MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #10

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My question is why the metal detectors in the backyard? This seems a little weird to me as not much time has passed. LE would be able to determine if soil had been disturbed recently so why use metal detectors? The only thing I can think of is that they would be looking for something really small or something older than last week. But what and why?

If they had a strong reason to believe that the phones were there, and if a visual search doesn't show anything then I can see why they would go over it with a metal detector at least once. Just to be on the safe side.

However I don't know why they are doing it again. They must be very certain whatever they are looking for is there.

But I keep going back to the thought of losing your keys in your house. You look everywhere you have been. Then you look again the same places. Then you start looking other places in the same area (your house.) Finally you find them someplace stupid. I think this is what they are doing. They checked visually, then with the metal detectors. Now they are going over it again, looking for those places that it couldn't be.

The other day someone had the idea of someone throwing whatever it was on the roof. I do wish someone would tip that, because it would be so easily done.
 
The problem I have with that is that if the cell phones were buried, LE would see the disturbed earth so no need for metal detectors. If they weren't buried, they are large enough to see. Do we know what the backyard looks like? Is it sod, dirt, grass, weeds, etc?

Congrats on your 5000th post by the way!

Thanks!! :)

I haven't seen any pictures of the backyard, but the only thing I can think of is if the backyard is full of weeds or if there are flower gardens with lots of dirt, the phones could have easily been buried in there without looking disturbed.
 
Is the grass long? Cells could be hidden in the grass and leaves, or under toys and has been missed by the eyes.
 
If those phones are in the yard, you'd think they would have found them by now...unless they hadn't searched the entire yard before. I think they must have caught a ping on at least one of them that keeps them in that yard.
Maybe the cell phones were flushed and are pinging from the sewer line under the yard.
 
If that's the case, why was the Amber Alert canceled so soon? I realize that the terms of an AA vary from state-to-state, but when I hear that this all-points-bulletin has been terminated, I assume that local authorities have determined that the child wasn't abducted or isn't "missing".
jmo

At one of the early press conferences (I think it was on Oct 5th, but I'd have to look back at my presser notes, and presser videos to be sure...) LE stated that they would be cancelling the Amber Alert because "it had served it's purpose". They were basically insinuating that everyone would have already seen the Amber Alert broadcasted, and since it wasn't bringing in any leads, they were cancelling it.
 
I'm just not sure what kind of "ah ha" moment they will have if they find a phone in the yard.
 
The "clues' are kind of hokey MOO... An intruder would have tried the front door or back door first. It is the easiest way in..MOO Or he / she would have cut the screen.MOO
The lights all on,lighting up that house like a beacon in the night...

The cell phones gone...

IMO this is either the handiwork of some(s) one desperate to try to cover up a family tragedy, or it is the handiwork of someone very young and unsophisticated...MOO

Either way it doesn't bode well for Lisa.... MOO

I agree that none of this seems to bode well for Lisa:frown: but when an intruder tried to get into my friend's house, the tracking dogs could "tell" that the person went directly for the window....did not even STEP on the front porch.

The story goes like this: They brought a canine from the XXXX police department to come sniff and follow the person's scent. The canines showed that this person parked at the end of our street, hugged close to each house until it got to ours and went right into the backyard, to the slide, and to our window. Amazing that a dog can figure all of this out, but this made me more nervous because it obviously shows this person had intent in coming to our house and didn't even try a door. It's almost as if he had planned that he was coming through the window in advance. The police said it's a weird situation since it was obvious people were home since there were cars in the driveway. Again, which makes all of us nervous because it makes us think he wasn't looking to steal things, but more with an evil intent, as stealing is mostly done during the day when people are not home. I'm obviously upset and all I can keep thinking is this person wanted to hurt one of us or kidnap one of the girls.

The police here believe that this person was watching the family, had probably come to the house on previous occasion to develop their plan on how they would enter.

Wish they would have done more with tracking dogs ASAP in Lisa's case
 
If that's the case, why was the Amber Alert canceled so soon? I realize that the terms of an AA vary from state-to-state, but when I hear that this all-points-bulletin has been terminated, I assume that local authorities have determined that the child wasn't abducted or isn't "missing".
jmo
The reason they gave, anyway:
An Amber Alert for Irwin was issued Tuesday morning, but it was cancelled later in the day because police say the system is primarily designed to raise public awareness early in a missing child case.

