MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #11

[rbarber17]

I'm sorry but most whiskey nowadays doesn't burn at all. Only something like moonshine or wood alcohol and wouldn't cause the burns she received. The alcohol doesn't burn very long or hot.

I was at a bachelor party many, many moons ago. A fellow brought a Mason jar of white lightening to sample. He did a little demo by pouring some out on a wooden picnic table and igniting it with a lighter. The blue flames did not seem to damage the surface at all. When they make Bananas Foster, they have to first heat up the alcohol before they tip it so the flames ignite it and Whooof, but it quickly burns out. And last but not least, I've been on sailboats large enough to have galleys, and the stoves in them usually burned alcohol, since if it spilled, you could put it out with water. The flame is not very hot, so it takes longer to cook than with propane.

JMO

 

[gngr~snap]

Here is a map. it still doesn't tell us the direction the "loud pipes" were traveling, but LRM lives south of Main Street I believe.

 

[Angelswing]

Water is heavier, so water is in contact with the surface while the alcohol burns. Research states it takes a minimum 90 proof to really burn
Higher proof/better burn.
Jack D's 90 proof sgl barrel avg 3x the price of Jack D.
Moonshine... Is available I'm sure and it's gonna be cheaper.

 

[gngr~snap]

I am curious to find out what was used if it wasn't "gas".
I was shocked when my son showed me how
gel hand sanitizer burns, blue flame and all.
No choice but to be patient.
Hopefully an arrest will come soon.

 

[Classito]

A remember from December...

"I called the sheriff's department and I told them everything that I knew," said tipster Ray McClenic. "I said, 'What y'all are looking for, I don't know what kind of vehicle.' I said, 'But it's got really, really loud pipes on it.'" McClenic said he heard a vehicle driving fast down his street the night Jessica Chambers was discovered burning next to her car in Courtland, Mississippi more than one week ago.
http://www.wfsb.com/story/27645789/investigators-follow-new-lead-in-jessica-chambers-murder-case

There is a Lonnie Ray McClenic in his 50’s who lives at 8233 Highway 51, Courtland, MS:
http://www.intelius.com/Find-Phone-Address/Courtland-MS/Lonnie-Mcclenic.html

That location is approximately 0.5 miles south of the Post Office on Old Highway 51, and about 0.7 miles south of the M&M First Stop on Highway 51 at Carlisle. So the “really loud” vehicle would have been traveling along Highway 51, but he failed to mention which direction – was it toward HENTZ Road, or away from it?

JMO

I'm trying to figure out how he knew the car with loud pipes was involved...

Classito

 

[rbarber17]

I'm trying to figure out how he knew the car with loud pipes was involved...

Classito

Good question, Classito.

My guess is it was the timing that caused his association of the two. He probably didn't find out about Jessica's murder until the next day (Sunday). Then, after he learned that the arson/murder had taken place sometime between 6:30-7:30 the previous evening, and assuming that a really loud speeding vehicle passing through his neighborhood was an unusual occurence he'd remember, he simply put two and two together and called LE.

He did seem pretty sure of himself though, didn't he? It's unclear from the article whether he called his tip in right after the murder, or later on, when the article was written. If his was one of the "new leads" three days after the funeral, why did he wait?

JMO

 

[Angelswing]

maybe
"It sounded like ?????'s vehicle"
If that's the case, I'm sure he struggled with the possibility that someone he's familiar with may have been involved....
Just my thoughts

 

[gngr~snap]

I'm trying to figure out how he knew the car with loud pipes was involved...

Classito

He is the ex husband of BC wife. They share 2 grown military sons. JMO I believe his "knowledge " was more about the timing than anything else. He heard the loud pipes probably shortly before first responders arrived. He said he told "em" everything he knew... (wish I was a fly on the wall during that conversation! )

I believe BC & DC have been together over 10 years. He may have heard quite a few things.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[gngr~snap]

The FBI never did solve that mystery about who placed a flaming paper bag of dog poop on Sheldon's front porch, rang the doorbell, and then ran away. The future Dr. Cooper did what any sane person would have done and stomped the crap out of that flaming bag... of..... crap. Ooops.

