Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #5

[leep]

The most important question now is what time did her phone really last ping if it pinged at 6:00am like the police said on CWD, how did little Pete know she was in Parkville after all the sceptism about Petes ping, someone does know what she was doing there and that's got to be the person who gave the information about EL Park and Parkville.
It's been asked numerous times where that information came from and the reply was "a source".

ETA Also I'd love to know why LE didn't release the QT video and the Dash cam video if they believed she just got in a wreak what would've been the harm releasing the last know images of her.


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[Ayashley]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before cause some pages I just skimmed but I the beginning there were people saying they had fake cops following them, well what if said fake cop was following Toni and she was attempting to get away and car slid off the road... JMO

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Have there been any facts presented yet about when her car went in the water, or are we just assuming it happened a fairly short time after her QuikTrip stop?

I'd love to hear about the tip that supposedly came in that inspired the parents and LE to do the additional sonar search. Was it from someone who witnessed something, or just a fisherman or someone else who was using their own sonar and saw something weird that they thought they should report?

When I read the info earlier from the sonar team, saying that sometimes items are easier to find after time has passed due to sand and silt accumulating, I wondered if possibly the "tip" came from the sonar team itself. They could have contacted the family and let them know they might have better results.

 

[JC40]

[h=1]Man who found Toni Anderson's car explains how it could have been missed[/h]
[FONT=&quot]KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Dennis Watters, along with his wife Tammy, are the ones responsible for finding Toni Anderson’s car in the Missouri River. Considering KCPD explained they had already searched the area as well, it leaves many wondering how police could have missed the car while on previous search efforts.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Watters told 41 Action News he’s not surprised the car was missed before. Although the professional said he found the car fairly easily, he said you have to know what to look for.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The co-owner of Team Watters Sonar said a variety of factors led to the discovery of Anderson’s car.[/FONT]

• Watters believes he has advanced sonar equipment that other agencies used by police may not have had.
• Using sonar to find cars since 2005, he believes he has a trained eye to spot such cars that may be under water. Watters says many times a submerged car will only develop a ‘flash’ when picked up by sonar. Since it won’t look like a car on the image, you have to know what to look for.
• Watters says cars that have recently been submerged are much harder for sonar to discover. The fact Anderson’s car likely sat underwater for several weeks collecting dirt and sand helped Watters pick up a slightly better image.

[FONT=&quot]"When it's brand new and it's all slick and smooth, the sound will hit that car and instead of returning and showing me a perfect car, it will often just give me a weird looking flash,” said Watters.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Watters said he reached out to Brian Anderson, Toni’s father, after he saw the case was turning cold. He notified KCPD they would be searching the Parkville area, which started Wednesday. He said they discovered Anderson’s car – along with a black SUV – by 4:30-5:00 that evening. That’s when they called KCPD who then came out to assist. They had to wait until Friday morning to bring in experienced divers to retrieve the vehicles. It wasn’t until after they could clear off much of the sand when they confirmed the car was Anderson’s, matching her plates.

Vt

http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news...ns-car-explains-how-it-could-have-been-missed[/FONT]

 

[MzOpinion8d]

[h=1]
[FONT=&quot]Watters said he reached out to Brian Anderson, Toni’s father, after he saw the case was turning cold. He notified KCPD they would be searching the Parkville area, which started Wednesday. He said they discovered Anderson’s car – along with a black SUV – by 4:30-5:00 that evening. That’s when they called KCPD who then came out to assist. They had to wait until Friday morning to bring in experienced divers to retrieve the vehicles. It wasn’t until after they could clear off much of the sand when they confirmed the car was Anderson’s, matching her plates.

Vt

http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news...ns-car-explains-how-it-could-have-been-missed[/FONT]

So it does seem like this was probably the "tip" received by Toni's family.

 

[windrower]

I was just at the top of that ramp today. Perfect place to roll a car into a giant river without being seen.

I wondered if Toni's car had "help" getting into the river, but aside from the trunk lid being somewhat mangled (which could be from getting the car out of the river, since the car was upside down), there doesn't appear to be much damage to the rear end of her car. Agree with the poster above that a rollover is unlikely given the condition of the car (outside mirror still intact, etc.) so I don't think she was hit from the side and pushed over the embankment.

