Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #6

[MaxManning]

What I'm thinking is that on her iCloud it would be a recently touched file, which would be the things you would look at most closely. It would be impossible to miss. Assuming her backup was working and didn't exclude the Pokemon Go files.

Yes, they could have known before getting her iCloud, too.

On the topic of a backup, that should save any local document data for a given run of pokemon go, so as you were saying that might have timestamps for modification. But that document data is usually a cache of some sort that will be saved on the device and a backup will store that data. Typically what is in a cache is dynamic content such as images or even maps. An example is each pokestop has an image depicting the physical location. The app files don't have all those images included, instead they get downloaded based on where you are. If you are playing in KC, you get all the images pertinent to that area. Otherwise the app would need to have all those images for the whole world and it'd be a massive app file. Thats why I say, those files might not even have modification dates, because if she plays all the time in KC... those files would have been downloaded on her first time playing in KC and have that timestamp.

But my overall point is that if she didn't do a backup since Dec, you won't have answered the question you want to answer.

 

[AceDetective]

The pokemon go files are irrelevant because they are just the app files, not data. The files will show the install datestamp. The game doesn't store any data in iCloud, it uses the google account as credentials for the pokemon go servers. iCloud is irrelevant. If you have pokemon go installed, you can see what I mean. Go into icloud storage and you'll see it doesn't use iCloud at all for data storage.

There definitely is, or at least was, a data cache. Apple doesn't let you see it, do they? And is the iCloud not usually just an image of the phone? Maybe if I have more time later I'll look into it...

 

[AceDetective]

[...]

But my overall point is that if she didn't do a backup since Dec, you won't have answered the question you want to answer.

Agreed. iCloud would not include data for Jan 15, so would certainly not be a help. They would have to access her account for the time/location of the last pokemon. Definitely.

I withdraw my other claims about iCloud. I thought it would probably show she was a recent player, but it might have only shown that she was a player. I don't want to spend too much time on it, but I did find this:

"iCloud includes Backup, which automatically backs up a user’s iOS device daily over Wi-Fi. Everything in your app’s home directory is backed up, with the exception of the application bundle itself, the caches directory, and temp directory."

That's weird because there are people on the web talking about Pokemon Go taking up too much space in their iCloud, etc. So what gets stored, then?

 

[MaxManning]

There definitely is, or at least was, a data cache. Apple doesn't let you see it, do they? And is the iCloud not usually just an image of the phone? Maybe if I have more time later I'll look into it...

I am an iOS developer, so I have a decent understanding of this.

The thing about caches, is that they are not protected by iOS and will not get backed up. Apple has guidelines about this, and in general a cache is something you should assume could be deleted at any time, so not a good place for user data. iOS has the right to delete a cache and repurpose for another app you run that needs storage. Some apps will even delete their own cache when the app is updated for example.

There are flags you can set in code for excluding/including certain data in a backup. So it really comes down to what pokemon go does, but I suspect they do not, because it'd be a redundancy. Given that they have their own game servers, they are their own cloud, so that's one reason why they don't use the iCloud. Plus they'll not want to be reliant on iCloud, since you can log into the game on an iOS or Android device. Also, they store user data on the fly, as every action you make in the game gets sent to the server, processed, and then returns the result to the client app to update the game on your device. So the server database is always the most up to date, and the client app is just reflecting that.

iCloud is not an image of the phone, more of an image of data specified as cloud data. An app has to support iCloud storage to store data there, and not all apps support it, pokemon go does not. Backup data also has to be supported by the app. There are lots of apps that don't back their data up when you do a itunes backup.


Here's some info from a user perspective :

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2629037?start=0

It's really quite common for 3rd party apps to not include data in a backup. The wording in Apples description of backups is misleading, as it seems to say apps **will** save data, rather than they **can** if they choose to.

 

[MaxManning]

That's weird because there are people on the web talking about Pokemon Go taking up too much space in their iCloud, etc. So what gets stored, then?

I'll see if I can determine that. It might be map data. That can be considered user data, because it's specific to the user's geographic area, ie it downloads KC maps. So if you travel alot while playing pokemon go, it might use more cloud data than someone who plays in a small area.


On my iPhone, it shows no iCloud data at all. Maybe it saved some data to the iCloud closer to launch. I'm guessing with map data.

 

[KMD_KC]

If this was an accident or related to Pokémon Go gone wrong why would LE be so silent and refuse to release info. If this was the case they would have released it all weeks ago.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If this was an accident or related to Pokémon Go gone wrong why would LE be so silent and refuse to release info. If this was the case they would have released it all weeks ago.

Agreed. But its less morbid than the possible sex trafficking that we mentioned 1000 times here before she was found.

So I don't mind that some would like to mull on the Pokemon possibility.

