MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #10

[momtective]

Originally Posted by BeanE
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA




I never stated that is where the DNA came from because I don't know that it was, only that they were questioning 'a teen' from that house and it fit into my theory that it was not random. I clearly stated that I was not saying anything more about 'this teen' other than there are some known 'issues' and by proximity and personal relationship to the family only this family should be questioned more.

I don't recall anyone stating that the teen on the porch was the teen that was DNA tested. Although this is the only teen in the neighborhood that MSM has directed their camera's at.
I have no idea who was DNA tested and who wasn't.

 

[tlcya]

So, I believe that if they had reasonable cause to believe the teen was involved in any way, they would have taken him/her into custody.

You mean like they've taken the parents into custody, the ones many speculate LE believe were somehow involved?

Sorry, your post is simply my jumping off point and prompting this thought and is not aimed at you or anyone specific.

We have all done a decent job of keeping a cool head in this case although occasionally some of us, myself included, have had our moments of frustration.

In a nutshell, the thought I am trying to express is that while LE may question many, including the parents, associates, neighbors, the mail man, and whoever. No person has been named a suspect or even a POI.

As this day progresses I hope that we can all keep our wits about us in our great concern over baby Lisa.

We are all going to have theories, ideas and things that make us go hmmmmmm . . . and that is the beauty of this site.

I learn the most from those with whom I disagree sometimes.

 

[Gardenlady]

Time for Gardenlady to get some work done in the garden while the weather is so beautiful!

Hoping to come back and see good news for baby Lisa!

 

[vlpate]

I haven't seen Irwin's and Bradley's ages published. Does anyone know their ages?

She's 25 and he's 27, I believe.

 

[saba]

Originally Posted by BeanE
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA




I never stated that is where the DNA came from because I don't know that it was, only that they were questioning 'a teen' from that house and it fit into my theory that it was not random. I clearly stated that I was not saying anything more about 'this teen' other than there are some known 'issues' and by proximity and personal relationship to the family only this family should be questioned more.

So now I'm lost. Did you say that this is the house of the teen who was in the Irwin's house the day Lisa vanished? If not, what personal relationship with the family are you referring to? tia

 

[IAM]

I hope they find the teen is not involved. I canot think of but one motive a male teen would steal a baby girl

 

[BeanE]

It appears to me that the indiviudual sitting on the steps, is the same individual standing with the other people. Take notice of black shirt and jeans and this individual is rather tall.

Thanks. I'm unable to see that blurred picture clearly.

Nevertheless, our verified local has now posted again to clarify that he/she has not identified the person on the steps as the DNA teen, so it's all straight in my head now!

 

[Just K]

Favorite toy was Barney which mom was holding in an interview. Went to bed with a bottle...so not sure if both sippy cup in daytime and bottle at night. But why would that be important? Birthmark on right thigh.

Thanks, I missed the detail on birthmark location.

BUT:
Has anyone told MSM, LE etc if Barney was the favorite toy or is that an assumption based on the fact that the mother has been seen holding it in interviews.

The only importance about a sippy cup would be that it would show the baby's level of development/coordination.

That brings to mind yet another question.

Was a baby bottle found in the crib? Or if Mom removed the bottled at the 10:30 PM peek to check on baby, did she remove the bottle from the crib and was it recovered by LE, later?


So many details...no wonder it took 11 hours to go over the details with the parents. But we only know that it was 11 hours because the mother said that was the case.

LE has said VERY LITTLE. If viewers go back and look at every Capt. Steve Young Interview. 90% of what we have heard, re: the details of LE inquiries and facts surrounding the home and people who have been interviewed, has come from the family not from LE.

 

[Patty G]

Thanks. I'm unable to see that blurred picture clearly.

Nevertheless, our verified local has now posted again to clarify that he/she has not identified the person on the steps as the DNA teen, so it's all straight in my head now!

:great:

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I have a possibly dumb, possibly irrelevant question about the list of 9 or so people drawn up by JI. Why would a woman cheating on her husband kidnap a baby? Sorry, not trying to be dumb or snarky here, but I do not see how those 2 ideas are even related. I understood the other things, like a woman who has recently lost a child, but this one escapes me. Maybe it's because I am happily childfree, or because I've never cheated, I dunno...sometimes I think my tagline should be "expert in neuroscience, generally clueless otherwise."

