Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #7 Pam Buckley & James P Freund

[Ozoner]

Because on the first sample I sent in, it came back with much less french than I expected. I waited after the holiday rush and submitted another one, which came back with something higher, like 67%. I logged on to the site for the first time in a few months and now it shows 75%. So, I went from being much less French than I thought, to almost a little more than I expected.

OK! I thought that your 75% French result was your original result; that's why I was confused. My guess would be that they're continually refining their data. I don't think that they mix up people's samples too often—at least I hope that they don't!

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Wait... this says he was found not wearing shoes. I could swear I read somewhere that he was wearing some kind of sandals. If he had not been wearing shoes, then I am less likely to believe they were picked up hitchhiking. And I never really believed they were hitchhiking.

I never believed they were hitchhiking. If anything I'd say it was the other way, that they picked up someone or met someone who betrayed them.

That detailed YouTube video was very good but discouraging to me that it didn't surface until summer 2020, 44 years later. If that info about the fencing and the killer driving several hundred yards onto Locklair before committing the murders had been available in summer 2019, then I would have filmed the Locklair area differently upon visit in late October 2019. Just weird how it worked out.

 

[CJH]

DNA "ethnicity" results are unfortunately not especially useful, because there is significant overlap between populations; the genetic distance between most Western European populations is small. Eurogenes K13 on GEDmatch is especially not very useful. Eurogenes K36 is probably better for giving some rough idea of the ancestral origins of a DNA sample (with the caveat that it doesn't work very well at all for people whose ancestry is an admixture between groups from widely geographically-separated populations); there is a tool for mapping Eurogenes K36 populations, here, that shows a heatmap of genetic similarity. When I run K36 on my own DNA and input the numbers I get this (my ancestry is colonial American, mostly British Isles; majority English, some Irish, Scots and Welsh, lesser amounts of French, German and Dutch):

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Wow, Jock's admixture is pretty much identical to mine. Exactly the same categories, no more, no less. Only very slight percentage differences. It's like looking at the same pie chart.

I am English, with English parents, and only English and Irish ancestors as far back as I can go. 23andme and Ancestry both suggest I'm slightly North African and a bit Scandinavian. MyHeritage on the other hand thinks I'm half Scandinavian, half English, and a bit Greek! Just goes to show that a lot of these algorithms are educated guesswork. Still, Jock having the same admixture to me does suggest British/Irish ancestry.

Yes, as I mentioned the other day British ancestry seems to be represented most commonly in pie charts resembling the Sumter County Does. I referenced United Kingdom in that post, which was kind of sloppy because I didn't mean to exclude Ireland proper. It wasn't until today that I remembered that Ireland is not considered part of the United Kingdom.

In the Grateful Doe subreddit yesterday a woman posted her results, ones which are similar to Sumter County Jane Doe, including a sliver of AmerIndian. Here are the lady's percentages and chart, followed by a link to the thread. She said she is from Mississippi. Her ancestry mixture is heavy Scottish and English, with some Wales and Ireland, plus Germanic Europe:

GEDMATCH

Ancestry

DDP has posted genetic admixtures for the Sumter Does and other Does! : gratefuldoe

 

[CJH]

British ancestry seems to be represented most commonly in pie charts resembling the Sumter County Does

Or not; this is K13 for a French-Canadian from Quebec (this is why I say K13 is fairly useless):

And on edit, K36 map for the same French Canadian person:

 

[ntt1]

Probably the only conclusion you can really draw from the admixtures was that we can likely rule them out as having significant Indigenous ancestry.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that they'll end up being of either French or English descent, though. Hopefully the identification process goes smoothly from here on in. Gotta wonder if IDing one of them will break the case open and lead to a positive for the other.

 

[Ozoner]

Probably the only conclusion you can really draw from the admixtures was that we can likely rule them out as having significant Indigenous ancestry.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that they'll end up being of either French or English descent, though. Hopefully the identification process goes smoothly from here on in. Gotta wonder if IDing one of them will break the case open and lead to a positive for the other.

