MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #5

[SurfieTX]

Thank Elepher, I wasn't very clear in my post, :doh: :crazy:

I meant the Neighbors houses, Not Baby Lisa's House,

I haven't seen a detailed search of all the neighbors homes with dogs...

Or did I miss that.....:waitasec:

I really must get better glasses...:crazy:

ETA: Thanks Elepher, I see your ETA upthread.... :giggle:...

I could be wrong, but I think In Da Middle had her house searched, but I don't think with dogs.

 

[iluvmua]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/0...s-police-accused-her/?test=latestnews#content

 

[emucalfskin]

I've noticed some people have put that baby Lisa was sick and therefore questioning clothing and why mum didn't check on her through the night etc...

I don't recall ever seeing this and was wondering if people may have got mixed up with Aliayah Lunsford case?

 

[tlcya]

MOO

This is all semantics.

To LE "the parents have indicated they will no longer cooperate" may mean what parents indicate as "after 11 hours of questioning we wanted a break and told them we'd like to leave" (paraphrasing both) meaning we will answer more questions later but its been 11 hours and we would like to end this interrogation for the moment and will be available for more question later.

Is it possible that what LE took as refusal to continue to cooperate was actually meant by parents as we want a break???

After watching the GMA interview, I still don't get the sense these folks are responsible. I know that others will feel differently, but I just don't get any deception from them. Who knows, maybe I will end up eating crow later but for now, I still think this was an abduction. By someone who either knows the family or surveilled the home prior.

 

[davehead21]

I've noticed some people have put that baby Lisa was sick and therefore questioning clothing and why mum didn't check on her through the night etc...

I don't recall ever seeing this and was wondering if people may have got mixed up with Aliayah Lunsford case?

Baby Lisa has a cold and a cough, it was in the original Amber Alert and is on her missing flyer.

ETA-- http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PsPlmjeUT...fA/RXd6tbWTjxE/s1600/IRWIN%2C+LISA+POSTER.jpg

 

[elepher50]

I think the command post was closed because the perimeter around the house/searches in that area have been exhausted:twocents:

There was pre-warning by at least a day that they would be closing it down once they finished with the danged woods. This is all in MSM links - am running late and can't fish them out right now. I was not surprised that they closed it down - they said they were going to scale back the ground search.

 

[peeples]

I'm with you TL after the today show interview i also think they had nothing to do with baby lisa missing

 

[elepher50]

MOO

This is all semantics.

To LE "the parents have indicated they will no longer cooperate" may mean what parents indicate as "after 11 hours of questioning we wanted a break and told them we'd like to leave" (paraphrasing both) meaning we will answer more questions later but its been 11 hours and we would like to end this interrogation for the moment and will be available for more question later.

Is it possible that what LE took as refusal to continue to cooperate was actually meant by parents as we want a break???

After watching the GMA interview, I still don't get the sense these folks are responsible. I know that others will feel differently, but I just don't get any deception from them. Who knows, maybe I will end up eating crow later but for now, I still think this was an abduction. By someone who either knows the family or surveilled the home prior.

We may have to eat crow together on this one and I usually don't state one way or another my opinion on a case. This one I do truly believe it was a "non-family" abduction and by someone who knew the layout/switches/bedrooms/etc.

My hink meter is not up on the parents at all.

 

[~n/t~]

Did they bring in the tracker dogs?

Yes, IIRC, it led to nowhere.

 

[Elley Mae]

I've noticed some people have put that baby Lisa was sick and therefore questioning clothing and why mum didn't check on her through the night etc...

I don't recall ever seeing this and was wondering if people may have got mixed up with Aliayah Lunsford case?

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/06/justice/missouri-missing-girl/index.html



. She currently has a cold with a cough, police said.

 

[saba]

When a baby goes missing, LE knows that they MUST "solve" the case. The public demands it. If they can't find clear evidence that the family did NOT cause the disappearance through process of elimination, they begin to focus on the family. Then all gloves are off. They will do anything to imply that the family is guilty. They will lie to the family. They will stalk them. They will misconstrue statements. Literally ANYTHING, until they can piece together enough circumstantial "evidence" to cobble together a workable story. And make no mistake about it - there is enough flexibility in every ones life that a skilled story-weaver could make any of us look suspicious or downright guilty.

Even confessions are not really reliable. I am doing my thesis on false repressed memories. I have seen a lot of data about false confessions during my research. The human brain can easily be manipulated into remembering things that didn't really happen, and when the human is stressed and exhausted it is almost child's play to get a confession - real or otherwise.

This is why lawyers will tell the family to not cooperate. Sure, in the first day or two it is imperative that the family do whatever they can. But at this point, LE is simply walking around looking for a dead body. if the baby is dead, finding her will not change it. If the baby is alive, searching fields and streams will not find her. And the more the family unwittingly cooperates, the more they may be handing LE the hammer to nail themselves, right or wrong.

Now, lets say the family is innocent. They have just had the absolutely worst thing in the entire world happen to them. And NOW, they are being circled by the LE vultures who just need to solve this case. A lawyer will tell them that no matter what they say they will not be able to convince people that they are innocent. And the lawyers are right. Short of finding the baby with DNA evidence otherwise, this family is in for the most horrible ride of their life.

The least we can do at this point is give the family the benefit of the doubt. Look at it as a balance scale. Go ahead and pile stuff on one side or another, but wait until the scale is so far down on one side that there is no doubt before you condemn this family. Just remember, if you are wrong, you are personally adding to the horrific injustice that has befallen this family. If they are guilty, it will come out eventually and your hands will be karmic-ly clean.

My goodness. I have more than a few questions about what has gone on, a ton of red flags popping up all over, I feel free to say so, and I don't feel the least bit Karmic-ly dirty. For starters, I don't equate LE with vultures.