From several cases here on WS, we know people have accidentally driven into rivers, lakes, reservoirs, estuaries, etc., via boat ramps and concrete waterways they have mistaken for a road, not to mention those drivers who end up in the water via some other kind of accident.

I'll try to find the WS link to the case of the lady in Texas mentioned upthread who went missing on her way to work early in the morning, only to be found later to have gone off the road into a lake\pond, because where she went into the water was not easily recognizable as such. Iirc, she went through\over a fence and across bit of grassy area before hitting the water, but there weren't tracks, etc. I do not recall how she was finally found.

 

[Momoffourboys]

PS Sr. Was posting in one of the FB groups last night and (specifically) stated what she was doing that night. (Not sure if I can give specifics).

If what he says is true, not hard to figure out that she was meeting someone/s and was not there for any other reason.

 

[alexwood]

I know some don't like the police corruption angle at all, and for me, it's just simply about the idea that I can't exclude it until there are explanations. I feel like I now have more questions for LE than I did before.

For example, this is now the first time we have heard that the officer followed Toni from the pump. This was not something we definitively knew before. I see people citing Occam's razor etc. But I'm just going to point to any number of police corruption cases. Did those individuals take a risk? People who think they can get away with it, take risks.

Instead of asking me about why or citing Occam's razor, maybe just ask Daniel Holtzclaw :
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/us/okl...pe-sentencing/

I could go further, not sure we can discuss this here, but all I'm gonna say is that my mind doesn't exclude someone until I actually see something that excludes them. I was bothered by the idea that "vetting" was the reason for exclusion and not actual footage that proves his whereabouts at the time of the last ping. Saying someone drove the other direction at whatever time is distinctly different than accounting for their time one hour later. It's not high probability, but I don't think it's implausible. But after that video, I think it's more probable than I was thinking before. Why? Because they took a baby step to try and point away from it, not just flat out prove it. I have questions like - did he call in the pullover? Simple question, right? But if he did that, certainly there'd be information about if he ran the plate, etc. Right?

So... if he didn't call it in, or run the plate. Doesn't that tell us that he likely knew her? At that point does the probability go up or down regarding LE corruption? I personally think if this officer knew her well enough that he didn't call in her plates as they usually do, then you start to ask more questions. In this case, we were actually initially told there was no pullover and that's not something we should forget.

So using Occam's razor before you have gotten the simplest of details seems to be an abuse of the ole razor imo.

:goodpost:

Agreed MaxManning, excellent post.

IOW, Occam's razor needs a sharper blade.

 

[BigRedTomato]

Something I posted yesterday on SM.

I've thought an accident was a 10% chance of having occurred or less. I don't think the police or Pete her boyfriend are involved. Nor is it likely a "wreck". Foul play stands at around 30% where Toni encounters a perpetrator of some kind or some other assailant. Examinations should be able to help make those determinations.

I attribute fatigue and other possible contributors as factors involved. It looks as though the tires on the car are significantly worn. A Ford Focus weighs 3000 lbs. These factored in along with everything else and wind speeds around 10-15 mph, her car could have very possibly began sliding into the river down the decline without her being able to stop it. It was said to not be icy as forecast but that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't slick in that area.

I've experienced similar events as this. When some momentum gets going, it's terribly difficult to gain much if any control.

Prayers for all of Toni's friends and family.

[FONT=&amp]"I'm thinking it's the boat ramp where the car enters. Airbags might not have deployed because speed and force did not exact sufficient impact. Possibly it's just slick enough there that morning where the vehicle cannot be regained control of. She's driven to the river for some personal time perhaps. At some point arrives at the ramp to hang out. That it's cold that morning, Toni remains in her car. At some juncture sliding occurs that's beyond being countered. The result is being taken into the current in which the car floats for awhile as it's descending. The car comes to a rest past the other recovered vehicle possibly even coming into contact with it. Damage can mostly be attributed to what goes on in the river and what was necessary for recovery of it. And then too, someone could have intentionally put it in there...there's so many questions that we don't have answers to. I'd be examining the entire length of the boat ramp and alongside it for more clues."[/FONT]

 

[Gardenista]

[h=1]Man who found Toni Anderson's car explains how it could have been missed[/h]
[FONT="]KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Dennis Watters, along with his wife Tammy, are the ones responsible for finding Toni Anderson’s car in the Missouri River. Considering KCPD explained they had already searched the area as well, it leaves many wondering how police could have missed the car while on previous search efforts.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#1A1A1A][FONT="]Watters told 41 Action News he’s not surprised the car was missed before. Although the professional said he found the car fairly easily, he said you have to know what to look for.