I wonder whether IDing one of them will shed any light on why they were killed. Personally, I think it was a carjacking by local good-old-boys who figured that it would be easy to get away with robbing and killing them since they were from out of town.

 

[T rex]

I never believed they were hitchhiking. If anything I'd say it was the other way, that they picked up someone or met someone who betrayed them.

That detailed YouTube video was very good but discouraging to me that it didn't surface until summer 2020, 44 years later. If that info about the fencing and the killer driving several hundred yards onto Locklair before committing the murders had been available in summer 2019, then I would have filmed the Locklair area differently upon visit in late October 2019. Just weird how it worked out.

I think several hundred thousand people evacuated the east coast at this time due to Hurricane Belle. I've always thought theses movements could have something to do with this crime.

 

[Ozoner]

I think several hundred thousand people evacuated the east coast at this time due to Hurricane Belle. I've always thought theses movements could have something to do with this crime.

It could be, but if Lonnie Henry was involved, as seems likely, then it's difficult to see a connection. It's possible that the hurricane changed their plans and that they got lost or couldn't find a campground with space available and ended up sleeping in their car by the side of the road. That would have made them easy targets.

I used to take road trips all the time when I was a teenager; I usually slept in my car by the side of the road because I didn't want to pay for a hotel and didn't always want to take the time to find a campground and set up my tent. There were also times when I parked on two tracks in orchards or cornfields—which could have ticked off the property owner. This case makes me think that I was probably rolling the dice with my safety; I probably wouldn't do that now.

 

[branmuffin]

I'm also keeping an eye on Delefield John Doe 1977.

This identification process is helping us practice patience It's tough waiting.

That is so true but at least now it seems like there's a light at the end of the tunnel. It's very exciting to know that these old cases could be solved in regards to their identity. I don't think it will help with solving this case's murders, unfortunately. I've been interested in this one for close to 30 years.

 

[Canaille]

Ha, I’m Cajun and we have strong family resemblances.

I’m sure one day I will run across someone on here that I know or worked with

 

[branmuffin]

The admixtures for both Does show roughly 1/2 North Atlantic origin. Both have about 1/4 Baltic origins also. They both have substantial Western Mediterranean origins as well. They are relatively similar with regard to ethnic origin, although Jane Doe has some Amerindian ancestry. The mixture of peoples suggest that they are from the Americas, as their origins are likely from a culture with immigration from these areas. It is still a very large area. South America, especially Argentina, has many people with a similar profile. Canada and the US are also likely - I am now thinking the most likely. Hopefully they can find a 2nd or 3rd cousin for a starting point.

I found this information found at the link interesting. Especially the first comment after the article.

What is the Baltic States Ethnicity on Ancestry DNA ?

 

[branmuffin]

Just weighing in here as an amateur genealogist. Have also followed the case several years.

One noteworthy part of the DNA Analysis (or ethnicity estimate) is that Jane's DNA shows a small percentage of American Indian ancestry. That's a very strong indicator that she was born in the US, possibly Canada. Most genalogy DNA databases draw their Native American DNA samples from people descended from tribes in the United States, primarily the southwestern US.

American Indian's don't have a history of migrating to other continents to live and raise families. So odds are very strong that Sumter Jane Doe's lineage is from the US. I can't imagine how she could be from a European, South American, Asian or similar region while having a DNA from American Indian ancestry.


JMO

I was reading that the term "Amerindian" is an English word that means "Indians of the Americas" so that admixture could also include Central and South American Indian.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

Gotta wonder if IDing one of them will break the case open and lead to a positive for the other.

I think it's a big possibility that if one were identified the other could be as well, unless they met through traveling.

 

[Betty P]

I was reading that the term "Amerindian" is an English word that means "Indians of the Americas" so that admixture could also include Central and South American Indian.

Yes, its possible. That said, if it were someone from, say Mexico or Central or South America, the odds would be very much against them having a significant majority of their ethnic DNA coming from northern Europe. Remotely possible but extremely rare. That said, I'm going to pause in discussing this particular topic. The answers will probably be revealed before long so there's no point in me belaboring the subject for now.

