GUILTY MT - Sherry Arnold, 43, Sidney, 7 Jan 2012 - #3

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I need a huge favor from any one who may can help.. I'm via mobile and try as I may for some reason I cannot get to the people.com photo depicting the field that you all discussed earlier.. If anyone could please post this photo(not sure if it's just one or more) if anyone could post it with a link I'd be forever grateful..

TIA to anyone who can help:)

I think this should do it. I don't know how to place a big pic in the post itself, but if you click on the smaller image you should be able to see it.
 

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I need a huge favor from any one who may can help.. I'm via mobile and try as I may for some reason I cannot get to the people.com photo depicting the field that you all discussed earlier.. If anyone could please post this photo(not sure if it's just one or more) if anyone could post it with a link I'd be forever grateful..

TIA to anyone who can help:)

And if the thumbnail doesn't work for you while mobile... here is this one:

sherryfield.jpg



Link to image:

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2012/news/120130/sherry-arnold-440.jpg


Link to article:

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20562743,00.html
 
More from the article:
Currently, Montana has sole jurisdiction over the aggravated kidnapping charges, since Montana is where the case began. If the investigation results in other crimes committed then the location those crimes were committed would establish who has jurisdiction over those.

As of Thursday, police had not recovered Arnold’s body but had reason to believe it’s in North Dakota. If that’s the case, then depending on the evidence the prosecutors have, the state of North Dakota could have jurisdiction over whatever crimes were committed in their jurisdiction.

And in a twist, if crimes were committed while crossing a state line the federal government may also have jurisdiction.

It is possible that Montana and North Dakota could pursue trials on the charges committed in their jurisdictions and the federal government could step in and pursue charges also. When it comes to the double jeopardy clause and the states, that is another story.

It is also possible federal attorneys request that the states drop their charges and only they take over court proceedings.

I wonder if it will be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt exactly where Sherry was murdered and/or sexually assaulted. If they can't find Sherry and they only have the word of one of the suspects regarding the location and sexual assaults it could be safer to stick with the aggravated kidnapping charges.

While they wouldn't have a body if they went that route it seems like there are other trials where prosecutors are successful getting a conviction even without having a body.

And then the feds might want to go after them too! The article says that the feds might ask MT and ND to drop their charges and then prosecute the two themselves. Does that mean that in order for the feds to prosecute the states must drop the charges against the two?

Its probably worse for the younger one, but even Waters with his extensive experience with the law has to sweatin' in his cell.
 
More from the article:


I wonder if it will be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt exactly where Sherry was murdered and/or sexually assaulted. If they can't find Sherry and they only have the word of one of the suspects regarding the location and sexual assaults it could be safer to stick with the aggravated kidnapping charges.

While they wouldn't have a body if they went that route it seems like there are other trials where prosecutors are successful getting a conviction even without having a body.

And then the feds might want to go after them too! The article says that the feds might ask MT and ND to drop their charges and then prosecute the two themselves. Does that mean that in order for the feds to prosecute the states must drop the charges against the two?

Its probably worse for the younger one, but even Waters with his extensive experience with the law has to sweatin' in his cell.

Waters BETTER be sweatin'!!! He hit the Jackpot of horrible crimes this time!
 
Thank u both daisy and Ms. Facetious! (got mixed up there for a minute) You guys are the best and I greatly appreciate you all posting the photo for me!!! ((((HUGS))))
 
My gosh this criminal has been busy! :maddening::banghead:
How did he even find time to do anything else in life...like eat sleep, etc. Unless he had to wait to go to jail to get those "luxuries"!

And he even had two kids... :waitasec:


Think it through though. You and I would want to make sure they were okay.

A criminal who doesn't want anyone to know they hit someone would want to silence anyone who witnessed the accident, which at the very least includes the person they hit.

Sadly though, I just don't think it was an accident.

I know this is a REALLY bad comparison... and I apologize in advance.

But if I hit a deer... and it gets up and runs away... the deer is okay in my mind.
I'm not concerned enough to go chase the deer down and make sure it's okay or make sure it's dead.

I would look at it the same way with a person.
If they get up and keep running, they are likely not seriously injured.
Or if they are, they will likely get to help before they collapse because they are running away after all.

