GUILTY MT - Sherry Arnold, 43, Sidney, 7 Jan 2012 - #3

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liltexans said:
I agree that they may have buried Sherry. I kind of doubt the hole would be very deep since the ground is pretty hard. I think the main thing that would deter landowners from searching right now would be snow on the ground. I have no idea if there's any snow on the ground in those counties right now, but I could picture a landowner not bothering to look until the snow melts.
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Just a very light dusting of snow with a lot of bare ground. I have not even been able to use my snowmobile yet this winter.
 
daisy.faithfull said:
I think so too. But I was just wondering, when you're digging in that climate does it become easier or harder to do so as you get deeper?

I'd think they wouldn't want to spend that much time laboring in those conditions, but it just occurred to me that we don't know how long they spent digging. ETA: If they were on a deserted property and were confident they were out in the middle of nowhere as they say.
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Digging depends a lot of they type of soil and moisture content. Good black topsoil will be very solid. Sand or gravel has a lot more give to it. 2011 was a very wet year, so most of the ground, no matter the type, will be difficult digging with hand tools.

But in a year like this things get a bit weird. It has been cold, so ground is froze. But at the time she was murdered the "frost level" was one to two feet. Generally the ground would have been frozen to a depth of five feet or so. Anyway, back to digging. It had been a week of record high temperatures before she went missing. The ground thawed a bit, an open field exposed to sunlight thawing more than grassy areas. So the first inch or two would be relatively easy digging. Then they would have come up against the frozen dirt and that would have been like trying to dig through ice. If they were persistent and chopped their way through that, then the digging would become easier again.
 
Hello, I am new to the forum and have been reading everyone's insight from the beginning. Living on the ND side of the border and having been a neighbor of Sidney MT for most of all of my life has brought a whole lot of good living to me. This incident has been so devastating for so many people, those close to the family and many, like me, that don't even know the Arnold's / Whited's. Everyone's life has now been changed in so many ways and pray that this can all come to some sort of closure in a timely manner.

That being said I have a couple of things that have come to mind that I would like to share. The vehicle has been confirmed to be a 1992 Ford Explorer. An early 90's ford Explorer "DARK IN COLOR" had been towed from a local eatery in Williston ND on the day the arrests were made. Does anyone recall seeing a vehicle of this description in a place it did not belong on any of the days prior? Also, in researching the area of Parachute, CO, I had come across a couple of Missing Persons cases in the year or two prior to the arrests. One was in Grand Junction which is about 65 miles West of Parachute and the other was in New Castle which is 40 some odd miles East of parachute. In my mind I wonder if either or both of these perp's could be linked to either or both cases which could mean so much more.

CO CO - Jonathan Keith Kelley, 53, Grand Junction, 27 July 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Thank you again for allowing me to post and share and I truly want to see Sherry Arnold found.
 
Wat-Da-Hek said:
Hello, I am new to the forum and have been reading everyone's insight from the beginning. Living on the ND side of the border and having been a neighbor of Sidney MT for most of all of my life has brought a whole lot of good living to me. This incident has been so devastating for so many people, those close to the family and many, like me, that don't even know the Arnold's / Whited's. Everyone's life has now been changed in so many ways and pray that this can all come to some sort of closure in a timely manner.

That being said I have a couple of things that have come to mind that I would like to share. The vehicle has been confirmed to be a 1992 Ford Explorer. An early 90's ford Explorer "DARK IN COLOR" had been towed from a local eatery in Williston ND on the day the arrests were made. Does anyone recall seeing a vehicle of this description in a place it did not belong on any of the days prior? Also, in researching the area of Parachute, CO, I had come across a couple of Missing Persons cases in the year or two prior to the arrests. One was in Grand Junction which is about 65 miles West of Parachute and the other was in New Castle which is 40 some odd miles East of parachute. In my mind I wonder if either or both of these perp's could be linked to either or both cases which could mean so much more.

CO CO - Jonathan Keith Kelley, 53, Grand Junction, 27 July 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Thank you again for allowing me to post and share and I truly want to see Sherry Arnold found.
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Welcome to WS Wat-Da-Hek! :greetings:
 
hollyblue said:
Maybe he's mentally challenged? Seriously, I wonder what his IQ is?
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From the article you referenced:
Spell was arrested in 2007 in Garfield County and faced felony charges of drug distribution and contributing to the delinquency of a minor, and a misdemeanor charge of no-consent sexual contact. But after Spell was found to be under the age of 18, the charges were dismissed and the case closed, and a new case was reopened in juvenile court on one charge of drug possession with intent to distribute, said Jim Bradford, clerk of court in Garfield County. That charge also ultimately was dismissed.

I thought juvie records were sealed.:waitasec:
 
Wat-Da-Hek said:
Hello, I am new to the forum and have been reading everyone's insight from the beginning. Living on the ND side of the border and having been a neighbor of Sidney MT for most of all of my life has brought a whole lot of good living to me. This incident has been so devastating for so many people, those close to the family and many, like me, that don't even know the Arnold's / Whited's. Everyone's life has now been changed in so many ways and pray that this can all come to some sort of closure in a timely manner.