Maybe she was passing time until her dealer woke up. Idk

 

[MaxManning]

That's weird because there are people on the web talking about Pokemon Go taking up too much space in their iCloud, etc. So what gets stored, then?

Ok, now I see the disconnect.

iCloud backup is an option within iCloud, that allows you to backup that document data that I was telling you about. That means whoever was talking about it taking up too much space, wasn't backing up iCloud data -- but ALL the document data for their apps.

So that person was backing up the caches I was talking about. That's different than an iTunes Backup and it's not iTunes syncing. A iCloud Backup will backup all document data regardless of those flags I spoke of. So, if Toni had this enabled, she'd have had her cache backed up. But the problem with that, is that the cache could be months old in terms of timestamp. When you download content to put in a cache the whole idea is that you are gonna have it around so you don't have to download it each time someone plays, therefore speeding up load times and you are loading from the cache and not internet. Just like timestamps of things in your browser cache don't change each time they get used.

If Toni had iCloud backup enabled, it'd be saving her cache data.

I know it's confusing, but you can indeed force iCloud to do a backup of all your document data regardless of those flags. But that is different than iCloud's primary functionality which is real time storage/syncing of data across multiple devices.

iCloud backups occur when your phone is plugged in, locked, and connected to wifi.

iCloud syncing is about syncing all your devices (iphone, iPad, Mac) with the same data in real time-- an app has to support iCloud to utilize this functionality. It means that if you take a photo with your phone, your macbook will sync automatically and download that photo.

iCloud backups don't require iCloud support by the apps. It's just making a backup copy of all the app data and storing it in the iCloud.

Bottom line is that you are correct, it's not possible she'd have the data regarding that night in her iCloud data or an iCloud backup.

 

[MaxManning]

If this was an accident or related to Pokémon Go gone wrong why would LE be so silent and refuse to release info. If this was the case they would have released it all weeks ago.

Or they are just incompetent and don't know much of anything, and revealing everything makes them look like f----ups

It's not like there isn't a history of the same PD failing to even investigate cases at all. They might simply just wait till less eyes/ears are following the case, to reveal their missteps.

"well... it's a funny thing about the dashcam..."

 

[Pistolerpete247]

Why would Toni be playing Pokemon go in January at 0430, if she last played the game in August of 2016?

 

[n_6CC]

From what the Mom said I would go with the body was badly decomposed.
If the body was in good shape LE would have said they suspected foul play. The parents wouldn't be so sure it was an accident. The parents know more than they're telling the public. I'm just almost certain this will be decided as an accident and LE has the proof that will satisfy most.

Her mother was not even there when the vehicle was retrieved. Why would LE suspect foul play if the body was in good shape ? I'm not understanding your post.


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[n_6CC]

Well, my reporter seems to have gone awol, so I phoned KCPD and gave them the Pokemon Go theory. Caldwell was not there so I gave it to another officer. It was the missing person department, and they still have the case.

What I find interesting is that a number of people in various places are wondering how LE could have called this an accident so quickly. What does LE know that we don't know? I have a feeling I know what they know. But I reported it anyway.

(In theory, after getting her iCloud, they would have known if she had played Pokemon Go recently. But not on Jan 15, however.)

So, in thinking of your original ideas, it came to me that her parents response would be very logical if that were the circumstance. Can't see it, but it would indeed explain her parents response. Completely.


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[policyoftruth501]

Or they are just incompetent and don't know much of anything, and revealing everything makes them look like f----ups

It's not like there isn't a history of the same PD failing to even investigate cases at all. They might simply just wait till less eyes/ears are following the case, to reveal their missteps.

"well... it's a funny thing about the dashcam..."

I know that as recently as a year and a half ago a detective with the Little Rock PD told the family of Ebby Steppach (a missing teen in LR) that LRPD doesn't have an IT forensics department or even a single person on staff. When the family offered to pay for outside help they were allowed to do that - but the family paid the IT expert themselves. And then LRPD slammed the door shut on that help before they even got to any real information.

Turns out the original detective on Ebby's case was a complete louse who literally did no real work on the case at all - he did more damage than he actually helped (and got severely demoted for his lack of work). So LRPD might actually have IT forensics personnel on staff, but if they really don't as the initial Ebby Steppach detective claimed then it might not be uncommon for large police departments to employ people with IT expertise. I found this a bit odd with amount of detective work that involves IT, as well as all the work LE does to track down and arrest online predators.


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[DexterMorgan]

I know that as recently as a year and a half ago a detective with the Little Rock PD told the family of Ebby Steppach (a missing teen in LR) that LRPD doesn't have an IT forensics department or even a single person on staff. When the family offered to pay for outside help they were allowed to do that - but the family paid the IT expert themselves. And then LRPD slammed the door shut on that help before they even got to any real information.

