MO - Ralph Yarl, 16, shot twice for ringing the doorbell at the wrong house by mistake, Kansas City, Apr 2023 *arrest*

[Cryptic]

Snipped for focus.

I'm not sure what this means?

As the shooter was in his house, his action would not be placed under any new amped up syg laws. Rather, his actions would be placed under the state's 'Castle Doctrine'.

 

[ilovewings]

This case really gets to me like Trayvon Martin, like Ahmaud Aubrey: total innocents doing absolutely nothing to provoke being attacked/ gunned down.
It is also disappointing that this man was not initially charged and you wonder if there was not so much outcry and push back if he would have been charged at all. Now he is saying the child was trying to get in his home. It is sickening. Fortunately this child survived, but with serious injuries including traumatic brain injury. I saw his family being interviewed: his mother is a nurse and there are lots of medical professionals in the family, which is why he was allowed to go home
and be taken care of there.

 

[Gut_feeling]

Andrew Lester faces life in prison for shooting Ralph Yarl. What to know about charges

This article answers many of the questions we have posed here.

"

What is first degree assault? Felony charges in KC shooting of Ralph Yarl, explained​

Natalie Wallington
April 18, 2023, 12:11 pm
Days after the shooting of 16-year-old Ralph Yarl after the teen rang the wrong doorbell in Kansas City’s Northland and following a weekend of protests and community outrage, prosecutors charged a Clay County man with two felonies. The night he was shot, Yarl was trying to pick up his younger siblings and mixed up E. 115th Terrace and E. 115th Street.
The suspect, 84-year old Andrew Lester, faces one count of assault in the first degree and one count of armed criminal action. Both of these are felonies, and the assault charge is considered a class A felony because it caused “serious physical injury.”
First degree assault is Missouri’s name for the charge other states call attempted murder, a local criminal defense lawyer told The Star. That means there is no separate attempted murder count that Lester could have been charged with.

“It’s the highest level offense in the state of Missouri,” Clay County prosecutor Zachary Thompson said during a Monday press conference.

Combined, these charges carry a maximum sentence of 45 years, or life in prison. Some have called for Lester, who is white, to face hate crime charges as well, arguing that the shooting was racially motivated. Yarl is Black.
“Clearly, race was a factor in this shooting. Therefore, it is my hope that federal hate crime charges will also be filed against Andrew Lester,” said Gwen Grant, president and CEO of the Urban League of Greater Kansas City. “He has not shot any white people who rang his doorbell.”

Clay County prosecutors decided against pursuing hate crime charges on Monday, but it’s still possible for Lester to face additional federal charges.
Yarl, an honor student at Staley High School, was released from the hospital on Sunday and is recovering from his injuries at home."
There is more to this article, please see link above

 

[Cryptic]

Some states (I had to google this) are more generous than others, in what you're allowed to do ?

'Castle Doctrine' is a Common Law concept that one does not need to retreat if one is at home.

All states have it. Likewise, no state gives Castle Doctrine a blank check. As @evilwise mentioned, one still needs to demonstrate that a threat existed.

But... as you implied, the Case Law surrounding Castle Doctrine can be very different between states.

This can lead to judges, prosecutors, appellate courts etc. allowing "threat" to be defined very broadly. Or, holding "threat" to be near presumed unless conclusively demonstrated otherwise.

 

[airportwoman]

This case really gets to me like Trayvon Martin, like Ahmaud Aubrey: total innocents doing absolutely nothing to provoke being attacked/ gunned down.
It is also disappointing that this man was not initially charged and you wonder if there was not so much outcry and push back if he would have been charged at all. Now he is saying the child was trying to get in his home. It is sickening. Fortunately this child survived, but with serious injuries including traumatic brain injury. I saw his family being interviewed: his mother is a nurse and there are lots of medical professionals in the family, which is why he was allowed to go home
and be taken care of there.

And it turned out the boy was not, like, ahem, one of, you, know, THOSE people.

 

[BrownRice]

does anybody nearby know the distance between the crime scene and where the siblings were? I tried to look on a map but there were a lot os 115 sts- N.,S., etc. and terraces and it was really unclear to me.

Curious if the shooter's neighborhood a place where no one ever rings a doorbell and also curious if his neighbors say anything about him.

Who in the heck names streets like this. My mother in law lives in a retirement community and it’s the same. The same numbered streets with St, Ave, and Rd. And then add in the NW and SE etc. How hard is it to use other street names.

 

[airportwoman]

Who in the heck names streets like this. My mother in law lives in a retirement community and it’s the same. The same numbered streets with St, Ave, and Rd. And then add in the NW and SE etc. How hard is it to use other street names.