That being said I have a couple of things that have come to mind that I would like to share. The vehicle has been confirmed to be a 1992 Ford Explorer. An early 90's ford Explorer "DARK IN COLOR" had been towed from a local eatery in Williston ND on the day the arrests were made. Does anyone recall seeing a vehicle of this description in a place it did not belong on any of the days prior? Also, in researching the area of Parachute, CO, I had come across a couple of Missing Persons cases in the year or two prior to the arrests. One was in Grand Junction which is about 65 miles West of Parachute and the other was in New Castle which is 40 some odd miles East of parachute. In my mind I wonder if either or both of these perp's could be linked to either or both cases which could mean so much more.

CO CO - Jonathan Keith Kelley, 53, Grand Junction, 27 July 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Thank you again for allowing me to post and share and I truly want to see Sherry Arnold found.
Click to expand...

:wagon:


Thanks for joining in on the discussion!
 
Eoanthropus Dawsoni said:
Just a very light dusting of snow with a lot of bare ground. I have not even been able to use my snowmobile yet this winter.
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We woke up to another 4 iches of snow here this morning. I found out ABS brakes aren't that good; never mind the noise, I slid across the street.
 
Jacie Estes said:
We woke up to another 4 iches of snow here this morning. I found out ABS brakes aren't that good; never mind the noise, I slid across the street.
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Oh my goodness! I'm glad that you're okay! Here is AZ we don't have to worry about dangerous driving conditions, but I do find myself worried about those who don't seem to know how to drive when it actually does rain. :)
 
daisy.faithfull said:
Oh my goodness! I'm glad that you're okay! Here is AZ we don't have to worry about dangerous driving conditions, but I do find myself worried about those who don't seem to know how to drive when it actually does rain. :)
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Thanks, I'm used to driving on snow but this last fall was really heavy/wet and I've never had a problem like that with the brakes. :) I'm just glad that people got out of the way.
 
BabyB said:
"prosecutor Michael Weber alleges the two men kidnapped Arnold from a Sidney street about 10 minutes after she left her home."

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/sta...cle_a0e46a5c-468f-11e1-a546-001871e3ce6c.html

This is the first update I have seen that has been this specific about the incident. Has anything new/major come up in the past couple of days that I missed?
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I think the specific time is coming from the arrest citations issued for Spell and Waters. Those citations state that Sherry was kidnapped at 6:40 am. I still question how they know it was 10 minutes after Sherry left home. Going back to the beginning of this case, Sherry's husband Gary was out of the house on a walk by himself from approximately 5:30 am to 6:30 am. He stated that when he returned home at 6:30, Sherry was not at home. Unless he just missed her by a minute, I think Sherry may have left home before 6:30.
 
I got choked up thinking of Sherry during The State Of The Union when President Obama spoke of the very important role teachers have in our lives.

I would not have made it through high school if it hadn't been for a couple of my teachers. If they hadn't of been there for me I might not be living the life I do. They taught me so, so, so much more than english and algebra. I owe them so much. I don't know what I would have done without them.

I just can't imagine what this is like for Sherry's family, friends, all those in her tight knit community and her students. I wish so much that this was not a reality they have to live through.
 
GrainneDhu said:
Keep in mind that you can drive all day in that area and, so long as you stay off the major routes and away from towns, never see a single police car.

Say the suspects drove for up to 60 miles before stopping to bury her body. That's an area of 11,309.7 square miles. It sounds like it took 1000 volunteers to search a 10 square mile area. Doing that for the entire area would mean 1,130.97 searches of that magnitude. Assuming each searcher put in 5 hours on the original search, that's 5,654,850 man hours.

On average, workers in the US put in 2,150 hours per year. So to search that area would take 2,630 people working full time for a year to search the entire area.

Granted, you can probably assume that they went somewhere east judging from the official areas to search, so you can cut all the above numbers in half. But even cut in half, that just doesn't seem that do-able for me on a formal basis.

What might be do-able would be a mailing campaign with a flyer including a postage-paid post card to every landowner of record in the area, explaining what happened and asking them to fill in and send back the postage card once they have checked their own treelines. That would cut down considerably on the area left to search.

For the landowners who don't return the postcards, then have a central organisation make contact with them personally, asking them to either search or grant permission for a search by volunteers/LE.

Just an idea.
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Your idea about sending info. regarding Sherry with a return card asking for search results on their land is a terrific idea!

It would alert those people who may have missed the missing person news

It would definitely cut down on search man hours

It would help in creating an organized, coordinated grid for search data

Information from land owners themselves would be beneficial due to their knowledge of their own land

I might even suggest two searches if possible. When I walk my dog in the regional park right by our house I pick up trash as I go. Today I found items that had been hidden before the rain that had occurred yesterday. In other words, environmental factors...wind, rain, water, animal activity...can change the landscape from one day to the next.
JMO

(Even during my relaxing times when I walk my dog I have WS on my mind!)
 
Fighting back
More than 100 attend self defense seminar in Sidney

Roughly 140 people in Richland County walked away more self aware, more confident and a little more prepared to defend themselves after Saturday’s free self defense seminar.

