Motion In Limine To Exclude Mental Health Experts

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I don't think so, ZsaZsa. This one was filed yesterday. The one Macushla and I heard about was filed today right before closing, and was something about the defense would rather withdraw their request to add the doctors to the witness list rather than to allow the State to have their own expert examine ICA.

The defense must really be worried about what ICA might say.... Cause even they know she likes to talk.

ETA: Right, Macushla? That's what you heard, too?


I am sure the DT wouldn't be thrilled to have her examined by state's doctors but I don't think they would call it all off for that reason.

IMO -NO, that is all KC. It is KC that is telling the DT, "I WILL NOT BE EXAMINED BY ANY DOCTOR THE STATE SENDS IN!! PERIOD!! She hates JA. Remember in the beginning, that one motion - IT said something along the lines of "KC ANTHONY thinks the state is ???(filing some motion) b/c she refused JA's plea deal and he's angry at her b/c of that?" Yeah, to KC it's personal. And she wants to hide behind JB & DT as long as she can.

moo
 
I am sure the DT wouldn't be thrilled to have her examined by state's doctors but I don't think they would call it all off for that reason.

IMO -NO, that is all KC. It is KC that is telling the DT, "I WILL NOT BE EXAMINED BY ANY DOCTOR THE STATE SENDS IN!! PERIOD!! She hates JA. Remember in the beginning, that one motion - IT said something along the lines of "KC ANTHONY thinks the state is ???(filing some motion) b/c she refused JA's plea deal and he's angry at her b/c of that?" Yeah, to KC it's personal. And she wants to hide behind JB & DT as long as she can.

moo

And that...IMHO...explaines the look on ICA's face during the last hearing where we all noticed a change in her demeanor. I think she knew the "team" was taking a chance by offering her up...and she was worried it might backfire on her and she might actually have to be examined by the State.
 
ITA this is ICA's doing, she will not submit to a mental health evaluation, she might be afraid of what they find out about her...:maddening:

I believe as long as the State would have allowed these MHP to speak on ICA's state of mind/consciousness of guilt by using her statements to LE only, she's fine with that...But to have her picked apart when there's nothing wrong with her mentally :innocent:, she puts a halt to it..so basically she's just a cold hearted, spiteful biatch, as her mother told her many times...I myself would love an explanation to her actions but I feel I already understand the WHY's of Caylee's demise..I just hope those jurors can put two and two together and come up with Guilty as charged! JMHO

Justice for Caylee
 
Hold on to your hats, another motion has been filed. WFTV just did a story on the 5 pm news about a new motion, filed today by the defense. Basically it says that if the judge decided to let the State examine KC, the defense is going to withdraw their doctor's reports. so rather than let someone from the state examine KC, the defense has decided they don't want their doctors testifying in the guilt phase of the trial.:banghead::banghead:

Not surprised..

And are they really " expert reports"? or are they a summary of what Casey told them happened.. Cindy, Baez and now LKB all have stated Casey lied and is a liar.

One thing is for certain the DT DOES NOT want the State examining Casey!

They are trying to get Casey's version of events into the trial WITHOUT having to put Casey on the stand to testify ..that is where these 2 MD's come in..

So if the MD's are allowed to RE Tell what Casey told them how is it not considered Hearsay?
 
Quoted from this article:
http://www.wesh.com/r/27535774/detail.html


"Orlando criminal defense attorney Richard Hornsby, who is not affiliated with the case, said Ashton is concerned the information is powerful enough to taint prospective jurors."

and

"Prosecutors call the information that Anthony revealed "remote in time" to the issue at hand."

So, something that happened to KC a long time ago (or whatever she revealed that's "remote in time") will be used by the psychologists with a hypothetical person and a hypothetical situation and they will testify that this could cause them to act the same way KC did during the 31 days? I wonder what she told them that the prosecution thinks could be powerful enough to taint a jury pool and the defense thinks would explain her consciousness of guilt actions.

Wait!!??!! These MD's are going to get on the stand in a murder trial and, along with the questioning of the DT, are going to testify to a HYPOTHETICAL person and situation?

When did this become a hypothetical murder trial?
:waitasec:
 
If this is true, I suspect this decision to withdraw has KC's prints all over it. NO WAY NO HOW was she going to subject herself to a mental evaluation by the state expert. I have a lovely picture in my mind of her throwing a big ole hissy fit over it. I hope she was so frushtrated she couldn't schwallow.

Is that mean?

True...there is NO WAY Casey and her DT would allow a Prosecution mental health expert to examine her...
 