[/FONT]
[FONT="]The co-owner of Team Watters Sonar said a variety of factors led to the discovery of Anderson’s car.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[LIST]
[*]Watters believes he has advanced sonar equipment that other agencies used by police may not have had.
[*]Using sonar to find cars since 2005, he believes he has a trained eye to spot such cars that may be under water. Watters says many times a submerged car will only develop a ‘flash’ when picked up by sonar. Since it won’t look like a car on the image, you have to know what to look for.
[*][B]Watters says cars that have recently been submerged are much harder for sonar to discover. The fact Anderson’s car likely sat underwater for several weeks collecting dirt and sand helped Watters pick up a slightly better image.[/B]
[/LIST]
[COLOR=#1A1A1A][FONT="]"When it's brand new and it's all slick and smooth, the sound will hit that car and instead of returning and showing me a perfect car, it will often just give me a weird looking flash,” said Watters.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Watters said he reached out to Brian Anderson, Toni’s father, after he saw the case was turning cold. He notified KCPD they would be searching the Parkville area, which started Wednesday. He said they discovered Anderson’s car – along with a black SUV – by 4:30-5:00 that evening. That’s when they called KCPD who then came out to assist. They had to wait until Friday morning to bring in experienced divers to retrieve the vehicles. It wasn’t until after they could clear off much of the sand when they confirmed the car was Anderson’s, matching her plates.

Vt

http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news...ns-car-explains-how-it-could-have-been-missed[/FONT]

Not buying it. If they would have searched in that area, they would have found the SUV

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Thank you for posting these. I am noticing again that the drivers side mirror is intact. I think that it would be impossible for a roll over and still be intact.


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Crash I had, I went driver's side down along a verge and the side mirror remained intact...

 

[MaxManning]

Something I posted yesterday on SM.

I've thought an accident was a 10% chance of having occurred or less. I don't think the police or Pete her boyfriend are involved. Nor is it likely a "wreck". Foul play stands at around 30% where Toni encounters a perpetrator of some kind or some other assailant. Examinations should be able to help make those determinations.

I attribute fatigue and other possible contributors as factors involved. It looks as though the tires on the car are significantly worn. A Ford Focus weighs 3000 lbs. These factored in along with everything else and wind speeds around 10-15 mph, her car could have very possibly began sliding into the river down the decline without her being able to stop it. It was said to not be icy as forecast but that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't slick in that area.

I've experienced similar events as this. When some momentum gets going, it's terribly difficult to gain much if any control.

Prayers for all of Toni's friends and family.

[FONT=&amp]"I'm thinking it's the boat ramp where the car enters. Airbags might not have deployed because speed and force did not exact sufficient impact. Possibly it's just slick enough there that morning where the vehicle cannot be regained control of. She's driven to the river for some personal time perhaps. At some point arrives at the ramp to hang out. That it's cold that morning, Toni remains in her car. At some juncture sliding occurs that's beyond being countered. The result is being taken into the current in which the car floats for awhile as it's descending. The car comes to a rest past the other recovered vehicle possibly even coming into contact with it. Damage can mostly be attributed to what goes on in the river and what was necessary for recovery of it. And then too, someone could have intentionally put it in there...there's so many questions that we don't have answers to. I'd be examining the entire length of the boat ramp and alongside it for more clues."[/FONT]

It's also important to note that this main st road that runs along the river bank is inside the park, so it's likely not salted at all. I have read others talk about how the roads were in good shape even with the freezing rain and icy road conditions that were forecasted. But since this road was in a park, I would be extremely surprised if the road was salted and therefore potentially far worse than any road she was on before entering the park. People don't think about this much when driving, and if she had no traction problems on the 9 corridor, she could go into the park with expectations being she'd have the same grip.