Also if I hit them and then they ran away... that happened pretty fast.
They likely didn't see the vehicle/person/plate number well enough to do anything about it.

AND if I already have multiple "hit and run" and "hit and run with injury" charges on my record... why is one more going to bother me?
I'll just get away with it again anyway...

If I'm a good person and that happens, I might call and report it. But I'm not going to chase them down...
Because that would freak ME out if I'd just been hit by someone and then they chased me down.

I agree this was no accident, I just can't find a way that it makes sense that way...
 
And he even had two kids... :waitasec:




I know this is a REALLY bad comparison... and I apologize in advance.

But if I hit a deer... and it gets up and runs away... the deer is okay in my mind.
I'm not concerned enough to go chase the deer down and make sure it's okay or make sure it's dead.

I would look at it the same way with a person.
If they get up and keep running, they are likely not seriously injured.
Or if they are, they will likely get to help before they collapse because they are running away after all.

Also if I hit them and then they ran away... that happened pretty fast.
They likely didn't see the vehicle/person/plate number well enough to do anything about it.

AND if I already have multiple "hit and run" and "hit and run with injury" charges on my record... why is one more going to bother me?
I'll just get away with it again anyway...

If I'm a good person and that happens, I might call and report it. But I'm not going to chase them down...
Because that would freak ME out if I'd just been hit by someone and then they chased me down.

I agree this was no accident, I just can't find a way that it makes sense that way...

I don't think it was a bad comparison.

I lived in a remote area when I was in WA, I hadn't ever seen a real live deer before let alone consider that they would cross the road I took to get home until I almost hit one. I was so shaken it took awhile to even drive again let alone worry about the deer. :)

And I see what your saying about people/car accidents. Calling it in might be the safest option.

And I agree with you because I tried really hard to make the accident theory work... it just doesn't.
 
If they were driving around back roads looking for a more secluded location to hide Sherry would they be able to see enough details in the landscape around them to be able to take LE back to the general area?

To be honest, I'm kind of disappointed that they haven't done a grid search or even a search that is less detailed yet structured of that area you are referring to. I know that we've heard reports that formal searches took place through the 12th, but I don't remember seeing pictures or descriptions of those search efforts. For example, when LE and volunteer were searching we received reports that it was very structured with sign ins to track who was searching and saw pictures of people carefully searching areas by walking in a line.

Keep in mind that you can drive all day in that area and, so long as you stay off the major routes and away from towns, never see a single police car.

Say the suspects drove for up to 60 miles before stopping to bury her body. That's an area of 11,309.7 square miles. It sounds like it took 1000 volunteers to search a 10 square mile area. Doing that for the entire area would mean 1,130.97 searches of that magnitude. Assuming each searcher put in 5 hours on the original search, that's 5,654,850 man hours.

On average, workers in the US put in 2,150 hours per year. So to search that area would take 2,630 people working full time for a year to search the entire area.

Granted, you can probably assume that they went somewhere east judging from the official areas to search, so you can cut all the above numbers in half. But even cut in half, that just doesn't seem that do-able for me on a formal basis.

What might be do-able would be a mailing campaign with a flyer including a postage-paid post card to every landowner of record in the area, explaining what happened and asking them to fill in and send back the postage card once they have checked their own treelines. That would cut down considerably on the area left to search.

For the landowners who don't return the postcards, then have a central organisation make contact with them personally, asking them to either search or grant permission for a search by volunteers/LE.

Just an idea.
 
Wondering if some locals are able to respond to this.

After viewing the picture of the orange/red flags in the field I am curious as to whether or not those same kind of flags are used to direct the fertilizer trucks to what field gets fertilized with what.

I can't imagine LE leaving those flags, but maybe they did.
 
Wondering if some locals are able to respond to this.

After viewing the picture of the orange/red flags in the field I am curious as to whether or not those same kind of flags are used to direct the fertilizer trucks to what field gets fertilized with what.

I can't imagine LE leaving those flags, but maybe they did.


They look like evidence flags to me. According to the capture under the picture it appears they are. Looks like they have more than just the shoe. Possibly, shoe or boot prints. IMO
 
I wonder if they shoe was found right next to the road or way out in the field? I wonder when they will tell us what the "substance" was they found on her shoe? Regardless of how the incident unfolded, LE believes they took her. When an abduction occurs, isn't it usually just one man taking a woman? Not two or more? That is my biggest reason for thinking she was hit and taken to hide evidence. From there, I think they hid her quickly. They would not want to be pulled over with her in their possession. I believe she is buried very close to where her shoe was found.
 
