Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #7

[perfectingpink]

I still haven't had even one response to my suggestion that if the engine in TA's Ford Focus was running under water it would have hydrolock damage. If it has no hydrolock damage the engine wasn't running when it went submerged. If she was actively trying to back the car up the ramp ( shift lever in R posistion as reported by Toni's mom) the engine would have been running. If the engine was running it sucked in water.

This needs to be checked out. The spark plugs need to be removed from the engine first. ( if the sprak plugs are not removed first, the hydrolock damage could be caused by this "test") , so the engine can freely turn over with a jump start. If the starter can turn the engine over, there is no hydrolock damage.

Water does not compress like air does. If an engine sucks in water while running, it will bend internal parts making the engine seize.

No hydrolock=no accident IMO

Edit

With the engine not running in a car with an automatic transmission, any shift position besides "P" will allow the car to roll freely. Once the park pawl is disengaged, the vehicle is free wheeling. FYI

I brought your post up to my husband and he wholeheartedly agrees this is the very thing that needs to be checked. Now, I guess if she and her car were put in the river, it could be done with the engine running however, it would not be likely she accidentally rolled into the river with the car off. (Especially since the narrative is she slid down the ramp doing a u-turn.)

 

[heartgoesout]

So how to make sure her car is checked out thoroughly by the right people???

 

[shifferbrainz]

I would offer my time and labor if it would help. In fact I will be traveling to KC this weekend.

 

[BaileyC]

So how to make sure her car is checked out thoroughly by the right people???

Someone needs to get/hire an Atty and have the Atty hire a Private Investigator to start working on this case.
https://www.pinow.com/investigations

 

[Hiandmighty]

Shiffer, i noticed your comment a while back and thought it was a good idea. I didn't know what to say about it. Maybe they checked already?

 

[shifferbrainz]

Shiffer, i noticed your comment a while back and thought it was a good idea. I didn't know what to say about it. Maybe they checked already?

I doubt it. In fact I bet they already tried to start the car. KCPD doesn't know what to do with evidence, or even how to look for it, it would seem.

Wouldn't it be nice to be spoon fed for existence? IMO the local newspaper there also has learned this survival technique.

2 bodies found by people looking for someone else? 2 more found by a mushroom hunter? Burned car with body found from phone tip ( still nothing on this one) -just what do they find on their own? seriously?

 

[OnTheCase101]

I doubt it. In fact I bet they already tried to start the car. KCPD doesn't know what to do with evidence, or even how to look for it, it would seem.


Wouldn't it be nice to be spoon fed for existence? IMO the local newspaper there also has learned this survival technique.

2 bodies found by people looking for someone else? 2 more found by a mushroom hunter? Burned car with body found from phone tip ( still nothing on this one) -just what do they find on their own? seriously?

You are 100% on-point. Maybe if kc area cops stopped assuming women just "decide" to go missing, they'd look a bit harder and actually find them.



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[OnTheCase101]

Someone needs to get/hire an Atty and have the Atty hire a Private Investigator to start working on this case.
https://www.pinow.com/investigations

That would unfortunately require the Andersons' participation.


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[Dr.Strangelove]

I doubt it. In fact I bet they already tried to start the car. KCPD doesn't know what to do with evidence, or even how to look for it, it would seem.

Wouldn't it be nice to be spoon fed for existence? IMO the local newspaper there also has learned this survival technique.

2 bodies found by people looking for someone else? 2 more found by a mushroom hunter? Burned car with body found from phone tip ( still nothing on this one) -just what do they find on their own? seriously?

With all due respect, I think the last bit is a little unfair. You cant expect LE to be constantly looking everywhere for bodies, if I'm not mistaken most bodies are found by others. (Not refering to Toni's case but the others mentioned, and the comment of LE not doing anything on their own in relation to finding bodies) IMO

 

[shifferbrainz]

If the insurance claim has been paid ( assumption she had a loan on car) the car would be the property of the insurance company now, and I am sure they would not mind this being investigated if approached in the right manner. Just an idea thrown out.

 

[shifferbrainz]

With all due respect, I think the last bit is a little unfair. You cant expect LE to be constantly looking everywhere for bodies, if I'm not mistaken most bodies are found by others. (Not refering to Toni's case but the others mentioned, and the comment of LE not doing anything on their own in relation to finding bodies) IMO

I have my opinion, going all the way back to the Tammie Cochran case, which involves close acquaintances of mine. I cannot discuss what I know there but will via PM

 

[Hiandmighty]

I read the book by Mary forgetherlastname, the medical examiner at LSU. Yes, most bodies are found by people who happened by them.

