MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #3

[Truthwillsetufree]

This scares the livin' daylights out of me.
If this was in fact an abduction, the perp (in MHO) has done this before.
It would require nerves of steel and a big set of cajones to break into a window, go throught a house, confiscate cell phones, go to the baby's room, get the baby up and out of the crib without waking the baby, walk to the front door, get it unlocked and out the front on his way without waking the three other people inside.
I'm guessing there were no dogs and no alarm system....how lucky for this intruder....
Prayers for this Beautiful child.......

 

[tlcya]

3 phones, one of which is reported to have been non-working. So two working phones, one adult in the home.

1 phone = mom's (most likely)
1 phone = maybe dad's (probably not, more likely his is at work with him)

It ocurs to me that the second working phone in the home that night may be being used as a "home phone"

My SIL got a plan a few years back that offered 3 phones for the low low price of $___ . . . if you signed the two year contract for service.

She disconnected her land line. Used 1 cel phone as hers, gave the 2nd to her teenage son, and then used the 3rd as their "home phone". This phone always stayed in the home and was the one she listed as the home phone on documents requiring a phone number. It rarely got used for outgoing calls, but it kept sales calls, collections calls, etc from going to her main phone which she carried with her. That way she could screen the calls on teh "home phone" and return them at her convenience.

It is also possible that one of the cel phones was being used as the "business" phone.

Forgive me if this has been covered. Has it been confirmed that dad started a new job that night (as in with an employer)? I have read that dad is an electrician and often different job sites are described as a new "job".

I am wondering if he started work on a new job site and not with a new employer. Do we know that dad is not self employed as an electrical contractor? If he started work at a new job site, this could also explain the oddness of work hours (nighttime). Often when contractors are working on commercial buildings it is necessary to perform the work at night, after business hours, so as not to disrupt normal business.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[SurfieTX]

the father could have had a work cell phone (my dh does)... he does not take his personal one to work

just throwing that out there

I agree. Every company where my DH worked provided a work van/truck also provided a Nextel phone. As far as the one phone not working, that could be easily explained in a home with kids - it was washed, dropped in a toilet, dropped, kicked, etc.

 

[AnaTeresa]

BBM. I seriously doubt this is the case. More likely, dad listed any and all people he could think of where he had disagreements, or they acted off/odd, or had issues with other family members. There are not occult cults going around and kidnapping babies, just as there are not occult members running daycare centers and molesting toddlers.

I was just throwing ideas out.


Could you explain this more? I think I need more coffee lol.

Sure. See: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_County_child_abuse_cases"]Kern County child abuse cases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The Kern County child abuse cases started the day care sexual abuse hysteria of the 1980s in Kern County, California.[1] The cases involved claims of Satanic ritual abuse that were performed by pedophile sex rings with as many as 60 children testifying they had been abused. At least 36 people were convicted and most of them spent years imprisoned. 34 convictions were overturned on appeal. The district attorney responsible for the convictions was Ed Jagels,[2] who was sued by at least one of those whose conviction was overturned,[3] and who remained in office until 2009.[4] Two of the convicted died in prison and were unable to clear their names.

Any time the theory that an occult group was involved in a crime against a child or children, this is what I think of. Occult groups which prey on children are very, very rare, if they even exist at all. You may have someone acting solo, with a mental disorder which fixates on the occult, but that's not an occult group, nor is it actual practice.

Groups/Beliefs/Religions/Sects which actually perform ritual sacrifices (generally chickens), do not sacrifice babies. Many beliefs/religions that are termed occult do not even practice ritual sacrifice.

 

[Shelby1]

It's a fairly common urban legend that occult groups run daycares and such to indoctrine the children and molest them. It seems to have stemmed from these two incidents (excuse the Wiki link, it's a good summary) a (now discredited) book called Michelle Remembers and the McMartin Preschool trial and the Day care sex abuse hysteria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (another Wiki link) of the 1980s and early 1990s.

Ohhhhh, ok, I've never even heard of this! When I threw that idea out, I wasn't meaning this specific thing.

Thank you for helping me understand.

 

[Shelby1]

Sure. See: Kern County child abuse cases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Any time the theory that an occult group was involved in a crime against a child or children, this is what I think of. Occult groups which prey on children are very, very rare, if they even exist at all. You may have someone acting solo, with a mental disorder which fixates on the occult, but that's not an occult group, nor is it actual practice.

Groups/Beliefs/Religions/Sects which actually perform ritual sacrifices (generally chickens), do not sacrifice babies. Many beliefs/religions that are termed occult do not even practice ritual sacrifice.