Take a quick look at how some media can try to twist the facts:

"Prosecutors are so concerned about what murder suspect Casey Anthony told a pair of defense psychiatrists, they don't want the issue being discussed at all, not even at a pretrial hearing."

http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/27535774/detail.html

WESH's leading sentence, which I copied above, leads one to believe that there is some great truth that the prosecutors are afraid for the jurors (or even public) to hear because it would be so damaging to their case. You have to read the rest of the article to realize that nothing supports the introduction. The prosecution, imo, is only insisting that evidence based solely on Casey's chronicle be supported by facts before being presented. It's not like the defense psych guys have found some huge revelation that the state is trying to conceal. But you'd never get that by reading this article. . . moo. :sigh:
 
:banghead:
Wait!!??!! These MD's are going to get on the stand in a murder trial and, along with the questioning of the DT, are going to testify to a HYPOTHETICAL person and situation?

When did this become a hypothetical murder trial?
:waitasec:

They have been using a lot of "hypothetical" in the last few hearings...I'm thinking that it is a different meaning to them vs. us & webster....think to them it means skirting the truth to their favor...similar to their misuse of the work "pro-bono"---I'm sure after this case Webster may have to sit down and re-define lots and lots of words....
 
Not surprised..

And are they really " expert reports"? or are they a summary of what Casey told them happened.. Cindy, Baez and now LKB all have stated Casey lied and is a liar.

One thing is for certain the DT DOES NOT want the State examining Casey!

They are trying to get Casey's version of events into the trial WITHOUT having to put Casey on the stand to testify ..that is where these 2 MD's come in..

So if the MD's are allowed to RE Tell what Casey told them how is it not considered Hearsay?
BBM-this is my understanding of the State's objections.

It is a solid objection-the data the experts are testifying about is completely biased and one sided. Since it was communicated by Casey herself, the state has a right to cross examine her and her version of events. Seems logical to me.

My understanding is the the mental health experts have not reviewed any evidence that would contradict her version of events-and we know at a minimum that she is a liar.

I think the state will get what they are requesting, unless DT pulls the request to have them testify.
 
Jose's opening 2 minutes, in theory,

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury. We have a tragic story of a young mother who was on the computer while her daughter was taking a nap. She then got up and went in to check on her and found her bed empty. She became hysterical running around the house frantically looking for her. Not finding her in the house, she ran into the backyard. To her horror she found her beloved daughter floating in the pool. She jumped in and pulled her out. She began CPR. To no avail. She lay her down in the backyard not knowing what to do. She began to call her mother over and over and she would not answer.

At this point, because Casey had been on computer surfing and not attending to her daughter her mind began to race. She was afraid, that once again her mother would blame her for being a bad mother. Like she always had done. Nothing was ever good enough for Cindy.

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me now explain to you what happened in the next month. Casey's mind snapped. She finally was the worst mother in the world as her mother always opined. She went into a fugue like state. Her next actions were completely dissociated from reality. She was in a dream. She covered the whole incident up. She wrapped her daughters body up in familiar clothes and cloths from home. She had no idea about decomposing bodies and was astounded at the rapid rate her beloved daughter's body changed. She frantically placed tape around her facial orifices to keep them from leaking and placed a final kiss goodbye on her mouth in the form of a heart-shaped sticker. Then she placed in the final resting place of her beloved pets from when she was a child.

Still in a state of shock, she reverted back to the age she was before she became pregnant and delivered a child. Back to the carefree days when she worked at Universal, becoming independent and earning her own money. Back when she was happy. But then she would meet a man, slightly older than herself, with a child already. She fell in love, he only to completely reject her. She found herself pregnant, dejected, and like many a young woman in this circumstance in denial of her pregnancy. Thus, began a terrible beginning of dissociation from reality and fantasy. Universal was her first found freedom. Universal is where she found severe pain. She would later return there, one day, terribly with the police.

The next month, she lived as that young 19 year pre-mother days. Like any normal 19 year old would. She lived as she had no memory of being pregnant, giving birth, being a mother and the tragic accident and what she did to cover it up.

Facts will show that in this month she went out to clubs, had dates with boyfriends and got a tattoo. Normal 19 yr old activities. However she found herself without money, and reverting to the dissociative state, used another's checkbook to buy normal everyday teenager items.

Even when all came to light and police were involved, she actually took them to the Universal studios as if she herself still believed she worked there, like when she was 19. As police continued to question her, she went in and out of this dissociative state, not able to admit the horrific events of that terrible afternoon, finally resorting to a telling herself and her mother and the police of a of a beautiful, capable nanny that she allowed to babysit her child to cover over what Cindy would surely accuse her of being a neglectful mother. She might have even believed this nanny was real to compensate for her own shortcomings as a mother.