But, even with all this said, I still find it hard to exclude foul play as I have trouble understanding why she was there at all. Also, find it hard to believe she reached a high speed unless... she was being chased. Not saying it's impossible for her to speed back to that dog park at 5:30am for no real good reason, but it's certainly something to question.

healthy skepticism

It could simply be an accident and many questions will just never be answered, I get it. But lets not just assume that the valid questions can't be answered and at least ask them. right?

 

[BamiesFan]

Well if they find ligature marks or GSWs the accident discussion will stop. It seems like foul play. Of course the guy she was supposed to meet is cooperating with police. If he is the perp would he say.. i aint talkin?

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

If this was an accident with Toni being a lifegaurd surely she would of been able to get out of the car and swim to safety, normally been a bad swimmer is what keeps people in the car as it goes down, but with her skill set I'd put money on her surviving this IF she went in conscious that is.

It's not as easy to get out of a car in water as you might think, and nothing to do with whether the person is a good swimmer or not. It's reckoned you have maybe a minute and during that time the best case scenario is that you instantly have your wits about you, the window is rolled down and you weren't wearing a seatbelt but didn't go through the windscreen.

Now imagine you're shocked/stunned from the impact (assuming conscious); the window is rolled up; your seatbelt is done up. The car, if front-engined, is going to be tipping nose-first down into the water. You have to get your head together, get the window down (assuming the electrics work or it's manual), get out of your seatbelt, pull yourself out through the window. Some say you have to wait for the car to sink so the pressure equalises and you can open the door, but more recently I've seen that suggested as a last resort - you'd have to hold your breath for quite a while and that may not be easy if you're shocked or panicking.

And that's all assuming the car goes in right side up...

 

[AceDetective]

Man who found Toni Anderson's car explains how it could have been missed


[FONT=&amp]KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Dennis Watters, along with his wife Tammy, are the ones responsible for finding Toni Anderson’s car in the Missouri River. Considering KCPD explained they had already searched the area as well, it leaves many wondering how police could have missed the car while on previous search efforts.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Watters told 41 Action News he’s not surprised the car was missed before. Although the professional said he found the car fairly easily, he said you have to know what to look for.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]The co-owner of Team Watters Sonar said a variety of factors led to the discovery of Anderson’s car.[/FONT]

• Watters believes he has advanced sonar equipment that other agencies used by police may not have had.
• Using sonar to find cars since 2005, he believes he has a trained eye to spot such cars that may be under water. Watters says many times a submerged car will only develop a ‘flash’ when picked up by sonar. Since it won’t look like a car on the image, you have to know what to look for.
• Watters says cars that have recently been submerged are much harder for sonar to discover. The fact Anderson’s car likely sat underwater for several weeks collecting dirt and sand helped Watters pick up a slightly better image.

[FONT=&amp]"When it's brand new and it's all slick and smooth, the sound will hit that car and instead of returning and showing me a perfect car, it will often just give me a weird looking flash,” said Watters.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Watters said he reached out to Brian Anderson, Toni’s father, after he saw the case was turning cold. He notified KCPD they would be searching the Parkville area, which started Wednesday. He said they discovered Anderson’s car – along with a black SUV – by 4:30-5:00 that evening. That’s when they called KCPD who then came out to assist. They had to wait until Friday morning to bring in experienced divers to retrieve the vehicles. It wasn’t until after they could clear off much of the sand when they confirmed the car was Anderson’s, matching her plates.

Vt

http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news...ns-car-explains-how-it-could-have-been-missed[/FONT]

So this makes perfect sense, then. The police did search the area but weren't able to locate the vehicle. It happens. Then an expert was brought in and was able to find it. So it is not that the police didn't try to find her in the most obvious spot in all of Parkville, they just missed the vehicle due to a lack of advanced equipment and expertise.

 

[thekarmabus]

Well if they find ligature marks or GSWs the accident discussion will stop. It seems like foul play. Of course the guy she was supposed to meet is cooperating with police. If he is the perp would he say.. i aint talkin?

With the body being submerged for that length of time it's highly unlikely anything will come out of the forensics unless there is a bullet hole or broken bones. However I would believe that the damage to the car would be analyzed and answered as to how it was placed there. High speed flip, driven in from ramp etc...

I am thinking a formal ID will be reported tomorrow.