Hope the FBI does a little better with this case.

O/T I went to a small college in North GA. THE "poo" bag was old school! Cow tipping was too.
The guys in my class walked the whole d@mned heifer up to the 3rd floor of the guys dorm! *big oopsy!!!
They had to tranquilize it and it took HOURS to get it back down the stairs and back to the dairy.
YEAH. I feel sad for that cow, but omg, no girl set floor on that floor for weeks!!!!
All the hair and the stains -
And... believe it or not they never figured out exactly who did it. It was 3 guys wearing the same clothes and a paper grocery bag with the eyes cut out. (Like an old Saturday night live skit) The whole floor got fined, but they we're pretty sure it was the seniors in the other building.

"Old Bessy" was OK. I am pretty sure she wasn't as sore as the guys trying to maneuver the twists and turns down 3 flights of stairs...

OK back to Jessica- maybe someone got a chuckle about this...

 

[DeDee]

Whiskey could have been accelerant ( which would explain- for lack of better term-Jessica's throat and nose "doused with accelerant) brand/ volume could help identify owner's financial status.
"Loud pipe" witness is possibly related to Chambers family (Debbie Chambers who appears to be related to a former police Lt indicted for perjury)
A tangled web huh?

There exists a video interview by reporters of Ali. Near the end, the reporters had a sly trick up their sleeve as Ali believes the recorded conversation is "off the record" and all devices have ceased capturing his words. A white truck enters the parking lot of M&Ms. The white truck's loud pipes cause enough attention for Ali to turn his head toward the noise.

It just seems to me that "the louder, the faster, the better" the cars, trucks, motorcycles, crotch rockets and unicycles are in C'land/B'ville. As for me, I prefer a smooth ride. Life has to have its luxuries.

 

[DeDee]

I adore cow stories. Thanx. After passing a yellow Cattle Crossing sign once, we became stuck in traffic on a road in Montrose, CO as we were forced to allow a herd of exquisite cattle to cross the road. We sat in our car nearly twenty minutes watching the cows cross slowly. What seemed like thousands, were probably several hundred heads. I'll never forget the beautiful sight.


Gallons of accelerate, gasoline, to be specific, were required for the fiery death of JC and of her car. I dare to admit every inch of that car was covered including each of her four tires being heavily doused. Once I knew the appx amount as several brilliant minds calculated and relayed it but my memory fails ATT. rb, ging, anyone, anywho, do you remember how many gallons of gas were needed?

I do believe that lighter fluid was also an accelerate used, just as Ben described. And, JMHO, JC was also doused with gasoline while inside her car and possibly once more as she stepped out of her vehicle.

If she was conked on the head, sprayed in the face and throat with lighter fluid, then her and her car doused in gasoline, or vice versa, and then set afire so that no one else gets burned, it did not take long at all to occur once the car was in place (in park with the emergency brake up, jmo) on the death knoll so the perps could make a quick get-away before Cole could turn his car toward Herron after leaving from the previous fire. As has been determined, it is a minute and a half, two minutes tops, from the CS to M&Ms or anybody's nearby home or other temporary hide out. C'land is only 1.2m square. Escaping the scene was not a problem for the killers. Esp. when considering there was a first fire distraction.

The (whiskey) bottle seen after JCs CS on Herron Rd was released (to the public) is perhaps larger than a pint size of liquor but not the size of a fifth. I took a 6 week wine connoisseur class before touring Napa Valley. I adore Egg Nog with Rum during the holidays but that is about the extent of my knowledge of liquors except that I prefer a Bloody Mary made with Absolute with marinated green beans and a shaft of crunchy celery for garnish.