 

[annalia]

If we heard later that the teen had been at the home and LE didn't thoroughly investigate him, we'd all be calling them out over it.

They need to do their job, that would include investigating anyone and everyone that had been in close proximity to Lisa or the home. That doesn't mean that everyone they're checking out is because they've been deemed a suspect.

JMHO

 

[mrye4709]

I wonder if there are any videos of Lisa with sound to show what her voice sounds like, what she can say, how she cries. Sometimes these things can be very distinct, even the way she toddles or crawls may show some unique something. Hoping she is with someone who wants her and is taking care of her.

 

[SyraKelly]

This is MOO-I think we should just leave the teen alone until we hear from LE that they are involved..I hate to see this teen's life ruined by a pic and maybe by LE trying to excluded them for the reason thier DNA being in the house! I am so glad that is not my teen..please understand I am not trying to be rude or snarky!

 

[elepher50]

A post awhile back (this thread) indicated that mom had been on the computer that night and left the window open in the computer room. I may have missed this in MSM - anybody recall this being reported in MSM?

Do we know if any computers have been removed from the house for investigative purposes? This could be a good lead if mom was in contact with someone on the computer that night.

 

[grandmaj]

I don't know the jury is still out for me. I think there is lots we don't know. I also don't recall there every being a hastily called Police Press Conference saying the teen wasn't cooperating like in the case of the parents. I still keep an open mind until more evidence is in.

 

[BeanE]

Originally Posted by BeanE
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA




I never stated that is where the DNA came from because I don't know that it was, only that they were questioning 'a teen' from that house and it fit into my theory that it was not random. I clearly stated that I was not saying anything more about 'this teen' other than there are some known 'issues' and by proximity and personal relationship to the family only this family should be questioned more.

Thank you so much for clarifying this, Middle. :grouphug:

 

[bubblesdoe]

Been thinking about this last night and trying to put it all down in writing this morning. It is just MY OWN OPINION of what I think might have happened based on the facts we know and my own maternal instinct and how I would react (well except that I wouldn't try to make it look like my baby were kidnapped!). It also pulls together a lot of snips of theories people have posted related to if the mom is involved.

First off I think that these are very loving parents. I think Lisa was adored and well cared for. But I think there was a tragic accident that caused her death. Could have been something "violent" like being dropped or being smothered or falling out of the crib, but I think that it involved cold medicine. I also think that Mom was/is not capable of "dumping" her daughter, she had to have someone else do that. I can't imagine a mom with no other mental or emotional issues could just abandon their beloved child's body somewhere.

I think Mom gave her something for her cold and based the dose off of 30 pounds because she really has no concept of how much she weighed. OR that she just made a mistake and confused teaspoon and Tablespoon or the decimal point of ml. to give her. At that age you would usually use a medicine syringe to give a baby their meds. (Or it was put in her bottle.) I know mine always ended up dribbling some on their shirt, and sometimes on the crib sheet if I put them down immediately after so I think there should be evidence of the meds being given, unless it was gotten rid of.

I think Mom checked on her sometime later-- maybe 10:30, maybe later and realized that she was dead. I think she panicked big time. I think she quickly realized or at least believed that she had given her too much med and realized she would be arrested, put in jail and lose custody of her son. She is distraught over losing one child and doesn't want to lose the other one. And since Lisa is "the glue that holds the family together" she knows that she will lose Dad too. Her life as she knows it will be over. So she calls someone for help (OR someone else happens to already be there) and to ask what to do. A friend, family member, neighbor, someone. If she is sure that Lisa is dead and not capable of being revived then she may not think that calling 911 should be her first response. They give her very bad advice and do not tell her to call 911. Instead they tell her to sit tight and they will be over and help take care of it.

This person comes over and it is decided to stage it as a kidnapping. Accomplice will take the body somewhere, I am guessing to the river. Not much to clean up in the house if it was just an overdose of meds. One of them tampers with the screen/window. But mom is just distraught and distracted so isn't really able to adequately stage the house. At some point after 2:30ish am the accomplice also reminds her that since they communicated by phone that the cell phones need to disappear. Since it is supposed to look like a kidnapping dumping just the one phone that was used would look stupid, they have to make it look like all 3 were stolen. Someone throws them into the woods, maybe mom, maybe the accomplice, I think mom. I don't think mom has a clear enough head to think to remove the batteries or sim cards, she is just trying to get them out of the house. Accomplice might think to remove batteries and cards.