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[BigRedTomato]

It's also important to note that this main st road that runs along the river bank is inside the park, so it's likely not salted at all. I have read others talk about how the roads were in good shape even with the freezing rain and icy road conditions that were forecasted. But since this road was in a park, I would be extremely surprised if the road was salted and therefore potentially far worse than any road she was on before entering the park. People don't think about this much when driving, and if she had no traction problems on the 9 corridor, she could go into the park with expectations being she'd have the same grip.

But, even with all this said, I still find it hard to exclude foul play as I have trouble understanding why she was there at all. Also, find it hard to believe she reached a high speed unless... she was being chased. Not saying it's impossible for her to speed back to that dog park at 5:30am for no real good reason, but it's certainly something to question.

healthy skepticism

It could simply be an accident and many questions will just never be answered, I get it. But lets not just assume that the valid questions can't be answered and at least ask them. right?

Your points are well taken. Those questions remain that deserve answers to. Her actions do not match what she was conveying to others about what her intentions were. That she was up there in that park and at that hour is odd. I'm wondering IF her medications might have played a part in her decisions.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

So this makes perfect sense, then. The police did search the area but weren't able to locate the vehicle. It happens. Then an expert was brought in and was able to find it. So it is not that the police didn't try to find her in the most obvious spot in all of Parkville, they just missed the vehicle due to a lack of advanced equipment and expertise.

Unfortunately that's all too common a problem. Public service isn't a popular thing to resource, so they'll always be behind the curve.

 

[MaxManning]

I've spent some time in google maps this morning and I'm now convinced that it's not probable that Toni ends up on that long road to the north that leads to the boat ramp. That road appears to be for someone towing a boat to the boat ramp, and it doesn't appear to be paved, but is actually gravel. So for her to just decide to make the right turn onto that gravel road would have most likely been a very deliberate one imo.

Possibly she was looking for a place to turn around some might say? But in street view she would have hand numerous places to simply do that because there was parking spaces before she would ever see that gravel road.

Now there is a pathway to that gravel road just after going over a small creek, but if you look in streetview it doesn't even look like a road, but a path. The map view makes you believe it's an actual road, but I think it's highly improbable she'd even see that if she hadn't been there before. So again, I think it'd be highly deliberate if she chose that route.

In a nutshell due to all these details, I find it harder to believe she ends up on that gravel road leading ultimately to the boat ramp by accident such as in a situation where she's lost and looking for a way to turn around. I think now it's more probable that she would have went along shore to the dog park. In that case, the boat ramp would make no sense to accidentally go off, because she'd have to swing a hard left.

So... my conclusion is that if she didn't go down that slope via losing control on main street, I think it's highly improbable this is an accident of going off the boat ramp. Not impossible, but just highly improbable.

The slope seems to be the most likely route for an accident.

 

[Niner]

Hey - just a few comments and questions...

Try and and watch it a few times. Maybe you or any of us will see something more. I don't believe the mystery car's brake lights come on. The second car (the cop) does apply the brakes (clearly) as she pulls away out of the frame. There are three lanes and a shoulder. The mystery car could have been in a different lane, explaining why his brakes didn't apply.

Okay - I'm not seeing things that you all are. Is there anyone here that can take "stills" of this video and maybe circle each car (different colors) and maybe I can figure out what you all are seeing!

TIA! :wave:

Notice you all talking about the phone being connected to the network until 9:30pm that night. Could it be the phone fell out of her car? Say if she went down that steep incline, it fell out. I'm hoping they will at least search the rocky coast line there and near other accessable entries into the water, or at least look for tire tracks....

There is also a possibility that neither the car nor the phone went in the river before 9:30 p.m.

True! But then what the heck was she doing for 17 hours and not being "caught" on any CCTV??

StPauliGirlK and VictoriaH
and to you both

:welcome6: to Websleuths!

:greetings:


from the article (link on post #751 by Gardenista)
FOX 4’s crews at the scene saw the Ford Focus get towed, and it was totaled with the windows shattered and the front end completely smashed in.

I tried to stop the video, but when I do a scroll pops up on the both and can't get a screen shot of the front end. It really only looks "smashed" on the driver's side portion.

In this video, the reporters says Toni's friends had searched the area in the past because that's where a psychic told them her body would be found

I noticed she mentioned the boy friend searched this part of the river - wonder how he did that? Wade in?? :dunno: