My Experience With Borderline Disorder: By Aprilshowers

[simonsmom]

I have mentioned BPD several times as it relates to the behavior we have seen from Casey (and Cindy). My mother is BP and her behaviors played a large part in my siblings suicide. I only broke free of her quite recently. I'm glad you started this thread and very happy that you have found a medication that has helped you.

 

[nursebeeme]

Yes, Nurse, but at least it was your mouth.

Think lower and to the rear for a pathological liar.

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!:clap:

 

[nursebeeme]

bumping this thread

 

[kiki the parrot]

MOTHER OF ALL LIES

Wow, I'm trying to digest all of this... thanks again everyone for sharing your sad, but really honest revelations. I'm learning so much OMG it explains alot--in KC's case (and in my own family).

Have you ever been astounded at how much wrongdoing, heartache and PAIN a person can perpetrate... yet never break the law and still stay out of JAIL? I've been struggling to distinguish between mental illness and evil for some time. There's a history of mental illness in my family. My younger brother committed suicide by jumping off GG Bridge. Not certain but I believe he was dx'd bipolar. Not long after my mother moved out there (to SF) where she squanders thousands on people who assure her it was his karma (nothing she had any part in) that she can still communicate freely w her son and where she is able to see that bridge at least twice/day. (Personally it's taken me the ten years since to even bring myself to visit her in that city.) While we were young she made no secret of the fact she never wanted kids, frequently reminding my two bros and me of this. Oddly she taught in elementary school yet it was evident she couldn't stand anyone's kids. At age five our father left and moved out of state which I couldn't understand. Spent the next 15 years missing him while she drew child support for all three of us, and allowed us to wonder why. Aside from the string of men she dated and brought home, she spent most of her time in theater frequently throwing cast parties at our home. She also took in a series of UofM students offering free room and board so she could be free at all hours. I remember the homesickness of lonely summer camp at an age when a few weeks seemed an eternity. Later in my 20's I visited her in NYC and over beers in Greenwich Vllg., in an irresistably high-drama moment I suppose, she unburdened herself and, w detached fascination, watched my face as she informed me the father I had missed all those years hadn't REALLY been my (OR my younger bro's) father afterall, that we were products of an ongoing affair she had w one of the many married men she'd seen. She forbade me to tell my little bro so he died never knowing the truth. We've always had different beliefs (she still dates married men eg) and core values (she now lives in the child-free world she always wanted, has little relationship w her grandchildren and little interest in my life as they're the heart of it) so we stick to superficial topics. So it isn't surprising I guess that I never really bonded w my mom but there was always something more, that I couldn't quite put my finger on. Hate saying it but almost a fear or loathing--a repulsion maybe you'd call it. Even now it's a painful thing to admit.

[Fast forward more recently after five years of a chronic illness (CNS lupus incl seizures which has made it near impossible to get treatment for a worsening depression since none of my drs want to prescribe antidepressants as many lower seizure threshhold). I usually email my mom but in a really low moment reached out and called her (despondent probably not too strong a word here) and explained about my inability to get treatment for this. She complained to me that the pitch or auditory quality of my cell phone wasn't pleasant to her ear--so I'd have to call her from a different phone. (I explained I had no other long distance service but she was unwilling or unable to consider this.) I guess if I had been calling to chat, timeliness would't have been an issue but as I hung up the phone--now totally depressed--I wondered whether losing one child had changed her at all...]

Last night I was re-reading a book (some of us are slow to catch on, oh dear) by Scott Peck, People of the Lie. He uses case histories to illustrate evil and it's generational influences, it's insidious impact on families--how narcissism, and the willful refusal to tolerate the discomfort of facing our faults--are at it's root. He talks of the stark contrast between the garden variety criminals w dx'd mental illnesses--and the mask of normalcy worn by the evil people who walk among us. He actually goes so far as to say if we define evil properly, it too meets the criteria for disease or sickness. I can see this while realizing there is also personal responsibility, but...

(Before THIS book gets any longer) I AM certain BPD, NPD and even sociopaths are not BORN, they are MADE. And KC may be the "designated" and legal/technical "criminal" of the family here but from limited observation I strongly suspect CA contributed HUGELY to whatever pathology is going on. I have four children, one of whom, my 20 year-old daughter, is the mother of my two year-old granddaughter. So I'm overidentifying, I'm OBSESSED w this whole situation--and pray I NEVER know the pain of losing a child OR a grandchild. I leaned heavily on my daughter when she was far too young, and there was also abuse--by a teen, while poorly supervised at her dad's--in her childhood. I've observed narcissistic traits in my own daughter, though not to KC's extent. But it's becoming clear this mother somehow made KC feel responsible for her mother's feelings long ago. So, GOD FORBID WE were living this nightmare, I pray to God I wouldn't leave my child burdened with this MOTHER OF ALL LIES another day, a prisoner of fear and DECEIT, just so I could selfishly keep her at home a little longer.

Thanks again for everything you all shared, you are some really strong, gutsy, beautiful ladies.

 

[summermood32]

I think she was struggeling with this!
"Numb"

I'm tired of being what you want me to be
Feeling so faithless lost under the surface
Don't know what you're expecting of me
Put under the pressure of walking in your shoes
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

Can't you see that you're smothering me
Holding too tightly afraid to lose control
Cause everything that you thought I would be
Has fallen apart right in front of you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
And every second I waste is more than I can take

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

And I know
I may end up failing too
But I know
You were just like me with someone disappointed in you

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
I'm tired of being what you want me to be
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
I'm tired of being what you want me to be

 

[OneLostGrl]

Wow, I am trying to digest all of this... thanks again everyone for sharing your sad, but really helpful revelations. I am learning so much OMG it explains alot--in KC's case (and in my personal history).

Have you ever been astounded at how much wrongdoing, heartache and PAIN a person can perpetrate... yet never break the law and still stay out of JAIL? I've been struggling to distinguish between mental illness and evil for some time. There's a history of mental illness in my family. My younger brother committed suicide by jumping off GG Bridge. Not certain but I believe he was dx'd bipolar. Not long after my mother moved out there (to SF) where she squanders thousands on people who assure her it was his karma (nothing she had any part in) that she can still communicate freely w her son and where she is able to see that bridge at least twice/day. (Personally it's taken me the ten years since to even bring myself to visit her in that city.) While we were young she made no secret of the fact she never wanted kids, frequently reminding my two bros and me of this. Oddly she taught in elementary school yet it was evident she couldn't stand anyone's kids. At age five our father left and moved out of state which I couldn't understand. Spent the next 15 years missing him while she drew child support for all three of us, and allowed us to wonder why. Aside from the string of men she dated and brought home, she spent most of her time in theater frequently throwing cast parties at our home. She also took in a series of UofM students offering free room and board so she could be free at all hours. I remember the homesickness of lonely summer camp at an age when a few weeks seemed an eternity. Later in my 20's I visited her in NYC and over beers in Greenwich Vllg., in an irresistably high-drama moment I suppose, she unburdened herself and, w detached fascination, watched my face as she informed me the father I had missed all those years hadn't REALLY been my (OR my younger bro's) father afterall, that we were products of an ongoing affair she had w one of the many married men she'd seen. She forbade me to tell my little bro so he died never knowing the truth. We've always had different beliefs (she still dates married men eg) and core values (she now lives in the child-free world she always wanted, has little relationship w her grandchildren and little interest in my life as they're the heart of it) so we stick to superficial topics. So it isn't surprising I guess that I never really bonded w my mom but there was always something more, that I couldn't quite put my finger on. Hate saying it but almost a fear or loathing--a repulsion maybe you'd call it. Even now it's a painful thing to admit.