I live in a multi-city where one town is notorious for having streets with names like 34th Avenue A, 16th Street Court C, etc. Thank heavens for Google Maps.

 

[sds71]

does anybody nearby know the distance between the crime scene and where the siblings were? I tried to look on a map but there were a lot os 115 sts- N.,S., etc. and terraces and it was really unclear to me.

Curious if the shooter's neighborhood a place where no one ever rings a doorbell and also curious if his neighbors say anything about him.

The streets in the area are extremely confusing to navigate, according to residents… He pulled into Lester’s driveway, apparently thinking he was on 115th Terrace. Instead, he was on 115th Street, just a block over.

One local woman told The Daily Beast that the roads are all named similarly, and that she gets her neighbors’ mail “all the time.”

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23782298/probable-cause-statement_final_20230418100906810.pdf

Gunman’s Grandson Says Ralph Yarl Shooting ‘Never Should Have Happened’

Daniel Ludwig, who described himself as “very close” with his grandfather, said he has often been in precisely the same situation as the 16-year-old.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Marysmith]

The streets in the area are extremely confusing to navigate, according to residents… He pulled into Lester’s driveway, apparently thinking he was on 115th Terrace. Instead, he was on 115th Street, just a block over.

One local woman told The Daily Beast that the roads are all named similarly, and that she gets her neighbors’ mail “all the time.”

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23782298/probable-cause-statement_final_20230418100906810.pdf

Gunman’s Grandson Says Ralph Yarl Shooting ‘Never Should Have Happened’

Daniel Ludwig, who described himself as “very close” with his grandfather, said he has often been in precisely the same situation as the 16-year-old.

www.thedailybeast.com

I’m glad to hear from the perp’s family. His grandson is brave to speak out.
I’m just so happy that Ralph survived and seems to be ok so far.

 

[evilwise]

'Castle Doctrine' is a Common Law concept that one does not need to retreat if one is at home.

All states have it. Likewise, no state gives Castle Doctrine a blank check. As @evilwise mentioned, one still needs to demonstrate that a threat existed.

But... as you implied, the Case Law surrounding Castle Doctrine can be very different between states.

This can lead to judges, prosecutors, appellate courts etc. allowing "threat" to be defined very broadly. Or, holding "threat" to be near presumed unless conclusively demonstrated otherwise.

Yes, all this. The thing that makes this case important is that I'm sure that old guy in his 80s really was scared, that he honestly perceived a threat. The thing is, in this case its probably going to be firmly established that his fear was unreasonable - but what is the criteria for what's reasonable and what's unreasonable?

So many of the laws are based on the shooters subjective feelings in the moment and that's no way for laws to be written yet never the less here we are. What does that make this shooter in this case then, incompetent? Do we punish him three times as severely because his unreasonable fear had a racial component?

There are some parallels to that Ahmaud Arberry case except in that case we had pretty darn clear video of exactly what happened that ended up being legally determined to have been the shooter and co instigating a confrontation with intent to elevate it to a level they believed would justify their shooting. I think there was some useful precedent established in that case and it will be interesting to see if some precedent gets established in this one.

 

[acutename]

this actually reminds me of something that hapened to me- about 20 yrs ago, in broad daylight, at a nature preserve board walk, I was wearing a hoodie and ahead of me there were three quite old people- a man and two woman. As I approached, the man started yelling, waving his arms, caling me a perjorative, and telling me I was not allowed on the boardwalk. I was already an older adult myself, not a minority(!), and really not an imposing figure- but somehow it did not matter to him. He had decided I was a threat and he was confronting me. It was madness- he was not armed, and I basicaly just ignored him, but this does make me wonder what Mr. Lester saw- Maybe if the guy on the boardwalk had a gun, I would have been shot too. If people are in a state of panic, they are not really seeing what is in front of them; they are living out their fears, IMO.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

This is sad, reprehensible, and didn't need to happen! Also horrible is the other recent case where the young woman was killed for pulling into the wrong driveway in NY state. These perps. need to be prosecuted in both cases.

I don't know why people are so scared that they shoot at anyone they don't recognize coming up to their house/knocking on their door. I live in a large urban area, and have had people that I don't know (and am not expecting) knocking on my door multiple times over the years. This has even rarely happened in the late evening/early morning hours. And - if you don't want to talk to someone and/or are worried that they're potential criminals, you know what you can easily do?! Just don't answer your door. Most people (whether they're just door-to-door salespeople or have the wrong house) will eventually leave - typically.

Conversely, if someone is literally trying to break your door down & you have proof of this - then, yes, you do have the right to feel threatened. But, it's 100% clear that this wasn't happening in either of these recent cases. Again, extremely sad & preventable.

