My view has done a complete 180

[LunaticFringe]

Sorry I hit Submit before I fully replied.You are correct about Michael Carson's polygraph.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

(Above quote was shortened for brevity.)

Damien WANTED to be known as the boogeyman.

Bragging quote from Damien Echol’s:
"I knew from when I was real small people were gonna know who I was, I always had that feeling... I just never knew how they were gonna learn. I kind of enjoy it now because even after I die, people are gonna remember me forever. People are gonna talk about me for years. People in West Memphis will tell their kids stories...It'll be sorta like I'm the West Memphis boogie man. Little kids will be looking under their beds - "Damien" might be under there."


Here is a quote from Damien Echol’s medical record found on the Callahan site:
Reveals a history of abuse as he talked of how he was treated as a child. Denies that this has influenced him stating “I just put it all inside.” Describes this as more than just anger — like rage. Sometimes he does “blow up”. Relates that when this happens the only solution is to “hurt someone”. Damien reports being told at the hospital that he could be another “Charles Manson or Ted Bundy”. When questioned on his feelings he states “I know I’m going to influence the world — people will remember me.”

Did I mention recently that in addition to Damien Echol's rage (which he stated can only be released by "hurting someone") that Damien Echol’s has two incurable mental disorders, bipolar disorder AND schizophrenia, and he doesn't take medication?


Pensfan
________
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

The important part of this information is the word I put in bold. Damien was an arrogant teenager who felt outcast by the society in which he lived. To compensate, he would say things sarcastically (or in a bragging manner) to shock and/or frighten people. Is he bipolar? Is he schizophrenic? I don't know, and I don't trust the "diagnoses" at the time. I would like to see a psychiatric workup of him now. I seriously doubt that either of these conditions would be mentioned. Additionally, you failed to mention that the person that Damien usually "hurt" when he felt that "rage" was himself. He was suicidal, not homicidal.

Pensfan wrote: "You forgot to mention that Michael Carson passed a polygraph stating that there was NO DECEPTION found in his statement to police about how Jason confessed to him. You also forgot to mention that Michael Carson did not have anything to gain by telling police that Jason confessed to him that he (Jason) killed these helpless little boys."

Polygraphs are not admissible evidence in court for a reason. Any sociopath can pass one. Michael Carson gained his "fifteen minutes" if nothing else. Michael Carson went to CA and got in trouble there. You forgot to mention Joyce Cureton, who stated in her Rule 37 testimony that she was told to be unavailable to testify for the defense:

"It was the Sheriff who asked me to leave the county after Paul Ford had asked me to be available to testify at the sentencing hearing."

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/bm_rule37/bm_rule37_cureton.html

 

[Pensfan]

The important part of this information is the word I put in bold. Damien was an arrogant teenager who felt outcast by the society in which he lived. To compensate, he would say things sarcastically (or in a bragging manner) to shock and/or frighten people. Is he bipolar? Is he schizophrenic? I don't know, and I don't trust the "diagnoses" at the time. I would like to see a psychiatric workup of him now. I seriously doubt that either of these conditions would be mentioned. Additionally, you failed to mention that the person that Damien usually "hurt" when he felt that "rage" was himself. He was suicidal, not homicidal.

Pensfan wrote: "You forgot to mention that Michael Carson passed a polygraph stating that there was NO DECEPTION found in his statement to police about how Jason confessed to him. You also forgot to mention that Michael Carson did not have anything to gain by telling police that Jason confessed to him that he (Jason) killed these helpless little boys."

Polygraphs are not admissible evidence in court for a reason. Any sociopath can pass one. Michael Carson gained his "fifteen minutes" if nothing else. Michael Carson went to CA and got in trouble there. You forgot to mention Joyce Cureton, who stated in her Rule 37 testimony that she was told to be unavailable to testify for the defense:

"It was the Sheriff who asked me to leave the county after Paul Ford had asked me to be available to testify at the sentencing hearing."

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/bm_rule37/bm_rule37_cureton.html

Damien was not homicidal? Incorrect.
On the document/application where Damien Echols applied for his social security disability benefits, there are TWO areas where Damien Echols wrote in his own handwriting that he was homicidal. See it here:

http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/1/125.jpg

In two areas/boxes, Damien Echols wrote:
homicidal
sociopathic
manic depression
drug abuse
suicidal
schizophrenic
alcohol abuse

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Damien was not homicidal? Really?