[Fast forward more recently after five years of a chronic illness (CNS lupus incl seizures which has made it near impossible to get treatment for a worsening depression since none of my drs want to prescribe antidepressants as many lower seizure threshhold). I usually email my mom but in a really low moment reached out and called her (despondent probably not too strong a word here) and explained about my inability to get treatment for this. She complained to me that the pitch or auditory quality of my cell phone wasn't pleasant to her ear--so I'd have to call her from a different phone. (I explained I had no other long distance service but she was unwilling or unable to consider this.) I guess if I had been calling to chat, timeliness would't have been an issue but as I hung up the phone--now totally depressed--I wondered whether losing one child had changed her at all...]

Last night I was re-reading a book (some of us are slow to catch on, oh dear) by Scott Peck, People of the Lie. He uses case histories to illustrate evil and it's generational influences, it's insidious impact on families--how narcissism, and the willful refusal to tolerate the discomfort of facing our faults--are at it's root. He talks of the stark contrast between the garden variety criminals w dx'd mental illnesses--and the mask of normalcy worn by the evil people who walk among us. He actually goes so far as to say if we define evil properly, it too meets the criteria for disease or sickness. I can see this but realize there is also personal responsibility but...

(Before THIS book gets any longer) I AM sure BPD, NPD and even sociopaths are not BORN, they are MADE. And KC may be the "designated" and legal/technical "criminal" of the family here but from limited observation I strongly suspect CA contributed HUGELY to whatever pathology is going on. I have four children, one of whom, my 20 year-old daughter, is the mother of my two year-old granddaughter. So I'm overidentifying, I'm OBSESSED w this whole situation--and pray I NEVER know the pain of losing a child OR a grandchild. I leaned heavily on my daughter when she was far too young, and there was also abuse--by a teen, while poorly supervised at her dad's--in her childhood. I've observed narcissistic traits in my own daughter, though not to KC's extent. But it's becoming clear this mother somehow made KC feel responsible for her mother's feelings long ago. So, GOD FORBID WE were living this nightmare, I pray to God I wouldn't leave my child burdened with this MOTHER OF ALL LIES another day, a prisoner of fear and DECEIT, just so I could selfishly keep her at home a little longer.

Thanks again for everything you all shared, you are some really strong, gutsy, beautiful ladies.

I figured you had a story too, Kiki :blowkiss:

My mom is the type that would cover for me, lie for me, probably even be willing to go to prison for the rest of her life for me if I had ever gone over the edge like Casey did.

We were watching the news the other day and she said to me "As much as I love Tyler (my son), I know that if you hurt him or if he was missing it would have been for a good reason".

What's ironic is that when I was arrested for selling drugs, (it was her Oxycontin and my Klonopin that I was selling) it was she that turned on me. We had been arrested together, for the same thing and while being "questioned" at the police station she caved and turned on me.

So where loyalty may be outragous and feirce on one thing, the next day they may turn on you for something so much smaller. You never know if they are going to love you.. or when or why.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think she was struggeling with this!
"Numb"

I'm tired of being what you want me to be
Feeling so faithless lost under the surface
Don't know what you're expecting of me
Put under the pressure of walking in your shoes
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

Can't you see that you're smothering me
Holding too tightly afraid to lose control
Cause everything that you thought I would be
Has fallen apart right in front of you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
Every step that I take is another mistake to you
(Caught in the undertow just caught in the undertow)
And every second I waste is more than I can take

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

And I know
I may end up failing too
But I know
You were just like me with someone disappointed in you

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
Become so tired so much more aware
I'm becoming this all I want to do
Is be more like me and be less like you

[Chorus]
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
I'm tired of being what you want me to be
I've become so numb I can't feel you there
I'm tired of being what you want me to be

I think she had already struggled with that part years prior- she had progressed past that even. She didn't even know what SHE wanted anymore, I think that part left with Jesse. she couldn't keep even keep her mother apart from herself anymore her mother had emeshed herself into her so much.

ETA: great song BTW- I love linkin park.

 

[OneLostGrl]

The other thing that was revealing to me, kiki, was her first phone covo from jail when she goes from saying "honey" and "love" to her bff (supposed) Kristina to yelling and cursing...like two different people.

I should have prefaced that I have talked out of both sides of my mouth before. However, I think the situation in which she was doing it was very inappropriate.