 

[Tighthead]

Yes, its possible. That said, if it were someone from, say Mexico or Central or South America, the odds would be very much against them having a significant majority of their ethnic DNA coming from northern Europe. Remotely possible but extremely rare. That said, I'm going to pause in discussing this particular topic. The answers will probably be revealed before long so there's no point in me belaboring the subject for now.

Edit

 

[branmuffin]

Yes, its possible. That said, if it were someone from, say Mexico or Central or South America, the odds would be very much against them having a significant majority of their ethnic DNA coming from northern Europe. Remotely possible but extremely rare. That said, I'm going to pause in discussing this particular topic. The answers will probably be revealed before long so there's no point in me belaboring the subject for now.

Here's a link that gives a (very) brief history of Europeans moving to South America. The European makeup of SA countries varies from 97% to the low teens.

Most were of Portuguese or Spanish descent since up until the late 1800's other Europeans were forbidden from emigrating due to Portuguese and Spanish rule. In the early 1900s and up to after WW2 there was a large influx of other Europeans notably Germans to Argentina. So I think it's quite possible the two UIDs are from SA, not likely just based on logistics, but not completely out of the question either.

Europeans in South America.

 

[AliceInPain]

I don't think it's relevant to the Sumter Does, but Googling told me Scandinavian Sami people also shows up as "Amerindian" in K13. I posted in Delafield John Doe's thread, I believe this admixture tool is useful for genealogists like DDP bulding mother/father trees who can see the charts of matches too. For us amateurs (not all of us but me included) it's just a cause of discussion and arguments lol.

I was surprised how similar they are in number of matches. (This to me means they are from the same country that use gedmatch/ftdna equally much, so likely North America) One (Jane) is just a bit more lucky to have that "one" relative that has uploaded their DNA here. My highest match on gedmatch is at 53.9 cMs, lower than hers. I have very straightforward trees and names so I know she's on my paternal grandmother's side already, and my dad's ex-wife has been working on that tree for years. This match lives 20 minutes from me! Don't know her, never heard of her, but if she was left unidentified somewhere I could say exactly who she was in my tree and who her parents were.
Not in my matches are two of my maternal grandmother's brothers who emigrated to Canada and Argentina in the 1940s, and I've been thinking if anything happened to their kids or grandkids where they were left unidentified, I would be the only one on gedmatch knowing who their father was. I don't know these people either. I was close to my grandmother, but they wanted nothing to do with their origins.
There were some interesting things in my half brothers DNA results... looks like his dad was adopted from Scotland/Wales etc after WWII - I'm the only one curious though.
MY DNA is the most boring and expectable, was hoping to find at least some illegitimate kids there, or some Earls with unclaimed estates in the countryside! but no. But, I'll leave my DNA there, it's not my property, it belongs to so many.
Seriously, if you haven't done your DNA, consider it. You could be that one missing link. (imo)

 

[MarziPanda]

That does make me wonder to what extent, if at all, they talk directly to higher matches. I don't have a GEDcom on GEDmatch, because I don't have a biological one to hand. I have one with my parents, but my dad isn't my biological father, so it would be misleading. I have my bio father's, but that leaves out my mum's side.

If I turned out to be a high match, I do hope they'd contact me rather than trying to figure out by themselves that my birth certificate isn't biologically accurate. So how do NPEs/adopted people/donor conceived people change their methods? I guess they'd mean that a high match doesn't necessarily mean a quick result.

 

[AliceInPain]

That does make me wonder to what extent, if at all, they talk directly to higher matches. I don't have a GEDcom on GEDmatch, because I don't have a biological one to hand. I have one with my parents, but my dad isn't my biological father, so it would be misleading. I have my bio father's, but that leaves out my mum's side.

If I turned out to be a high match, I do hope they'd contact me rather than trying to figure out by themselves that my birth certificate isn't biologically accurate. So how do NPEs/adopted people/donor conceived people change their methods? I guess they'd mean that a high match doesn't necessarily mean a quick result.

DDP contacts the DNA matches, not the people in the tree.