On the document/application where Damien Echols applied for his social security disability benefits, there are TWO areas where Damien Echols wrote in his own handwriting that he was homicidal. See it here:

http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/1/125.jpg

In two areas/box, Damien wrote:
homicidal
sociopathic
manic depression
drug abuse
suicidal
schizophrenic
alcohol abuse

Damien was an arrogant teenager who was living in poverty and struggling to survive. He often said (and wrote) things that were for shock value. That is what I see here. Nothing more. He has killed no one, including Stevie, Michael and Chris. He is basically a gentle soul from whom the State of Arkansas has taken half of his life to this point.

I hope and pray that he can live in peace and happiness from this point forward until he dies a natural death at a ripe old age. I fear for him as too many people in society, like you, seem to want to paint him with a brush of their own insecurities and fears instead of seeing who he is and letting him live his life in peace. He and his two co-defendants are innocent of these murders, and the State of Arkansas knows this or they wouldn't have accepted the face-saving (for the State) Alford Plea and freed these innocent men.

 

[Pensfan]

Damien was an arrogant teenager who was living in poverty and struggling to survive. He often said (and wrote) things that were for shock value. That is what I see here. Nothing more. He has killed no one, including Stevie, Michael and Chris. He is basically a gentle soul from whom the State of Arkansas has taken half of his life to this point.

I hope and pray that he can live in peace and happiness from this point forward until he dies a natural death at a ripe old age. I fear for him as too many people in society, like you, seem to want to paint him with a brush of their own insecurities and fears instead of seeing who he is and letting him live his life in peace. He and his two co-defendants are innocent of these murders, and the State of Arkansas knows this or they wouldn't have accepted the face-saving (for the State) Alford Plea and freed these innocent men.

You can't have it both ways.

Either Damien Echols is an insane liar (You implied that he lied about being homicidal. What sane/rational person would do this?) or when Damien Echols twice wrote that he was homicidal (just weeks before the children were murderer), he was telling the truth.

 

[Pensfan]

He is basically a gentle soul from whom the State of Arkansas has taken half of his life to this point.

Shortened for brevity-

Here is a great reference describing Damien Echols' ungentle soul:
http://www.jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_4.html

 

[Compassionate Reader]

You can't have it both ways.

Either Damien Echols is an insane liar (You implied that he lied about being homicidal. What sane/rational person would do this?) or when Damien Echols twice wrote that he was homicidal (just weeks before the children were murderer), he was telling the truth.

With teenagers, things are not always black and white. He can write that he is homicidal (because he wants to shock and/or frighten) but that does not mean that he is homicidal. It's not an outright lie; it's a defense mechanism. Surely in all of your psychological training you've heard of defense mechanisms, right?

 

[Pensfan]

With teenagers, things are not always black and white. He can write that he is homicidal (because he wants to shock and/or frighten) but that does not mean that he is homicidal. It's not an outright lie; it's a defense mechanism. Surely in all of your psychological training you've heard of defense mechanisms, right?

For the second time in two days on this thread:
Defense mechanisms are unconsciously and consciously used by individuals to decrease anxiety. Damien Echol's action of writing twice on a government document that he was homicidal is not a defense mechanism. Damien Echol's bragging to others that he killed three helpless children is also not a defense mechanism.

Pensfan
______
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[Compassionate Reader]

For insight into the real Damien Echols, the one with the gentle soul, I recommend his autobiography, Almost Home. Here is a preview:

http://books.google.com/books?id=6JMDLZD_HsMC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Pensfan]

Professional insight into Damien Echols:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/gwoods.html

 

[Compassionate Reader]

For the second time in two days on this thread:
Defense mechanisms are unconsciously and consciously used by individuals to decrease anxiety. Damien Echol's action of writing twice on a government document that he was homicidal is not a defense mechanism. Damien Echol's bragging to others that he killed three helpless children is also not a defense mechanism.

Pensfan
______
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

Please note this from an article entitled "15 Common Defense Mechanisms":

"3. Acting Out

Acting Out is performing an extreme behavior in order to express thoughts or feelings the person feels incapable of otherwise expressing. Instead of saying, “I’m angry with you,” a person who acts out may instead throw a book at the person, or punch a hole through a wall. When a person acts out, it can act as a pressure release, and often helps the individual feel calmer and peaceful once again. For instance, a child’s temper tantrum is a form of acting out when he or she doesn’t get his or her way with a parent. Self-injury may also be a form of acting-out, expressing in physical pain what one cannot stand to feel emotionally."

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/15-common-defense-mechanisms/

Damien's writing of the word "homicidal" in that box was IMO a form of acting out as was his bragging about something that he did not do. The thought that he is expressing with these actions is that society doesn't understand him. The example above deals with anger, but the defense mechanism of acting out can be used to express thoughts other than anger, as Damien did.

I will agree that acting out is a childish (the article says primitive) type of defense mechanism. However, I'm not surprised that a teenager used it. I have seen it over and over in my career.