 

[Cryptic]

I think he would of shot any person who he thought was trying to get in.

I think his definition of "trying to get in" was:

Trying to get in (v): If a black person is at the door, he must be "trying to get in". White people are not likely to "try to get in".

Likewise the victim stated that Lester told him: "Don't come around here" after shooting him. No mention of him "trying to get in".

 

[vls12345]

Gunman’s Grandson Says Ralph Yarl Shooting ‘Never Should Have Happened’

Daniel Ludwig, who described himself as “very close” with his grandfather, said he has often been in precisely the same situation as the 16-year-old.

www.thedailybeast.com

While the headline says, "Never Should Have Happened", the article itself quotes the grandson as saying, “It’s just crazy. I wish it didn’t happen,” which (IMO) is different.

 

[evilwise]

I think his definition of "trying to get in" was:

Trying to get in (v): If a black person is at the door, he must be "trying to get in". White people are not likely to "try to get in".

Likewise the victim stated that Lester told him: "Don't come around here" after shooting him. No mention of him "trying to get in".

I think that what happened was very different in both of these men's minds because most men's minds are simply very different at different ages.

Young man's mind, "People here are expecting me and I'm eager to see them. Someone opened the entry door so I'm going to just confidently go through the storm door and see my friend(s)"

Old man's mind, "A much bigger stronger man than me is trying to come through the last barrier between us after I opened the inside door to tell him to go away"

Of course more evidence may come out to make exactly EXACTLY what happened more clear and we'll be able to more clearly extrapolate exactly what they were thinking but that's just my problem with laws about using deadly force that hinge on subjective things like how people feel.

 

[louvillian08]

Moo...sometimes a person is treated as a hero and sometimes the person is treated as a murderer. Usually hero because person is actually trying to break into house. I do not see that this has anything to do with race....moo

The prosecutor has clearly stated there was a racial component to this case.

'Don't come around here': Documents provide details on night Ralph Yarl was shot

The Clay County Prosecutor’s Office on Monday evening filed charges against Andrew Lester in the shooting of Ralph Yarl.

www.kmbc.com

 

[nao]

The prosecutor has clearly stated there was a racial component to this case.

'Don't come around here': Documents provide details on night Ralph Yarl was shot

The Clay County Prosecutor’s Office on Monday evening filed charges against Andrew Lester in the shooting of Ralph Yarl.

www.kmbc.com

Moo..you should hear what i say when i get someone creeping on my property, i am definitely not as polite as that, i could not care less what sex or what color is out there. ..moo.. talk about judgement by the masses and how to divide a nation... prosecutor should never of said that...that is for the courts to decide when all the information comes in....moo

.

 

[tara83]

Moo..you should hear what i say when i get someone creeping on my property, i am definitely not as polite as that, i could not care less what sex or what color is out there. ..moo.. talk about judgement by the masses and how to divide a nation... prosecutor should never of said that...that is for the courts to decide when all the information comes in....moo

.

Ringing a doorbell is not creeping on someones property.

 

[nao]

Ringing the door bell on the evening..is considered creeping in my area. I know i do not know you, because you would contact me by phone in advance...all kinds of fools around here....
Moo

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Homeowner who shot Black teen Ralph Yarl pleads not guilty

Andrew Lester, the 84-year-old white man who shot Ralph Yarl, a Black teenager in Kansas City, pleaded not guilty in his first court appearance Wednesday. Yarl mistakenly went to Lester’s door looking for his younger brothers. Lester walked with a cane in court as he answered charges of...

apnews.com

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — Ralph Yarl was shot at point-blank range in the head by a white homeowner but miraculously survived the bullet to his skull, the attorney for the family of the Black teenager said.

As Yarl, 16, recovers at home, the 84-year-old owner of the Kansas City, Missouri, house where the teen mistakenly went to pick up his brothers faces his first court appearance Wednesday. Andrew Lester is charged with first-degree assault and armed criminal action. He could face life in prison if convicted. Lester does not yet have an attorney listed, according to Missouri’s online court reporting system.

“Do you all understand that this 16-year-old boy was shot at point blank range in the face?” Lee Merritt asked the crowd of about 150 supporters Tuesday at a downtown rally. “A bullet traveled from (Lester’s) gun less than 5 feet into his upper temple, penetrated his skull, and they scraped bullet fragments off his frontal lobe on Thursday. On Saturday, he was home playing with his dog.”...

This young man has such promise: smart, a talented musician, and wants to study Chemical Engineering. I hope Ralph makes a full recovery. JMO