Either that or one experience criminal showing another how to do it. IMO
 
Wondering if some locals are able to respond to this.

After viewing the picture of the orange/red flags in the field I am curious as to whether or not those same kind of flags are used to direct the fertilizer trucks to what field gets fertilized with what.

I can't imagine LE leaving those flags, but maybe they did.

Farmers do not leave flags in their fields. If there is going to be construction the "Call before you dig" people will come in and mark the location of underground wires and pipes, but those do not look like that type of flag. They are markers left by LE.
 
Keep in mind that you can drive all day in that area and, so long as you stay off the major routes and away from towns, never see a single police car.

Say the suspects drove for up to 60 miles before stopping to bury her body. That's an area of 11,309.7 square miles. It sounds like it took 1000 volunteers to search a 10 square mile area. Doing that for the entire area would mean 1,130.97 searches of that magnitude. Assuming each searcher put in 5 hours on the original search, that's 5,654,850 man hours.

On average, workers in the US put in 2,150 hours per year. So to search that area would take 2,630 people working full time for a year to search the entire area.

Granted, you can probably assume that they went somewhere east judging from the official areas to search, so you can cut all the above numbers in half. But even cut in half, that just doesn't seem that do-able for me on a formal basis.

What might be do-able would be a mailing campaign with a flyer including a postage-paid post card to every landowner of record in the area, explaining what happened and asking them to fill in and send back the postage card once they have checked their own treelines. That would cut down considerably on the area left to search.

For the landowners who don't return the postcards, then have a central organisation make contact with them personally, asking them to either search or grant permission for a search by volunteers/LE.

Just an idea.

That is an excellent description of the magnitude of the area involved and why a systematic search of everything is impossible.

I'll just add that much of the land is owned by people who no longer live in the area. It's leased or rented by larger farmers. For example, I own land 200 miles from where I live. If there was a search going on in that area it would not be practical for me to go down there. But I know that the guy who rents my land would do it without being asked. People around here have a strong sense of community and will check the land they own and rent. They want her found as much as anyone does.

A very small farm or ranch would be three to five square miles. Operations of 10 to 20 square miles are typical. They will check the land as time permits. The cold snap which we have been under the past couple of weeks is coming to an end and that will make it easier for people to get out and look over the area. In the mean time people still have to feed their cows and those who calve early are starting to get very busy.
 
More from the article:


I wonder if it will be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt exactly where Sherry was murdered and/or sexually assaulted. If they can't find Sherry and they only have the word of one of the suspects regarding the location and sexual assaults it could be safer to stick with the aggravated kidnapping charges.

While they wouldn't have a body if they went that route it seems like there are other trials where prosecutors are successful getting a conviction even without having a body.

And then the feds might want to go after them too! The article says that the feds might ask MT and ND to drop their charges and then prosecute the two themselves. Does that mean that in order for the feds to prosecute the states must drop the charges against the two?

Its probably worse for the younger one, but even Waters with his extensive experience with the law has to sweatin' in his cell.

Lesser Include Offenses: Lesser included offense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Throw everything at them and see what sticks. This is where the skill of investigators and prosecutors come in. Having the help of the FBI will be a monumental boost for this case; they have the technical abilities/capabilities that a small jurisdiction won't have.
 
Good idea about the postcards. Another helpful thing would be to contact trucking companies and independent truckers to see if anyone gave Spell a ride. The Trucker Radio Show or Red Eye Radio would do announcements urging truckers to contact LE if they did give Spell a ride.

Keep in mind that you can drive all day in that area and, so long as you stay off the major routes and away from towns, never see a single police car.

Say the suspects drove for up to 60 miles before stopping to bury her body. That's an area of 11,309.7 square miles. It sounds like it took 1000 volunteers to search a 10 square mile area. Doing that for the entire area would mean 1,130.97 searches of that magnitude. Assuming each searcher put in 5 hours on the original search, that's 5,654,850 man hours.

On average, workers in the US put in 2,150 hours per year. So to search that area would take 2,630 people working full time for a year to search the entire area.