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/201...issouri-baby-but-search-continues/?hpt=ng_mid
 
Now, thinking out loud here, at least one of the new phones had to be charged in order for a call to have come in, or gone out from it. And if the call came in, instead of went out from that phone, SOMEONE had the new cell number rather immediately, even sooner than Debbie got all the numbers programed into it. Help me here anyone.

RSBM
The number may not have changed from her old number. When my cell phone broke, I bought a new one from AT&T. I still retained the same phone number I'd had all along, just had a new phone.
 
The number of soiled diapers and contents might be invaluable in determining Lisa's last diaper change, last meal, and even her health at the time. Surely the LE has take all garbage out of house to examine those diapers. The amount of used diapers should fit in with the time Lisa disappeared. If there are not enough dirty diapers there to fit time frame, then we know that something happened to Lisa before the parents are saying.
 
Almost new thread time, about full to the brim.
 
Thanks!! :)

I haven't seen any pictures of the backyard, but the only thing I can think of is if the backyard is full of weeds or if there are flower gardens with lots of dirt, the phones could have easily been buried in there without looking disturbed.

From Judge Pirro's program last night, a brief glimpse of the back yard showed playground equipment, along with a camper shell and the parents also said their dog sleeps in the back yard. Therefore it's possible, in my opinion, that there could be several areas of "disturbed earth".
 
Kmartin -

First of all, if you live ANYWHERE near where baby Lisa does... please make sure the law enforcement in her area is aware of the situation in your area. Even if it is a few hours away.

You say you had doubts about the "stranger came in the middle of the night" story until your friend's experience... if I'm reading correctly

YOUR friend says "Honestly, I can't even let myself think about what would have happened. Praise God our windows stink and are really hard and loud to open because if we had nice new windows, I don't think I would have heard it."

So your friend's story would show that those with nice new windows, even your friend... could easily become a victim without a nice alarm system or an alert dog... or some major luck.

Just my thoughts. Welcome to Web Sleuths. :seeya:


Hi all-
LONGTIME lurker....firstime poster. Just wanted to share a story with all of you. This is because until this (story) happened to a friend of mine, I ALWAYS had major doubts about the 'stranger came in the middle of the night', as statistics alone show this is very rare. BUT...this incident below happened to my friend just a few months ago, and about 30 days later, a similar circumstance at another home about 5 minutes away. These stories were not in our local news, or ANY reports anywhere. I just know about them first hand.....so there must be plenty of 'attempts' we just are never made aware of. I didn't use anyones actual names in this story to protect their privacy. Here is the story-

On Friday XXXX 24th at 1:00 am HUSBAND and I were sound asleep and I was awakened into a lighter sleep because I heard what I thought was HUSBAND opening our window. It seemed to be a struggle for him to get it open and was taking him forever. I asked him what he was doing and when he replied mumbling like he didn't know what I was talking about, I realized he was still sound asleep and that was not him trying to open our window. I jumped out of bed, turned on the flashlight and frantically kept saying HONEY, HONEY, HONEY, someone is opening our window. After HE woke up and him looking at me like I was crazy, we saw the window, which had been closed for the night, half open and the screen behind the window totally pulled up (which was also closed prior). The person must have ran off, but our blinds and drapes were closed so we couldn't see anything. We immediately called 911 while running into the girls rooms to make sure they were okay, thank God, they were. We also ran and locked all of our windows, which I never do...that will obviously change. When the police came to investigate, they saw the Little Tikes baby slide had been pushed up under our window as a ladder. They did fingerprinting on the window and took the screen and slide for fingerprinting. They brought a canine from the XXXX police department to come sniff and follow the person's scent. The canines showed that this person parked at the end of our street, hugged close to each house until it got to ours and went right into the backyard, to the slide, and to our window. Amazing that a dog can figure all of this out, but this made me more nervous because it obviously shows this person had intent in coming to our house and didn't even try a door. It's almost as if he had planned that he was coming through the window in advance. The police said it's a weird situation since it was obvious people were home since there were cars in the driveway. Again, which makes all of us nervous because it makes us think he wasn't looking to steal things, but more with an evil intent, as stealing is mostly done during the day when people are not home. I'm obviously upset and all I can keep thinking is this person wanted to hurt one of us or kidnap one of the girls. It is going to take a long time for me to get over this.