She is.. she is two different people. She is one person when people do what she wants them to and she is another when they don't.

 

[summermood32]

Sometimes when something happens to you as a child and its bad and you dont understand you act out in many ways! ( Does this make since to anyone) Yes It carries you through adulthood but (a) You can be a Victim or (b) become a stronger person which would make you more protective of your children! Kinda like a Cycle you are in the cycle its up to the person to break the cycle or continue the bad cycle. Make any since?

 

[kiki the parrot]

Quote: The other thing that was revealing to me, kiki, was her first phone covo from jail when she goes from saying "honey" and "love" to her bff (supposed) Kristina to yelling and cursing...like two different people.

Quote: She is.. she is two different people. She is one person when people do what she wants them to and she is another when they don't.

Yes, and yes!! As charming and manipulative as they can be when getting their needs met, when you cease feeding their NS (narcissistic supply), a narcissist will chew you up, and spit you out. I know from firsthand experience: when they're finished using a person, when you finally set a limit and can not give anymore you'll become to the narcissist a useless object--and they will instantly forget every kindness ever shown. There's tremendous need for control, and I noticed myself when that call was first released, KC was vacilating back and forth between flattery and manipulation ("sweetie" and "hon,") and if that was ineffective she switched to intimidation with anger, and back... cue head swivel...

 

[kiki the parrot]

Summermood32: Just reading the lyrics to "Numb" breaks my heart. Author Peck says ironically, sadly, tragically some children learn evil to protect themselves against evil, to survive like a scary garguoyle to guard and keep evil away, SOoo sad. These lyrics are powerful, and fitting.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Quote: The other thing that was revealing to me, kiki, was her first phone covo from jail when she goes from saying "honey" and "love" to her bff (supposed) Kristina to yelling and cursing...like two different people.

Quote: She is.. she is two different people. She is one person when people do what she wants them to and she is another when they don't.

Yes, and yes!! As charming and manipulative as they can be when getting their needs met, when you cease feeding their NS (narcissistic supply), a narcissist will chew you up, and spit you out. I know from firsthand experience: when they're finished using a person, when you finally set a limit and can not give anymore you'll become to the narcissist a useless object--and they will instantly forget every kindness ever shown. There's tremendous need for control, and I noticed myself when that call was first released, KC was vacilating back and forth between flattery and manipulation ("sweetie" and "hon,") and if that was ineffective she switched to intimidation with anger, and back... cue head swivel...

Learned behavior, all.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Quote: I figured you had a story too, Kiki

(Oh One lol... that was just some ancient history, believe me...)[COLOR]

Quote: My mom is the type that would cover for me, lie for me, probably even be willing to go to prison for the rest of her life for me if I had ever gone over the edge like Casey did.

We were watching the news the other day and she said to me "As much as I love Tyler (my son), I know that if you hurt him or if he was missing it would have been for a good reason".

What's ironic is that when I was arrested for selling drugs, (it was her Oxycontin and my Klonopin that I was selling) it was she that turned on me. We had been arrested together, for the same thing and while being "questioned" at the police station she caved and turned on me.

So where loyalty may be outragous and feirce on one thing, the next day they may turn on you for something so much smaller. You never know if they are going to love you.. or when or why.

And that is the nature of the narcissistic, and borderline, parent. The unpredicability of their parenting, and their "love." Subject to whatever need the PARENT may have of the CHILD. REALLY twisted, REALLY confusing, for the child. And a parent who's not put the child's needs first above their own can never have the proper motivation but liable to be harsh or punitive when their child needs empathy--and lenient when their children need them to be firm because it's all about the PARENT. The child learns to walk on eggshells, to anticipate the parent's every mood, to fear rejection... to never risk, feel, or care until they're an empty hollow shell. In addition to licentiousness and no boundaries, there has been shame in KC's life. And a deep insecurity, she's been so coddled on the one hand, so condemned on the other, seriously is there anyone left inside...?

