO

Normally you would think that an intruder would check the door to see if it is opened especially since the corner of that house appears to be darker because of the tree, IIRC. Although, I believe there is a street light a house down from them as well as across the street.

What is very odd is the lights being on.

I would have preferred LE doing this reenactment after midnight or pehaps 2:30 AM in order for them to see what this "alleged" intruder saw IF they actually entered through the window.

Then I would want LE to go back to the house at 4:00 AM to see what the house looks like with the same lights on when Jeramy came home.

 

[cindysue]

I think it has been abundantly evident that LE does not believe this child was abducted.

I can see how they might think that, but I still can't get past the neighbor seeing the man with the baby, the neighbors that heard screams, the neighbor that had her dog possibly released, and the dumpster fire. .. IMO those can't be linked to the parents as far as I can see.

 

[LadyPirate]

Welcome to WebSleuths LadyPirate!! Great to have you!

Thank you! Thank you very much!

 

[mck16]

I can see how they might think that, but I still can't get past the neighbor seeing the man with the baby, the neighbors that heard screams, the neighbor that had her dog possibly released, and the dumpster fire. .. IMO those can't be linked to the parents as far as I can see.

Have not heard about the screams!!

 

[Jaxson]

Electricians in Missouri would be in the union right? I lived there years ago, and dated a union guy. Awesome benefits, and insurance.

I am wondering if maybe there is a paternity issue with baby Lisa. I wonder if they've already done DNA testing to verify JI as the father?

Depends, Tuffy. here are union and non-union electricians everywhere. The union guys get top pay and benefits but if you can't get in the union (usually have to know someone who knows someone kind of thing) then you don't get the awesome pay and bennies...

 

[BeanE]

I think this statistic is related strictly to infants in the first year of life. Since 1983, there have been 278 infants abducted....and all but 12 have been recovered. Almost half of these 278 were taken from hospitals.

The figure for abduction of all children is much higher. In 1999, there were 50,000 non-family child abductions in the US....just to throw a figure out there.

You're right! 278 in 30 years is infants for stereotypical (stranger) abductions.

For all children under 18, it's 797,500 a year, of which only 115 are stereotypical (stranger) abductions.

Dept of Justice stats via NCMEC:
http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/documents/Statistics.pdf

Here are the infant stats, that show the 278:
http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/documents/InfantAbductionStats.pdf

Nonfamily Abducted Children: National Estimates and Characteristics
Defining Nonfamily Abduction and
Related Terms
• Nonfamily abduction: (1) An episode in which a
nonfamily perpetrator takes a child by the use of
physical force or threat of bodily harm or detains
the child for a substantial period of time (at least
1 hour) in an isolated place by the use of physical
force or threat of bodily harm without lawful authority or parental permission, or (2) an episode in
which a child younger than 15 or mentally incompetent, and without lawful authority or parental permission, is taken or detained or voluntarily accompanies a nonfamily perpetrator who conceals the
child’s whereabouts, demands ransom, or expresses
the intention to keep the child permanently.
• Stereotypical kidnapping: A nonfamily abduction
perpetrated by a slight acquaintance or stranger in
which a child is detained overnight, transported at
least 50 miles, held for ransom or abducted with
intent to keep the child permanently, or killed.
• Stranger: A perpetrator whom the child or family do
not know, or a perpetrator of unknown identity.
• Slight acquaintance: A nonfamily perpetrator whose
name is unknown to the child or family prior to the
abduction and whom the child or family did not know
well enough to speak to, or a recent acquaintance who
the child or family have known for less than 6 months,
or someone the family or child have known for longer
than 6 months but seen less than once a month
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196467.pdf