What we have here is a young woman, so afraid of her own mother, so insecure of her own abilities at being a mom herself that when this horrible accident occurred she completely reverted back to the days before her precious baby girl was born. She literally blocked it out because reality was too horrible for her to face.

Fellow citizens, I will show you that much like the harried mother who unwittingly left her baby in a overheated car and was later found dead, Casey is in her own personal hell and will never forgive herself. What this suffering young mother needs from you is mercy and not condemnation.

To which the SA could stand up and show this video of CA stating categorically that there was NO accident. They had already discussed this with ICA- she had plenty of opportunity to tell them if there had been, both while in jail and at home on bond. Unfortunately she knew if the remains were discovered there was no way she could explain the duct tape.
The words Rock and Hard place come to mind....

Start at 5.20 into the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4bKGn4Kp6M&feature=youtu.be...
 
Take a quick look at how some media can try to twist the facts:

"Prosecutors are so concerned about what murder suspect Casey Anthony told a pair of defense psychiatrists, they don't want the issue being discussed at all, not even at a pretrial hearing."

http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/27535774/detail.html

WESH's leading sentence, which I copied above, leads one to believe that their is some great truth that the prosecutors are afraid for the jurors (or even public) to hear because it would be so damaging to their case. You have to read the rest of the article to realize that nothing supports the introduction. The prosecution, imo, is only insisting that evidence based solely on Casey's chronicle be supported by facts before being presented. It's not like the defense psych guys have found some huge revelation that the state is trying to conceal. But you'd never get that by reading this article. . . moo. :sigh:

Do you believe that article ExpectingUnicorns? I was in an absolute outrage yesterday when I just read the headline never mind the article. As suggested before - I think we can assume wesh and the DT have kissed and made up! :ignore:

Such irresponsible reporting - that is not what the SA said at all! They would love to have the DT experts AND their little letters they submitted to the court and to rebut their testimony with their own experts who have examined ICA - would LOVE it! :worms: :heartluv:

I see JA just sitting there rubbing his hands together with glee - saying bring it on Baez! There will be no sitting there in the hearing for JA, carefully reading the label on the back of his tie at tomorrow's hearing! :bigfight:
 
Wait!!??!! These MD's are going to get on the stand in a murder trial and, along with the questioning of the DT, are going to testify to a HYPOTHETICAL person and situation?

When did this become a hypothetical murder trial?
:waitasec:

You are making me laugh Intermezzo - because I immediately started imagining this whole scenario with the the look on HHJP's face saying "Mr. Baez, now we are playing make-believe?"

I think what the DT is saying is - if the court does not allow Dr. Weitz and Danzinger, then the DT wants another expert up there on the stand to discuss - "what would be the cause of this and this behavior" IYO?

Can you just imagine the fun JA would have with this in cross?? He is salivating just thinking about it! :rotfl: :poke:
 
Do you believe that article ExpectingUnicorns? I was in an absolute outrage yesterday when I just read the headline never mind the article. As suggested before - I think we can assume wesh and the DT have kissed and made up! :ignore:

Such irresponsible reporting - that is not what the SA said at all! They would love to have the DT experts AND their little letters they submitted to the court and to rebut their testimony with their own experts who have examined ICA - would LOVE it! :worms: :heartluv:

I see JA just sitting there rubbing his hands together with glee - saying bring it on Baez! There will be no sitting there in the hearing for JA, carefully reading the label on the back of his tie at tomorrow's hearing! :bigfight:

Nope; I don't believe the article. That's what I was trying to say in my post. I think WESH totally misrepresented the state's pov. I think WESH wants first access to any and everything Jose wants to release. moo.
 
Nope; I don't believe the article. That's what I was trying to say in my post. I think WESH totally misrepresented the state's pov. I think WESH wants first access to any and everything Jose wants to release. moo.

Yes, completely. As the saying goes - "you are right on the money". Hmm, that saying kinds fits the DT don't you think?:waitasec:
 
RespectfullyQuoted SoCalSleuth :tyou:

Thank you for offering your experience. It does carry weight for me that you say you believe some people are "just bad." I have to think that sometimes, I guess I want to give or have a reason for why people do terrible things to other people...so thank you for adding to my information. :hug:

So, is Casey a sociopath? Wouldn't the dr.s that gave her mental examinations know if she was one? (I am ignorant to these things, obviously) Do people get diagnosed as being a "sociopath" or is it just traits that can be seen in some people that are "sociopathic?"