 

[gngr~snap]

http://www.interfire.org/res_file/kirk_ars.asp

This was an interesting read. It seems that the ATF may have been able to develop a "profile " of the arsonist as well, based on evidence found at the scene.
It does seem like this was an amatuer and perhaps, he over did it, actually preserving some aspects like DNA and/ or fingerprints.
The part about the Molotov cocktail was particularly interesting. I have always felt this was the ignition source for the car fire.

 

[Matic]

I don't put much stock in RM'S interview about loud pipes.
I saw it a while back and instantly thought this guy was just out for his 15 mins of fame. Jmo.

 

[rbarber17]

http://www.interfire.org/res_file/kirk_ars.asp

This was an interesting read. It seems that the ATF may have been able to develop a "profile " of the arsonist as well, based on evidence found at the scene.
It does seem like this was an amatuer and perhaps, he over did it, actually preserving some aspects like DNA and/ or fingerprints.
The part about the Molotov cocktail was particularly interesting. I have always felt this was the ignition source for the car fire.

Extremely interesting read, gngr~snap:

"To this end, most rational arsonists will be sure there are the fundamental requirements for a large, spreading fire: ready availability of fuel, proper ventilation, and reliable ignition."​

[boldface added by me]

That is one thing I had wondered about before. In the photos at M&M and the impound lot, all of the glass seemed to be missing from Jessica's car. The question is, was it left behind on the ground around her car at the CS, or was it inside her car in the floorboard? I'll assume all the windows were rolled up, at least initially, on a cool winter evening. So if the glass was all on the outside, maybe the pressure inside the car increased from the heat until it "blew" them out. Possible, but not plausible, since all four side windows, and the front and rear windshields, would have had to blow out simultaneously. More than likely, one would have blown out first, thereby relieving any internal pressure on the others.

So, assuming the glass was mostly on the inside, there are two likely explanations: (1) the perp(s) knew good ventilation was required inside the car for a complete burn, so he/she/they broke out every window before lighting the car on fire; or (2) the CVFD used the force of the fire hose to litterally blow in the windows, in order to extinguish the burning interior.

Only the first responders would know which it was, and of course, the crime scene investigators. Again, we are left scratching our heads.

JMO


Just thought of one other possibility. If the gas tank did blow before the CVFD put out the fire, that would have probably been a big enough pressure surge to blow out all the windows...

 

[rbarber17]

O/T I went to a small college in North GA. THE "poo" bag was old school! Cow tipping was too.
The guys in my class walked the whole d@mned heifer up to the 3rd floor of the guys dorm! *big oopsy!!!
They had to tranquilize it and it took HOURS to get it back down the stairs and back to the dairy.
YEAH. I feel sad for that cow, but omg, no girl set floor on that floor for weeks!!!!
All the hair and the stains -
And... believe it or not they never figured out exactly who did it. It was 3 guys wearing the same clothes and a paper grocery bag with the eyes cut out. (Like an old Saturday night live skit) The whole floor got fined, but they we're pretty sure it was the seniors in the other building.

"Old Bessy" was OK. I am pretty sure she wasn't as sore as the guys trying to maneuver the twists and turns down 3 flights of stairs...

OK back to Jessica- maybe someone got a chuckle about this...

Well, I certainly did. Imagine waking up the next morning to the sound of a mooing cow outside your door.

I, too, went to a small college in North Ga -- the North Avenue Trade School. One popular prank in the freshman dorms was filling up a hallway trash can with about 30 gallons of water and leaning it against a dorm room door in the middle of the night. The next morning, when the sleepy student opened his door, SURPRISE! They (OK, -we-) also used to lean really hard against a closed door while somebody else wedged pennies in between it and the metal door jamb. It made it nearly impossible to turn the door knob to open the door, with so much spring pressure on the bolt. Ah, the halcyon days of youth...

:chillout:

 

[gngr~snap]

Well, I certainly did. Imagine waking up the next morning to the sound of a mooing cow outside your door.