Thank you for helping me. I've never heard of this before!

I was just throwing ideas off the top of my head.

The nine suspects just made me think of some kind of "group".

 

[fraudqueen]

OMG!! He also said the lights were on in her room...what is going on? Who turns on a light to kidnap a baby? And stops to pick up the phones? I don't like the sounds of this...don't know what to think.
As for entering by using the window...my LE hubby looked at the pictures and said getting in would be a piece of cake.
everything MOO

 

[Elley Mae]

BBM. I must have missed this? How do we know this? TIA

http://www.kmbc.com/news/29404237/detail.html

Bradley and Lisa's father Jeremy Irwin also revealed that their cellphones were missing after Monday night's abduction.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Drugs? Gambling? Loan Sharks?

This is often the first thing that pops into people's mind when there has been a kidnapping or abduction. My thinking is that, a drug dealer or a loan shark do not want the hassle of a 10 month old baby nor would they want the full force of LE breathing down their necks. Drug dealers and Loan Sharks want Money, not babies. JMO FWIW.

 

[SuziQ]

3 phones=Mom and two sons.

 

[nursebeeme]

with the three cell phones sitting on the counter in sight they could have been taken as an after thought (moo)

If the door was unlocked and a window was open most likely the perp went in the window and out the door (unlocking it from the inside)

dad most likely had a work cell phone (I am sure all current electric would provide that sort of thing) most likely that is what he called 911 on


this is all just my opinion... I don't think the phones were taken because they had something on them...

again just moo

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.kmbc.com/news/29404237/detail.html

Bradley and Lisa's father Jeremy Irwin also revealed that their cellphones were missing after Monday night's abduction.

I think they were speaking in general. IMO. It doesn't state dad didn't have his phone.

 

[nursebeeme]

one of the cell phones didn't work and mom was in the midst of transfering her contacts (she says in the video)


I am thinking the cell phones were dad and mom's personal cell phones and one of them broke/one was a new replacement


again moo

 

[SarahW]

I thought it was reported early on that it was LE who took the cell phones.

I'm guessing that was garbled by a reporter...who misunderstood the meaning of "taken cellphones". I think that info was reported second hand, through relatives...and misunderstood .

 

[SurfieTX]

Is there a presser scheduled for 9:00 a.m. today?

 

[Shyla]

I am not trying to be lazy and not read the previous threads but I can't keep up. So if I am understanding this correctly, Mom put baby down for the night, dad came home from work at 3 a.m. and found Lisa missing....is that right? Poor sweet baby, I have prayed for her safe return.

 

[~n/t~]

This is often the first thing that pops into people's mind when there has been a kidnapping or abduction. My thinking is that, a drug dealer or a loan shark do not want the hassle of a 10 month old baby nor would they want the full force of LE breathing down their necks. Drug dealers and Loan Sharks want Money, not babies. JMO FWIW.

I was just throwing out theories based on Lisa's age. She is only 10 months old and can easily be sold for $$$.

You give me the money or your kid is gone type of scenario.

 

[SarahW]

Maybe the cellphones were "pinged" and that's why the rap ell down the cliff was described as "not arbitrary".


Disposing of cellphones wouldn't destroy cell phone usage records, so it's not like tossing them would hide Any act of the parents. but why didn't Dad have a cell with him at work.? He must have had one on his person or in the truck.

 

[Shelby1]

Lisa Irwin Timeline

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house. UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct. 3620 block of North Lister 64117

UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.

~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

_____________________________________________________________________

​

Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the mothers children from another relationship)

Father is electrician that works nights. Just started job on this night.--Jeremy

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-aut...rch-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P

**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.

Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.


** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv

**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz


Next news conference sometime this afternoon.

2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.

**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.


Thursday October 6, 2011


**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.

**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:

~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

 

[jd3223]

The lights being on should not be a big deal. When my husband is not home I tend to turn on the porch lights and might even leave a light on in the kitchen. She may have left lights on for her husband so he wouldn't bump into things when he came in from work.

My children have some lamps that you turn on by touch. They have a 60 watt bulb so the first touch is 20 watts, the second is 40 watts, and the third touch is 60 watts. They may have used a lamp in her room as a night light. It's easier to check on your baby in the night if it isn't pitch black.

We also have sound machines in all the children's rooms. That way if our dog barks, or one of the kids call out it doesn't wake the other kids.

I think the suspicion comes from us not wanting to believe that this was random. If it is random that means it could truly happen to any of us.