I want to unwrap myself from the "sociopath" speak here and say: wouldn't professionals have to find, by definition, something wrong with Casey Anthony? KWIM? Isn't a person who does something as "bad" as killing her child, by definition make them insane? I have kind of asked that before, I don't mean insane as in like it is a defense for what she did-or why she did it...

but compared to "you or me"-isn't she insane? Or how can it be said that there is nothing wrong with her? This is you and me talking, I understand that for the law she has to be deemed either responsible-knowing from right and wrong or insane-not knowing right from wrong. But for practical conversation, how can she have a "normal" psychology?

Is that how we define who is sane and who is insane, not knowing the difference between right and wrong? Would the dr.s say someone is a narcissist? Or say they have narcissistic tendencies? Is that something a dr. would testify to?

I have not read the whole thread( :tsktsk: ) but from what I have gathered, Casey would have to get on the stand about what the dr.s were saying about her or it would be hearsay? Oh, and I was confused about what was "secret" at the last hearing, I thought it was for the heart shaped sticker but it is for this, okay. Got that now. :loser:

If, Jose was able to get these drs on the stand and they are able to say that Casey was suffering(though no fault of her own)from some kind of mental distress or phase(maybe from being molested, or how her mother treated her, etc.)and that is what explains her behavior those 31 days and her behavior since then...

then the SA would get to cross examine, yes? (I don't know to ask any more about that, it just occurred to me as I was asking my questions).

Do we officially recognize "sociopathic" people? Psychopaths? Are there people in jail who are known as a official diagnosis as "sociopath?" When do they get that dianosis? Is it or has it ever been a factor in a criminal trial, or any trial? TIA.

I will read the rest of the thread now. :thumb:

:read:

Well, if the good doctors did not find that kc suffered from any mental illness or recognized diagnosis then I would have to say she isn't a sociopath (that's a recognized diagnosis) and isn't insane either. My point was that some people aren't mentally ill they are just bad people. Yes, there are people in jail with a confirmed diagnosis of sociopath or psycopath. The timing of the diagnosis would be dependent on the particular circumstances of the case. The SA always has the ability to cross-examine any witnesses presented by the defense. The problem with the doctors testifying is that according to the motions they are basing their opinions on statements kc made to them. At this point in time the SA has not had an opportunity to examine KC in order to "cross" her so to speak on the statements she made. I really have a hard time seeing how this testimony is going to come in without a state examination --even then, I don't see how it's admissible.

Now, I'm wondering whatever happened to the objection that the witnesses were designated late? Dr. D examined her almost 3 years ago--why the delay in issuing his report? Seems to me the DT waited until they got a court ruling on her statements--ambush in my humble opinion.
 
I heavily skimmed this thread and after I saw the WESH article linked, last night I looked for over 30 min for this Motion.

Have we actually seen it yet? Where JA states he doesn't even want it discussed during pre-trial hearings?
 
I heavily skimmed this thread and after I saw the WESH article linked, last night I looked for over 30 min for this Motion.

Have we actually seen it yet? Where JA states he doesn't even want it discussed during pre-trial hearings?

The link is in the first post of this thread.
 
The link is in the first post of this thread.

Thanks! That link isn't working for me right now, but I read a pdf of JA's Motion last night (at least one of his motions...I think it is the same one you linked) and I didn't see anything in it where JA said he didn't want it discussed in pre-trial hearings. :waitasec:

Sorry guys, I am wayyyy behind in reading all the news links. I thought maybe there was another motion I've missed.
 
http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/27535774/detail.html

What Did Casey Tell Psychiatrists?
Prosecutors Ask Any Mention Of Information Be Kept Out Of Court
POSTED: 5:11 pm EDT April 13, 2011

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Prosecutors are so concerned about what murder suspect Casey Anthony told a pair of defense psychiatrists, they don't want the issue being discussed at all, not even at a pretrial hearing.

A hearing is scheduled for Friday in the case regarding use of the experts.
In a new motion filed Wednesday afternoon [April 13, 2011] , prosecutors said they are concerned about the potential impact of the revelations if they are made public during Friday's court hearing. They're asking Judge Belvin Perry to make sure that doesn't happen.

No LINK for NEW State Motion filed on April 13th
04/13/2011 Motion State of Florida's Motion in Limine

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27531717/detail.html
4/8/11 Motion for Examination by Mental Health Expert

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27531732/detail.html
4/12/11 Def. Response to Motion For Examination by Mental Health Expert

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27531699/detail.html
4/12/11 Motion in Limine as to Testimony of Mental Health Experts
 
Here it is Beach.

It states:

"The potential prejudice that would result from the premature discussion
of these opinions could not be overcome by any instruction by this court, should the opinions be ultimatley found to be inadmissable."

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/27528144/detail.html
 

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