I, too, went to a small college in North Ga -- the North Avenue Trade School. One popular prank in the freshman dorms was filling up a hallway trash can with about 30 gallons of water and leaning it against a dorm room door in the middle of the night. The next morning, when the sleepy student opened his door, SURPRISE! They (OK, -we-) also used to lean really hard against a closed door while somebody else wedged pennies in between it and the metal door jamb. It made it nearly impossible to turn the door knob to open the door, with so much spring pressure on the bolt. Ah, the halcyon days of youth...

:chillout:

Then I'm sure you are familiar with Berry College. It was a small college eons ago!

 

[rbarber17]

Then I'm sure you are familiar with Berry College. It was a small college eons ago!

Sounds familiar. Do you remember Lester Maddox, or was he before your time?

My sisters and their husbands all went to Alabama. I was the only odd ball. Most guys where I went to school either had hometown honeys, or dated girls from Agnes Scott on the other side of town. Not too many coeds back when I attended. Or indoor plumbing (only kidding.)

 

[gngr~snap]

Sounds familiar. Do you remember Lester Maddox, or was he before your time?

My sisters and their husbands all went to Alabama. I was the only odd ball. Most guys where I went to school either had hometown honeys, or dated girls from Agnes Scott on the other side of town. Not too many coeds back when I attended. Or indoor plumbing (only kidding.)

I remember him well!

 

[DeDee]

I remember him well!

Who could forget the Gov who LBJ shut the lights out of his business?

 

[DeDee]

Extremely interesting read, gngr~snap:

"To this end, most rational arsonists will be sure there are the fundamental requirements for a large, spreading fire: ready availability of fuel, proper ventilation, and reliable ignition."​

[boldface added by me]

That is one thing I had wondered about before. In the photos at M&M and the impound lot, all of the glass seemed to be missing from Jessica's car. The question is, was it left behind on the ground around her car at the CS, or was it inside her car in the floorboard? I'll assume all the windows were rolled up, at least initially, on a cool winter evening. So if the glass was all on the outside, maybe the pressure inside the car increased from the heat until it "blew" them out. Possible, but not plausible, since all four side windows, and the front and rear windshields, would have had to blow out simultaneously. More than likely, one would have blown out first, thereby relieving any internal pressure on the others.

So, assuming the glass was mostly on the inside, there are two likely explanations: (1) the perp(s) knew good ventilation was required inside the car for a complete burn, so he/she/they broke out every window before lighting the car on fire; or (2) the CVFD used the force of the fire hose to litterally blow in the windows, in order to extinguish the burning interior.

Only the first responders would know which it was, and of course, the crime scene investigators. Again, we are left scratching our heads.

JMO

Just thought of one other possibility. If the gas tank did blow before the CVFD put out the fire, that would have probably been a big enough pressure surge to blow out all the windows...

Learn something new every day. Thanks, gngr, for the link. A fireman would know this fact from the article:

"This makes it necessary to set the accelerate very quickly and to ignite it from a safe distance, thereby reducing the arsonist's control of the set. Kerosenes, paint thinners, and proprietary lantern fuels are easier to use because of their lower volatility."


I feel volatility was a consideration of the unsubs. If gas or jet fuel (like that is used in crotch rocket races) was the accelerate, then a molotov cocktail, or a poor man's grenade, would be necessary for preserving the safety and well-being of the unsubs. Maybe a grenade was used for ignition. Just my own speculation

The perps used so much fuel/accelerate that the car burned and continued to burn because the fire certainly had the 3 components we've previously discussed. When the first responder, CH, arrived; he came driving his own car. He didn't have a fire hose w/water in his vehicle. How close could he physically walk to the fire before the intense heat held him back even while possibly wearing full gear?

The CS had two distinct burn patterns. I believe, to the best of my knowledge, that one burn pattern was where the car was parked near the tree. A short distance away was another large scorched area yet much smaller than the car area, which, I believe, was where Jessica fell to the ground during an oncoming comatose condition arisen out of intensive and acute pain. It's also the reason I believe she was doused twice. Maybe someone saw her exit the car and ran with more fuel to assure that she would not live. JMHO

The case is being investigated as arson. Darby made that clear from the beginning.


.