I will say, I have so many praises from this situation because I have no doubt that God was protecting us. Praise God he tried to come in through our window, one window over and it was baby's room. Honestly, I can't even let myself think about what would have happened. Praise God our windows stink and are really hard and loud to open because if we had nice new windows, I don't think I would have heard it. Thank God I woke up when I did and realized that it was not HUSBAND opening the window, honestly one minute later would have made this story different.

So, what's next? We met with an alarm company yesterday and are getting a hard-core alarm system installed. Something we never thought we'd do is that we are seriously considering buying a dog, because we have read it's the number one way of preventing intruders from entering your home. We are pretty much willing to spend whatever we need to in order to protect our family. So sad that this happened, we are forever changed. I hope I can get over this fear and I am sure I will, with time. I never thought this would happen to us, but it's always one of those irrational fears that you think about, but push to the side.

Hope everyone locks your doors and windows at night!



That being said....one of the major red flags for me with Baby Lisa's case is from the FIRST interview I saw with the parents where they mentioned the missing cell phones...'they took them so we couldn't call 911'. I think it was a pre-planned answer. Maybe the dad asked the mom (if he truly came home and found Lisa missing)....why the he77 would they take the phones??....and she had already had an answer to offer up to him, mom desperately hoping dad would 'buy it'. Or, Lisa was not kidnapped, they needed to hide cells to hide something...and they discussed an excuse in advance together. I think it was the first HUGE stumbling block for LE in believing the story. Either parent could have easily said....'that's good, that's good!!!!' It's a way for the police to track them!!!

There's so much MORE to say and to find out. I pray there is some new info today!!
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...e_reward_trust_fund_say_they_will_do_les.html
Missing baby Lisa Irwin's parents announce reward trust fund, say they will do less interviews

BY Meena Hartenstein
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Sunday, October 9th 2011, 2:32 PM


"It seems like they're running out of good leads, so why not give them more?" family spokesman Mike LeRette told the Kansas City Star on Saturday. "We're one phone call away. One person calls in and maybe she's in our arms later today


:maddening: OMG the words of Patsy Ramsey. :hand:
bbm

imo
 
The problem I have with that is that if the cell phones were buried, LE would see the disturbed earth so no need for metal detectors. If they weren't buried, they are large enough to see. Do we know what the backyard looks like? Is it sod, dirt, grass, weeds, etc?

Congrats on your 5000th post by the way!


Think sim card instead of the whole phone. If the sim is taken out the phone is usable with a new sim or from another phone. So if the phones were taken in an abduction and the sim removed and thrown out the phone could have another sim with a different number put in it and it would be usable with the new number. A way to get rid of the phones without getting 'rid' of the phones. Sim cards are very tiny.
 
From the same document BBM: (2) an episode in
which a child younger than 15 or mentally incompetent,
and without lawful authority or parental permission,
is taken or detained or voluntarily accompanies
a nonfamily perpetrator who conceals the
child’s whereabouts, demands ransom, or expresses the intention to keep the child permanently.


I am not denying that there are indeed non-family abductions, my point is that the definition is SO BROAD as to make the figures quotes much less reliable to our discussion. Additionally, (from the same document) only in 21% of these cases are the police even called.


I don't desire to argue over the semantics of child abduction. I doubt I am qualified to do so. The only reason I posted the figure concerning non-family "child" abductions for one year (1999) was to compare it to the infant abductions over 30 years. The figure really has no direct connection to this case in particular and was only given for comparison to infant abductions. In almost 30 years, there have only been 278 non-family INFANT abductions. This is an abduction of a child in the first year of life. Of these, only 12 infants have not been located or recovered. Of the 278, almost half were newborns taken from hospitals. So we can see how few INFANTS are abducted by non-family members. Very few.

In each recent year, the "classic child abduction" figure totals about 110-115. This is what most of us would consider a true child abduction, leaving out all the other particulars that are divided into categories.

The profile of a person who abducts an infant is interesting to study. The profile is almost the exact opposite of classic child abductors.
 
OT: Today's playoff game between the Detroit Tigers and the Texas Rangers has been canceled due to rain.
 
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