 

[luckyme]

I have to say that i have been in the middle of a few police investigations. not by choice. It was not fun. They can be down right ugly. I was forced to identify a body that i told the detectives that i couldnt do. It was awful. I had to make a statement for a friend and when i reread the statement there was stuff in there that i never said. It can be grueling. moo

 

[Shelby1]

Good morning, everyone.

Lisa Irwin Timeline

Monday October 3, 2011

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.

UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.

3620 block of North Lister 64117

CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011

Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.

UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.

Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG


~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

_____________________________________________________________________

​

Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)

Father is electrician that works nights. Just started job on this night.--Jeremy

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-aut...rch-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P

**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.

Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.


** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv

**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz


Next news conference sometime this afternoon.

2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.

**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.


Thursday October 6, 2011


**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.

**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:

~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)




http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.

**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”

**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.

**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.

***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lis...scussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story

**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4


Originally Posted by BeanE [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7196439#post7196439"]

[/ame]--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM

Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM

Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM

Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM


http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg


"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG


Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3

 

[tlcya]

what got me was mom saying she knows that LE is just doing their job, and understands they need to question them, and at some points she wanted to end the questioning (hammering) but that she wanted to do whatever was necessary to find Lisa. That broke my heart and felt genuine to me.

I am able to empathize and put myself in her spot. Hour after hour of circular questioning, the veiled accusations. Slamming the photo down on the table and saying "do what is best for Lisa - tell us the truth!"

I can only imagine how hard that is as a parent to take.

Not slamming LE, I get that it is what needs to happen, parents must be looked at but as the parent that must be excruciating if you know you are not involved and it feels like LE focus has stuck on you instead of moving outward to where you know the answer must lie.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Last night before I headed to bed posts were being made that the parents got an attorney. Is it true or was it a rumour? If true, then I can understand why LE would say they weren't cooperating if during the questioning they seized to answer questions and told LE they would get an attorney.

Just jumping off your post.

After following several missing children cases I can honestly say that parents getting an attorney is not unusual at all.

I've been trying to keep up with case but I admit, I've not read all the posts.

I remember quite well when LE advised D. Thompson (Somer's Mom) to get an attorney. Not that they thought she was guilty of anything, but to have someone to help her with the high profile case. Media interviews and such. A lot of people assumed that since she got the attorney, she was guilty of something. She absolutely was not.

IMO (right now anyway) the parents did not hurt this child.
Of course my opinion can change.

JMO

 

[BeanE]

MOO

This is all semantics.

To LE "the parents have indicated they will no longer cooperate" may mean what parents indicate as "after 11 hours of questioning we wanted a break and told them we'd like to leave" (paraphrasing both) meaning we will answer more questions later but its been 11 hours and we would like to end this interrogation for the moment and will be available for more question later.

Is it possible that what LE took as refusal to continue to cooperate was actually meant by parents as we want a break???

After watching the GMA interview, I still don't get the sense these folks are responsible. I know that others will feel differently, but I just don't get any deception from them. Who knows, maybe I will end up eating crow later but for now, I still think this was an abduction. By someone who either knows the family or surveilled the home prior.

I played the video several times where the reporter asked them to set the record straight and were they involved. Mom and Dad both looked directly into the camera. Dad said "No", flat out, no flinching. Mom said "Absolutely not", flat out, no flinching (just crying copiously). Both looking directly into the camera and holding it.

I don't think at this point that they're involved. They thanked LE profusely. Said they need them. Said they need everyone to look for baby Lisa.

I think they're just majorly stressed. Hopefully they'll go talk with LE again today. Maybe they can visit a counselor, and try to destress a little bit.

 

[Cher352]

Parents' GMA interview Video from this morning w/Robin Roberts:

Baby's Parents: 'We've Never Stopped Cooperating'
Jeremy Irwin, Deborah Bradley talk to Robin Roberts about their missing child.
04:46 | 10/07/2011

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/mis...perating-14688869?tab=9482931&section=1206833

Good interview, I just love Robin...thanks!

From what was said there sounds like LE convinced from the beginning it was the mom and went at her non-stop and she just let them....said whatever it takes.

I just don't understand LE statements last night....wish we knew what is going on for real.

 

[CarrieBean]

I really hate the 'tone' of this situation - Parents not talking to cops - cops refusing to search if the parents won't help them ..... It's all a bit childish! Isn't there a 10 MONTH OLD MISSING?!

I don't believe this is what is happening. I think they're just trying to get a reaction out of the parents. If so, it would be incredibly stupid on their behalf. Lawsuit.

 

[emucalfskin]

Baby Lisa has a cold and a cough, it was in the original Amber Alert and is on her missing flyer.

ETA-- http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PsPlmjeUT...fA/RXd6tbWTjxE/s1600/IRWIN%2C+LISA+POSTER.jpg

Thank you for this... I am surprised her mum managed to sleep through the abduction. I would wake up if my little one had a cough and would wake up automatically through the night to keep checking she was okay... and I have a baby monitor with the pad under the mattress that beeps if no breathing/movement is felt. I am an overanxious mother though!

 

[KDB]

I think the parents had absolutely nothing to do with it... especially after watching the Today Show interview. I think this was an LE interrogation tactic that went terribly wrong and just made the parents shut down. I can't imagine being in their shoes trying to cope with the fact that their baby is gone and having LE tell you they think you did it. I'm assuming in their minds, they thought LE was focusing on them and not focusing on finding Lisa... can't say I blame them in shutting down, even if only for the afternoon. This has to be grueling.

I'm ready to eat some crow if I'm wrong but I think the parents are completely innocent and just trying to find their baby.