 

[AceDetective]

re: hydrolock damage

Several of us have quoted the officer stating that it is standard procedure to investigate this as a homicide.

I fully expect they will proceed with due diligence. Toni's cell phone and car electronics will be processed to retrieve data, if possible. They will inspect the engine for hydrolock damage. They will do a full autopsy and toxicology.

The hydrolock idea is a good one. However, for there to be hydrolock damage the engine typically has to be running off idle. So it's one of those things where if there is hydrolock damage, that would be a good indicator that her engine was running above idle. But if there is no damage, then it is not all that helpful, because maybe by the time her car got to the point where the engine sucked in water, the engine had already gone to idle. Don't forget the car floats for a period of time before it sinks. How long for water to reach the air intake for the engine? Probably fairly quick, but easily enough time for the engine to go to idle.

I am really hoping that Toni driving into the water triggered an event on the car's data recorder. Either when she hit the ramp or when she hit the water. That would provide some really good data. If no event was triggered, I'm not sure what data they might get, if any.

 

[Hiandmighty]

If the insurance claim has been paid ( assumption she had a loan on car) the car would be the property of the insurance company now, and I am sure they would not mind this being investigated if approached in the right manner. Just an idea thrown out.

I doubt the car would be there. The investigation isn't closed.

 

[shifferbrainz]

re: hydrolock damage

Several of us have quoted the officer stating that it is standard procedure to investigate this as a homicide.

I fully expect they will proceed with due diligence. Toni's cell phone and car electronics will be processed to retrieve data, if possible. They will inspect the engine for hydrolock damage. They will do a full autopsy and toxicology.

The hydrolock idea is a good one. However, for there to be hydrolock damage the engine typically has to be running off idle. So it's one of those things where if there is hydrolock damage, that would be a good indicator that her engine was running above idle. But if there is no damage, then it is not all that helpful, because maybe by the time her car got to the point where the engine sucked in water, the engine had already gone to idle. Don't forget the car floats for a period of time before it sinks. How long for water to reach the air intake for the engine? Probably fairly quick, but easily enough time for the engine to go to idle.

I am really hoping that Toni driving into the water triggered an event on the car's data recorder. Either when she hit the ramp or when she hit the water. That would provide some really good data. If no event was triggered, I'm not sure what data they might get, if any.

I agree. Would you not suspect though, if she was trying to back up the boat ramp, realizing her mistake ( gear selector in reverse), the engine would be revving like mad with no traction? Pure speculation I know but likely in this scenario I think. Why be idling in reverse?

 

[AceDetective]

I doubt it. In fact I bet they already tried to start the car. KCPD doesn't know what to do with evidence, or even how to look for it, it would seem.

Wouldn't it be nice to be spoon fed for existence? IMO the local newspaper there also has learned this survival technique.

2 bodies found by people looking for someone else? 2 more found by a mushroom hunter? Burned car with body found from phone tip ( still nothing on this one) -just what do they find on their own? seriously?

It is unlikely that a starter motor would damage a hydrolocked engine. It is nowhere near powerful enough.

They would not try to start the engine. They would remove the electronics and send them in for analysis. Starting the engine could potentially destroy valuable data. imo.

 

[shifferbrainz]

It is unlikely that a starter motor would damage a hydrolocked engine. It is nowhere near powerful enough.

They would not try to start the engine. They would remove the electronics and send them in for analysis. Starting the engine could potentially destroy valuable data.

Just like they would treat a non evidence vehicle like evidence, and drag the real evidence out like a log?

 

[AceDetective]

Just like they would treat a non evidence vehicle like evidence, and drag the real evidence out like a log?

That was sure odd, wasn't it? That was the state patrol, I believe. I've been wondering who would be analyzing the car.

 

[AceDetective]

I agree. Would you not suspect though, if she was trying to back up the boat ramp, realizing her mistake ( gear selector in reverse), the engine would be revving like mad with no traction? Pure speculation I know but likely in this scenario I think. Why be idling in reverse?

I haven't seen any source for the car being in reverse.

 

[shifferbrainz]

I haven't seen any source for the car being in reverse.

Post 796 thread #6

I might add, the shifter cannot be merely "bumped" into the "R" position without the key being on and brake pedal pressed ( and on a floor shifter there is also a release from park button on some) . There is an electric interlock device to prevent accidental bump shift while parked.

However, if the emergency brake was applied, with the key on, you could shift the lever to "R" while pressing the brake, close the door and reach through an open window, release e brake and car rolls away.