Accomplice burns the baby's clothes in the dumpster because 1. they have med stain on them so that would show what med was given and 2. it would delay identification of the body when/if it were found. Medicine syringe also may have been put in the dumpster and any blankets or towels that might have evidence on them.

Not sure when or how the son gets into the bed, he either was put to sleep in there or the mom gets him and brings him in. You know how we often say "hug your kids tighter today" after a tragic death-- she is keeping her son close because he is her only child left now. I don't think the boys know anything. Kids this age aren't that great at lying and covering things up-- they would have said something to someone by now, just like that "balloon boy" did in the interview.

I am sure mom couldn't get to sleep. I would think she was in a daze and emotionally drained and shocked. She forgets to turn out the lights and lock the door and just goes to hold her son and eventually falls asleep or pretends she is asleep. (I think she was pretending, not enough time to actually fall asleep in the state she would have been in) Or she is still up in the house and hears Dad come in and runs to the bedroom to make it look like she was asleep and of course can't turn the lights off in time. I think I would have been in my baby's room just sitting there holding something of hers (Barney?) and crying my eyes out.

I think her tears and grief are genuine, but because she knows that Lisa is gone and she is grieving for her. And now she is in over her head. Not only will she be arrested for this if she confesses but she brought someone else in that will also have their life ruined by their involvement. And that person could also be reminding her to keep quiet every time they see each other if it is a family member or close friend. I do think (hope) that she will crack.

Of course I also hope that I am terribly wrong and will be the first to shout Hallelujah if I am! I hope mom is not involved and of course that Lisa was taken by someone that wanted a baby and she is being taken care of and will be reunited with them soon. I did believe that initially but too much seems to be adding up that puts a whole lot of doubt on that.

Here are the questions I want to know the answer to:
1. Did Mom seem like she always does when awakened from a deep sleep. Did her face look red, her eyes swollen or glassy? Did she look like she had been crying recently? My husband would know in an instant if something was off like that.

2. Was there an unusual amount of used facial tissue found in the trash? I want to think that if mom is involved then she was distraught and thus would have been using a whole bunch of tissue to blow nose/dry eyes. If it were me I would have been puking (that is what I do under stress and emotional distress) so I wonder if they might have also found evidence of that like towels used to wipe her face or evidence in the bathroom.


All of this is MOO!!! If I have overstepped any bounds in posting this then please remove or edit it.

 

[In da Middle]

The facts.

All MSM has reported is that a teenager, not the teenager pictured but A teenaged neighbor was questioned for about an hour, and because he had been in the home of Lisa he had DNA taken.

And that the youth lived at the house in the video.

All the rest is RUMOR.

Exactly!!

 

[cluciano63]

I have a possibly dumb, possibly irrelevant question about the list of 9 or so people drawn up by JI. Why would a woman cheating on her husband kidnap a baby? Sorry, not trying to be dumb or snarky here, but I do not see how those 2 ideas are even related. I understood the other things, like a woman who has recently lost a child, but this one escapes me. Maybe it's because I am happily childfree, or because I've never cheated, I dunno...sometimes I think my tagline should be "expert in neuroscience, generally clueless otherwise."

Seems like a very weird way to get added to a list of possible child kidnappers to me...what does cheating on husband have to do with anything? Good grief, I'd hate to be the woman or women having LE come to my door because of that...

Also, so far we have really only heard the parents' versions of what LE has said or done...I don't consider any of it fact until LE confirms it, personally.

 

[liz b.]

Was the window with the screen tampered with open ? Because how else could the screen be either pushed in or out ? MOO Aren't most screens flush with the window ? Could swear I had read that that window was open, but have not seen that in a while..

IF it was Deb who left all the lights on, it sounds like she was afraid to be alone with the children at night..MOO In that case, she probably would have locked the front door... She said that she couldn't remember if she locked it or not ? IDK if the lights were part of any staging ? Because, why would Jeremy ever have mentioned them ? He went around turning the lights off when he came home ? It is counter-intuitive to think that an intruder would turn all the lights on... It sound like a dumb way to stage an apparent kidnapping of a baby.MOO

I would love to know the results of the print taking and dna, especially around the baby's room, crib, door knob, bedding etc....