 

[Cappuccino]

All this harping on Damien's mental health is just irrelevant character assassination anyway. I'm sure there was no shortage of people with mental health problems in and around West Memphis at the time, some of whom even had a history of violence against children, (unlike Damien), you can't just point the finger at all of them. You need evidence connecting any given individual to the crime first.

Its a bit shocking to see a mental health professional play to the populist stereotype of mentally ill = dangerous murderer. Most people who work with the mentally ill try and raise consciousness against that stereotype, and rightly so because statistically speaking people with bipolar disorders and/or schizophrenia are more likely to be a danger to themselves than to anyone else.

This crime isn't the product of a disorganised schizophrenic or manic depressive brain anyway. Its a very organised and clean crime scene, its a very sneaky crime, and I would say its the product of someone with a carefully crafted mask of sanity, not some teenage drama queen who changes his name to Damien and wanders around dressed in black.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

All this harping on Damien's mental health is just irrelevant character assassination anyway. I'm sure there was no shortage of people with mental health problems in and around West Memphis at the time, some of whom even had a history of violence against children, (unlike Damien), you can't just point the finger at all of them. You need evidence connecting any given individual to the crime first.

Its a bit shocking to see a mental health professional play to the populist stereotype of mentally ill = dangerous murderer. Most people who work with the mentally ill try and raise consciousness against that stereotype, and rightly so because statistically speaking people with bipolar disorders and/or schizophrenia are more likely to be a danger to themselves than to anyone else.

This crime isn't the product of a disorganised schizophrenic or manic depressive brain anyway. Its a very organised and clean crime scene, its a very sneaky crime, and I would say its the product of someone with a carefully crafted mask of sanity, not some teenage drama queen who changes his name to Damien and wanders around dressed in black.

The phrase I placed in bold above is my primary response to all of the attempts to "prove" that Damien's mental health issues made him a murderer. I can't remember exactly where I saw it, but somewhere Damien has said that, when he felt enraged, he usually took the rage out on himself. If anyone remembers where that statement was made, please provide a link. I'm thinking it was in his autobiography, Almost Home, but I'm not sure.

I, too, agree that all of the harping on Damien's mental health at the time is counterproductive. As many have said before, I don't care if he was as crazy as a bedbug, that doesn't make him a murderer. BTW, I loved the final statement! Yes, Damien, at the time of the murders, was very much a "drama queen" who wanted attention and would often say outlandish things in order to get it. However, being a "drama queen" is not being a murderer.

 

[Pensfan]

Please note this from an article entitled "15 Common Defense Mechanisms":

"3. Acting Out

Acting Out is performing an extreme behavior in order to express thoughts or feelings the person feels incapable of otherwise expressing. Instead of saying, “I’m angry with you,” a person who acts out may instead throw a book at the person, or punch a hole through a wall. When a person acts out, it can act as a pressure release, and often helps the individual feel calmer and peaceful once again. For instance, a child’s temper tantrum is a form of acting out when he or she doesn’t get his or her way with a parent. Self-injury may also be a form of acting-out, expressing in physical pain what one cannot stand to feel emotionally."

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/15-common-defense-mechanisms/

Damien's writing of the word "homicidal" in that box was IMO a form of acting out as was his bragging about something that he did not do. The thought that he is expressing with these actions is that society doesn't understand him. The example above deals with anger, but the defense mechanism of acting out can be used to express thoughts other than anger, as Damien did.

I will agree that acting out is a childish (the article says primitive) type of defense mechanism. However, I'm not surprised that a teenager used it. I have seen it over and over in my career.

Damien Echols write twice that he was homicidal on a government form and this had no capacity to reduce his anxiety. Therefore, it was not a defense mechanism.

Damien Echols bragging that he killed helpless little boys with the potential to fry in the electric chair while unanesthesitized, offered no ability to decrease his anxiety and would have unconsciously and possibly consciously raised his anxiety level. Therefore, his statement was not a defense mechanism; it was bragging.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Professional insight into Damien Echols:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/gwoods.html

Sorry, but this "insight" gives me serious doubts as to the mental health "profession." He interviewed and "examined" Damien after Damien had been on Death Row for 16 years, and he agreed with the assessment of the Social Security Administration that Damien was "permanently disabled" by mental illness. I imagine that, if I had been on Death Row for 16 years, I might "present" some of the same "symptoms" that Damien did. He lost his train of thought during the second day of the examination? Wow! He must be a real wacko!

The rest of this information is equally "damning," especially when you consider that the defense was looking for someone who would say these things in an attempt to have the conviction overturned on appeal. Obviously, since Damien's Rule 37 proceedings resulted in a reaffirmation of the original verdict, Burnett was not very impressed with this treatise, either. IMO, continued insistence on Damien's mental health as being somehow "proof" of his guilt is the act of either a desperate or an incredibly ignorant person.