Turns out the original detective on Ebby's case was a complete louse who literally did no real work on the case at all - he did more damage than he actually helped (and got severely demoted for his lack of work). So LRPD might actually have IT forensics personnel on staff, but if they really don't as the initial Ebby Steppach detective claimed then it might not be uncommon for large police departments to employ people with IT expertise. I found this a bit odd with amount of detective work that involves IT, as well as all the work LE does to track down and arrest online predators.


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I thought detectives would have the fbi do i.t forensics if they couldn't do it themselves.

 

[MaxManning]

Why would Toni be playing Pokemon go in January at 0430, if she last played the game in August of 2016?

Pete, how do you know that she last played the game in august of 2016?

We all, don't have much doubt for this, however it would be good to know this is factual and not just asking pete jr or a friend "hey, when did Toni stop playing pokemon go?"

Any answer to that question is just an assumption. A pretty decent one, so indeed we all understand with why it could be accepted, same as someone saying she was going to meet someone at shady lady... yet, she didn't seem to be heading there.

We'd hope that rather it would be based on actually verifying that via her email and password. If police or your son are able to log into her pokemon go acct, they can verify that this was the case with no need for assumption. If you do that, you can factually see the last pokemon she caught and where.

So, that's why we have the question for you and/or LE, as to how you have determined when she last played pokemon go.


The whole reason we are even asking the question about pokemon go is because you have asked us why she would drive around the pump several times?

Someone gave you maybe the #1 reason we could think of for that odd kind of behavior. Because people do this kind of thing while playing pokemon go all the time. So we are just asking how it was excluded?


So the questions are :

How do you know/believe she drove around the pumps several times?
How do you know Toni stopped playing pokemon go in august 2016?


Hopefully we can get more answers, and exclude pokemon go. I can certainly appreciate that it might be excluded by yourself or police in a definitive way, but we've not seen anyone specify how they know it definitively.

 

[MaxManning]

If this was an accident or related to Pokémon Go gone wrong why would LE be so silent and refuse to release info. If this was the case they would have released it all weeks ago.

I wouldn't expect that if it was the case, they'd be hiding it. But I can see where the question gets asked whether she plays anymore and 5 people saying she stopped in August 2016, might be enough to exclude it. Yet is it really excluded based on anything other than an assumption?

It's like believing that Toni was actually heading to Shady Lady. You can accept someone telling you that, and do searches there, but we now know she wasn't heading there. Looking at her pokemon account, would make it factual if she was playing or not.

Someone wouldn't know the moment I decided I was going to play pokemon go again either. If I played it today and didn't make a big deal of it, who would know? My account would know... but anyone around me, would tell you, he stopped playing in Sept 2016.

Why do I question the thoroughness of their investigation?

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article101962597.html

For years, Kansas City police detectives failed to properly investigate some rapes, serious abuse and other crimes against the city’s children. And in many instances, detectives did no work at all, internal police department memos recently obtained by The Star reveal.

The department’s own memos describe 148 “severely mishandled” cases, “gross negligence,” “incompetence” and evidence of attempts to “cover up.”

So it's not about whether I believe they'd hide it if they knew, it's about whether I trust they verified it all or took someone's assumptions as facts? Big difference.

 

[The real reason]

Max, if you did your research you would see that involved a specific section, the crimes against children section specifically. That section was dismantled and rebuilt with all new personnel and oversight. To equate every investigation to that section is ignorant. The crimes against children section did not investigate Toni's disappearance.

 

[MaxManning]

Max, if you did your research you would see that involved a specific section, the crimes against children section specifically. That section was dismantled and rebuilt with all new personnel and oversight. To equate every investigation to that section is ignorant. The crimes against children section did not investigate Toni's disappearance.

It's the same PD. So only one unit in a PD could potentially have these issues? The issues went on for years, before uncovered. Did new personnel and oversight work? Transparency allows us to evaluate that.

This is the same missing person's unit that didn't tell the mother of janina vasquez she made a 911 call till months later after her body was found.

Healthy Skepticism. That's why we have transparency laws. It's not because we assume nothing can be done improperly.

No one would have any skepticism if there hadn't been sketchiness from the word go on this case.

 

[Capstan07]

I didn't know that the official autopsy report (pending toxicology) had been released. When did that happen?

You did not read that the way I meant to say it. My fault. Sloppy writing.

What I was saying is the medical examiner initially found no evidence of foul play. That has been released and stated. The official report IS pending toxicology results.

Hope that states it better.


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[BamiesFan]

The boat ramp is barely one lane wide and it is corrugated, not to mention you need to take a hairpin left turn to access it. I think it is a stretch to mistake it for normal roadway, unless you were really impaired.