Like Kathy Deboever, a recent resident to Sidney from Fort Benton, who moved here with her husband to work in the oil field. Deboever said she’s been frightened ever since Sidney High School teacher Sherry Arnold’s disappearance. Immediately after she went missing, Deboever bought a stun gun.

She attended Saturday’s session alone, having heard about it only one day before. “I have a dog that I walk every day, and since this incident happened, it’s woke me up,” she said. “I’m a lot more aware of my surroundings now.”

http://sidneyherald.com/articles/2012/01/24/news/doc4f1f2fda0cc58229460294.txt
 
Jacie Estes said:
Thanks, I'm used to driving on snow but this last fall was really heavy/wet and I've never had a problem like that with the brakes. :) I'm just glad that people got out of the way.
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Oh, no! :) I wasn't implying that you were an in-experienced driver. Just saying we have tons of them here in Phoenix.
 
Eoanthropus Dawsoni said:
Digging depends a lot of they type of soil and moisture content. Good black topsoil will be very solid. Sand or gravel has a lot more give to it. 2011 was a very wet year, so most of the ground, no matter the type, will be difficult digging with hand tools.

But in a year like this things get a bit weird. It has been cold, so ground is froze. But at the time she was murdered the "frost level" was one to two feet. Generally the ground would have been frozen to a depth of five feet or so. Anyway, back to digging. It had been a week of record high temperatures before she went missing. The ground thawed a bit, an open field exposed to sunlight thawing more than grassy areas. So the first inch or two would be relatively easy digging. Then they would have come up against the frozen dirt and that would have been like trying to dig through ice. If they were persistent and chopped their way through that, then the digging would become easier again.
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I just don't see these guys having perseverance as a strong point...nor planning, either ( I love the statement, they couldn't even plan their own breakfast!)...So, I tend to think they dumped the body and covered it with trees, leaves, debris, etc., and got the heck out of Dodge.
JMO
 
Wat-Da-Hek said:
Hello, I am new to the forum and have been reading everyone's insight from the beginning. Living on the ND side of the border and having been a neighbor of Sidney MT for most of all of my life has brought a whole lot of good living to me. This incident has been so devastating for so many people, those close to the family and many, like me, that don't even know the Arnold's / Whited's. Everyone's life has now been changed in so many ways and pray that this can all come to some sort of closure in a timely manner.

That being said I have a couple of things that have come to mind that I would like to share. The vehicle has been confirmed to be a 1992 Ford Explorer. An early 90's ford Explorer "DARK IN COLOR" had been towed from a local eatery in Williston ND on the day the arrests were made. Does anyone recall seeing a vehicle of this description in a place it did not belong on any of the days prior? Also, in researching the area of Parachute, CO, I had come across a couple of Missing Persons cases in the year or two prior to the arrests. One was in Grand Junction which is about 65 miles West of Parachute and the other was in New Castle which is 40 some odd miles East of parachute. In my mind I wonder if either or both of these perp's could be linked to either or both cases which could mean so much more.

CO CO - Jonathan Keith Kelley, 53, Grand Junction, 27 July 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Thank you again for allowing me to post and share and I truly want to see Sherry Arnold found.
Click to expand...

Welcome Wat-Da-Hek! And thank you for the insider information!
:gthanks::welcome::welcome4::Banane37::welcome4::welcome::cupcake:
 
daisy.faithfull said:
Oh my goodness! I'm glad that you're okay! Here is AZ we don't have to worry about dangerous driving conditions, but I do find myself worried about those who don't seem to know how to drive when it actually does rain. :)
Click to expand...


I am glad Jacie Estes is fine, too!

And I know what you mean, Daisy.fathfull! I am more concerned with drivers in the rain, than the rain itself, especially if there hasn't been rain in a while. The build up of oil, dust, etc. makes hydroplaning a very real danger. And too many So CA don't take this into account!
 
Eoanthropus Dawsoni said:
Digging depends a lot of they type of soil and moisture content. Good black topsoil will be very solid. Sand or gravel has a lot more give to it. 2011 was a very wet year, so most of the ground, no matter the type, will be difficult digging with hand tools.

But in a year like this things get a bit weird. It has been cold, so ground is froze. But at the time she was murdered the "frost level" was one to two feet. Generally the ground would have been frozen to a depth of five feet or so. Anyway, back to digging. It had been a week of record high temperatures before she went missing. The ground thawed a bit, an open field exposed to sunlight thawing more than grassy areas. So the first inch or two would be relatively easy digging. Then they would have come up against the frozen dirt and that would have been like trying to dig through ice. If they were persistent and chopped their way through that, then the digging would become easier again.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that her body is probably in a shallow grave, not more than slicing the top layer of sod off, putting her body down, then covering it as best they could with the sod they removed. Plus whatever leaves, branches and brush was easy to reach and looked like camouflage to the two suspects.

I'm basing this on the fact that most homicide victims that are buried are buried in shallow graves, usually less than two feet deep and on the difficulties you point out above.

I would be very surprised to find out that they went through the frost line, if that is what they did.
 
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