Granted, you can probably assume that they went somewhere east judging from the official areas to search, so you can cut all the above numbers in half. But even cut in half, that just doesn't seem that do-able for me on a formal basis.

What might be do-able would be a mailing campaign with a flyer including a postage-paid post card to every landowner of record in the area, explaining what happened and asking them to fill in and send back the postage card once they have checked their own treelines. That would cut down considerably on the area left to search.

For the landowners who don't return the postcards, then have a central organisation make contact with them personally, asking them to either search or grant permission for a search by volunteers/LE.

Just an idea.
 
And he even had two kids... :waitasec:




I know this is a REALLY bad comparison... and I apologize in advance.

But if I hit a deer... and it gets up and runs away... the deer is okay in my mind.
I'm not concerned enough to go chase the deer down and make sure it's okay or make sure it's dead.

I would look at it the same way with a person.
If they get up and keep running, they are likely not seriously injured.
Or if they are, they will likely get to help before they collapse because they are running away after all.

Also if I hit them and then they ran away... that happened pretty fast.
They likely didn't see the vehicle/person/plate number well enough to do anything about it.

AND if I already have multiple "hit and run" and "hit and run with injury" charges on my record... why is one more going to bother me?
I'll just get away with it again anyway...

If I'm a good person and that happens, I might call and report it. But I'm not going to chase them down...
Because that would freak ME out if I'd just been hit by someone and then they chased me down.

I agree this was no accident, I just can't find a way that it makes sense that way...

If I was the runner in that scenario, it would scare the heck outa me! Only if I stopped running would it be ok if the driver stopped and approached me. In fact, if I stopped, even if only because I was in a state of mini-shock, I'd probably be annoyed if they kept going without checking on me.
 
Keep in mind that you can drive all day in that area and, so long as you stay off the major routes and away from towns, never see a single police car.

Say the suspects drove for up to 60 miles before stopping to bury her body. That's an area of 11,309.7 square miles. It sounds like it took 1000 volunteers to search a 10 square mile area. Doing that for the entire area would mean 1,130.97 searches of that magnitude. Assuming each searcher put in 5 hours on the original search, that's 5,654,850 man hours.

On average, workers in the US put in 2,150 hours per year. So to search that area would take 2,630 people working full time for a year to search the entire area.

Granted, you can probably assume that they went somewhere east judging from the official areas to search, so you can cut all the above numbers in half. But even cut in half, that just doesn't seem that do-able for me on a formal basis.

What might be do-able would be a mailing campaign with a flyer including a postage-paid post card to every landowner of record in the area, explaining what happened and asking them to fill in and send back the postage card once they have checked their own treelines. That would cut down considerably on the area left to search.

For the landowners who don't return the postcards, then have a central organisation make contact with them personally, asking them to either search or grant permission for a search by volunteers/LE.

Just an idea.

We'll I thought that would be a smaller search area than all the counties or even part of those counties. Sigh.

Whenever I look at new cases I always think back to other ones, how LE handled the situations, what the media reported etc. But this region, coupled with the fact that the area they travel is huuuuuuge.

At first I thought that when it starts to warm up the changes in the scenery would expose where she is buried when the snow melted. But that was based on a desert bunnie's limited experience with cold weather. I lived in Oly where it was relatively much warmer than MT. When it looked like my beloved Coyotes were going to return to Winnepeg (Manatoba) even Bryz said he didn't want to go there to freeze his..... and he's from Russia! Based on that I figured it must snow all the time in that area. But actually it doesn't, so I guess there isn't a really possibility of that happening.

In other cases it seems like seasonal impacts on water ways often leads to recovering the missing. But it seems like everything was already frozen when the suspects were looking for a burial site.

I guess I'm getting very worried that this is no different than when bodies are buried down here in AZ in the middle of nowhere. The more time passes, the harder it becomes to find the victims.

Its just so frustrating.

I know many out there don't want to use recovering Sherry's body as a bargaining chip to save suspect Spell's life, but that may be the only option left. OTOH, I think the death penalty in MT may be on it's way out anyway, which leaves not a darn thing left to bargain with. But then how could they be certain the DP will be abolished, so it could go either way if they take it to trial.

I think you have an awesome idea with the mailers, quite cost effective too. I think you should be a LE consultant. :)
 
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