 

[aprilshowers]

Luckily, I'm not a narcissist ... thank God! My mom wasn't either, and the emotional incest was done mostly unknown to her, in a very childlike way.

My mom was VERY childlike .. yet was subtly manipulative in a very small way. I am very fortunate, that she was this way and not a narcicist, and not physically abusive ... actually, she was the opposite, would never let my dad spank me, very protective of me .. and as the books title it, I was "The Chosen Child". Looked good from the outside, wasn't so good on the inside.

Speaking of being 2 different people .. the only way I can see that in me at all, is when I say something to myself .. such as, I like that, and inside my head I answer 'so do I'. That seems strange to me, and shocks me when I do it ... but hey, if that's the only strange way it comes out, that's ok to me.

Lying: I use to lie if it made me get the attention I needed, the love I wanted ... and to be rescued. I never lied just to hurt, manipulate, etc. others. I could take a lie to the extreme, and there are many counselors and psychiatrists I've fooled. I'm not proud of that, but if you ever need me to lie for you, trust me, I'm the best. LOL!

Anything I can shed a light on, ask me ... will be glad to help. I do see allot of the old me, in KC. Some of it is still there, and will always be, but now with maturity and meds ... I can live a pretty normal life.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Luckily, I'm not a narcissist ... thank God! My mom wasn't either, and the emotional incest was done mostly unknown to her, in a very childlike way.

My mom was VERY childlike .. yet was subtly manipulative in a very small way. I am very fortunate, that she was this way and not a narcicist, and not physically abusive ... actually, she was the opposite, would never let my dad spank me, very protective of me .. and as the books title it, I was "The Chosen Child". Looked good from the outside, wasn't so good on the inside.

Speaking of being 2 different people .. the only way I can see that in me at all, is when I say something to myself .. such as, I like that, and inside my head I answer 'so do I'. That seems strange to me, and shocks me when I do it ... but hey, if that's the only strange way it comes out, that's ok to me.

Lying: I use to lie if it made me get the attention I needed, the love I wanted ... and to be rescued. I never lied just to hurt, manipulate, etc. others. I could take a lie to the extreme, and there are many counselors and psychiatrists I've fooled. I'm not proud of that, but if you ever need me to lie for you, trust me, I'm the best. LOL!

Anything I can shed a light on, ask me ... will be glad to help. I do see allot of the old me, in KC. Some of it is still there, and will always be, but now with maturity and meds ... I can live a pretty normal life.

I never had consequenses to any of my actions. My mother fixed every mess I ever got myself into. When I met my husband at 19 years old and moved in with him I had never cooked a meal, done laundry, never even made my own bed.

Like your mother, my mother is very child-like (vulnerable). I don't believe she meant any harm- she loves us more than anything in this world. She needed us, probably more than we needed her! We were all she had... she put us before anything, used us as her excuse for everything. I really believe that if not for us she would have given up years ago. I also believe that my mother did the best that she knew how- I do not fault her and I love her very much. Thank goodness for therapy!

 

[TURBOTHINK]

She is.. she is two different people. She is one person when people do what she wants them to and she is another when they don't.

I thought of this inkblot when I read your post. The inkblot appeared to me to be Casey with two different heads.

 

[txsvicki]

I think Casey was using a form of manipulation by telling Lee that Cindy was right, that she was an unfit mother, a bad daughter, a bad sister, blah, blah. Then said maybe the police should be called, but she only meant that LE should be called about thefts, not about Caylee. To me, she was bringing the attention off of Caylee and making herself seem sympathetic and repentant for stealing. It was all about her at that moment. She knew she'd need all the help she could get when Caylee's disappearance was reported.

 

[wonderer]

I thought of this inkblot when I read your post. The inkblot appeared to me to be Casey with two different heads.

This isn't the thread for this, but I can't help but say that it looks like a misshapen fetus to me. @_@;

 

[aprilshowers]

I see:

A purple frog with antennas

A purple buddah

 

[cacnotcam]

I see:

A purple frog with antennas

A purple buddah

I see a pregnant woman squatting. lol