 

[Pensfan]

Learn about schizophrenia. Neurologists compare schizophrenics' brain damage from one psychotic episode to having a mini stroke because the damage is similar. Dr. George Woods is dual boarded. George Woods, M.D. is a board certified neurologist and a board certified forensic psychiatrist. Learn about schizophrenia and reread Dr. Wood's assessment.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/gwoods.html

Individuals that develop schizophrenia at a young age, like Damien Echols was exhibiting at NINE, have massive loss of brain tissue. Damien Echols was not on schizophrenic medicine. Schizophrenics have damage to their frontal cortex from their psychotic episodes. Because the frontal cortex is also the part of the brain that prevents one from doing things that are rash, a result of this damage is that people with schizophrenia behave in bizarre ways.

If schizophrenia begins in the early teen years (remember Damien was having psychotic episodes at the age of NINE), up to 25 percent of their brain tissue can be lost over a period of about five years. That is very severe and comparable to Alzheimer’s in the degree of damage.
http://www.bri.ucla.edu/bri_weekly/news_080623.asp
__________________

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Damien Echols write twice that he was homicidal on a government form and this had no capacity to reduce his anxiety. Therefore, it was not a defense mechanism.

Damien Echols bragging that he killed helpless little boys with the potential to fry in the electric chair while unanesthesitized, offered no ability to decrease his anxiety and would have unconsciously and possibly consciously raised his anxiety level. Therefore, his statement was not a defense mechanism; it was bragging.

Writing that he was homicidal and bragging about murders that he did not commit are examples of "acting out," which, according to the article I cited above, is a defense mechanism. I am not saying that he did these things to decrease his anxiety. I am saying that he did them as a form of "acting out," which, as above stated, is a defense mechanism. Are you taking issue with the author of the article? He is a mental health professional. Here's a little about the site itself:

"Psych Central is the Internet's largest and oldest independent mental health and psychology network. Since 1995, it has been run by mental health professionals offering reliable, trusted information and over 160 support groups to consumers. We are today's modern voice for mental health information and advocacy and have the broadest online reach and recognition of any mental health network online today, touching the lives of over 1.5 million people around the world every month. "

Again, continuing to try to "prove" that Damien is a murderer by discussing his mental health is IMO just a little desperate. To prove someone is a murderer, you need evidence, not mumbo jumbo about his mental state. The truth of the matter is that there is absolutely no evidence that proves that Damien, Jason or Jessie committed these horrible murders.

 

[Pensfan]

Writing that he was homicidal and bragging about murders that he did not commit are examples of "acting out," which, according to the article I cited above, is a defense mechanism. I am not saying that he did these things to decrease his anxiety. I am saying that he did them as a form of "acting out," which, as above stated, is a defense mechanism. Are you taking issue with the author of the article? He is a mental health professional. Here's a little about the site itself:

"Psych Central is the Internet's largest and oldest independent mental health and psychology network. Since 1995, it has been run by mental health professionals offering reliable, trusted information and over 160 support groups to consumers. We are today's modern voice for mental health information and advocacy and have the broadest online reach and recognition of any mental health network online today, touching the lives of over 1.5 million people around the world every month. "

Shortened for brevity-

For the third time in three days......IT IS NOT A DEFENSE MECHANISM IF IT DOESN'T DECREASE ANXIETY. See the definition of defense mechanism by the man who "coined the term", Sigmund Freud.
http://homepages.rpi.edu/~verwyc/defmech.htm

I would agree that these statements/written recording could be defense mechanisms for MORAL ANXIETY except that there was not any evidence that Damien Echols was experiencing any guilty or shame.

Moral Anxiety : Anxiety which results from fear of violating moral or societal codes, moral anxiety appears as guilt or shame.
http://homepages.rpi.edu/~verwyc/defmech.htm

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I'm just as stubborn as you are. Again, "acting out" is listed as a defense mechanism by a mental health professional in this article:

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/15-common-defense-mechanisms/

Freud may have originally seen it as a way to reduce anxiety, but there have been advances in the field since Freud. Other psychologists and psychiatrists have expanded his original definition (see above). Do you believe that Freud's word is the final word on the matter and that the entire field is stagnant and unchanged since his original theories?

 

[Pensfan]

Ok. I will agree that these two actions by Damien Echols were defense mechanisms.

They were defense mechanisms called narcissism. Bragging about killing the children was from narcissism and writing on a government form that he could kill people (he wrote he was homicidal twice before he killed the three children) was another example of his narcissism.