Mystery Man Surveillance

[dovebar]

LE is not going to put something into a warrant to a JUDGE that is not factual! No way, no how. They have a career ahead of them and would not risk it.

So, in your opinion, LE put the "hit" into the warrant to put pressure on the parents, thus playing one against each other. I have a question...if their daughter was kidnapped, how would that work? :innocent:

Sure they would - as others have pointed out, cops do it all the time, either because they're corrupt or because they can say, sorry, it was a false hit.

Second, it would only work if one or the other or both hurt the child. LE thinks that's what happened, so that is the playbook they are drawing from. It's hard to investigate a stranger abduction. That's why they are doing what they think is easier. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have worked.

 

[jjenny]

There are plenty of places to stop without driving.

Well, it was a warm night, so maybe he was enjoying the weather and taking a leisurely stroll.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Thank you cathyintexas for starting this thread. I'm glad lisa's parents have attorneys now. Let's bring lisa home.

 

[AngelWings444]

Thank you cathyintexas for starting this thread. I'm glad lisa's parents have attorneys now. Let's bring lisa home.

Yes, that's what Lisa's parents need to bring baby Lisa home, an attorney. :waitasec: Wouldn't talking to LE help? Just sayin..

 

[Karmaa]

LE is not going to put something into a warrant to a JUDGE that is not factual! No way, no how. They have a career ahead of them and would not risk it.

So, in your opinion, LE put the "hit" into the warrant to put pressure on the parents, thus playing one against each other. I have a question...if their daughter was kidnapped, how would that work? :innocent:

If LE thinks that one of the parents did something, they will try to put pressure on them. If they are wrong, it will not work, because the baby has been kidnapped and neither parent did anything.

It is highly unlikely that Lisa was killed in her home. Had she been, and with LE having complete access to the home (which they did even before the SW) it is hard to imagine that they would not have found evidence of that by now. Especially since the parents would have had only 5 hours to kill her, clean up and totally dispose of the body, and be back at the house, all the while not waking either of the boys, attracting attention of nosy neighbors, and if it was just Debbie - doing it all without a car. I have real trouble seeing that. Especially if Debbie had been drinking and was somewhere between impaired and drunk. It just does not make sense, and the timeline is darned near impossible.

 

[3doglady]

The problem is LE hasn't confirmed DB took a poly, nor confirmed she failed the test, LE isn't saying a darn thing to the public or to the media. In fact, they are begging the media to stop with their speculation and rogue investigation. MK interviewed the family extensively. It is the families statements she is referencing. I believe MK has misspoke about LE telling her a darn thing about the poly, especially DB failed it miserably. MK isn't so special that she is the only person LE is speaking too. On this one, I think she misspoke. :twocents: Now, I do believe IF DB took a poly, she did fail it, but I don't believe LE has said a word about it other than, "that's what SHE said", or something like that. :seeya:

No, MK was not referencing the family. She stated numerous times that she spoke directly with LE and she gave a direct quote from them. How do you know what LE has said to the media? I agree that the media has skewed a lot of things. Especially the local media. I have watched MK for yrs and seldom heard her give direct quotes. As I said earlier she's usually very careful to say "our sources tell us." I wasn't privy to her conversation but I have no reason to believe she would repeatedly tell a blatant lie on national tv as you suggest.

 

[jjenny]

If LE thinks that one of the parents did something, they will try to put pressure on them. If they are wrong, it will not work, because the baby has been kidnapped and neither parent did anything.

It is highly unlikely that Lisa was killed in her home. Had she been, and with LE having complete access to the home (which they did even before the SW) it is hard to imagine that they would not have found evidence of that by now. Especially since the parents would have had only 5 hours to kill her, clean up and totally dispose of the body, and be back at the house, all the while not waking either of the boys, attracting attention of nosy neighbors, and if it was just Debbie - doing it all without a car. I have real trouble seeing that. Especially if Debbie had been drinking and was somewhere between impaired and drunk. It just does not make sense, and the timeline is darned near impossible.

What evidence? Not every death involves losing lots of blood. There are plenty of ways a small child can die and not leave physical evidence behind.

 

[yllek]

If LE thinks that one of the parents did something, they will try to put pressure on them. If they are wrong, it will not work, because the baby has been kidnapped and neither parent did anything.

It is highly unlikely that Lisa was killed in her home. Had she been, and with LE having complete access to the home (which they did even before the SW) it is hard to imagine that they would not have found evidence of that by now. Especially since the parents would have had only 5 hours to kill her, clean up and totally dispose of the body, and be back at the house, all the while not waking either of the boys, attracting attention of nosy neighbors, and if it was just Debbie - doing it all without a car. I have real trouble seeing that. Especially if Debbie had been drinking and was somewhere between impaired and drunk. It just does not make sense, and the timeline is darned near impossible.

I think Debbi had a car. Jeremy used his work truck and IIRC there was a car at home. Not that it matters much in your overview, but just to clarify.

Also, I don't know if 5 hours is the amount of time the parents (or anyone else for that matter) would have to disappear Lisa. 6:40 pm is the last time we have any record of anyone seeing Lisa, and that's from Debbi. If Debbi and Jeremy are involved, something could have happened to Lisa from the time they left the birthday party on Sunday all the way up through Tuesday morning. So far, we have no statements from the parents indicating that anybody else saw the baby on Monday. If Debbi and Jeremy are not involved, someone could have snuck in the back while Debbi and her friend were drinking out on the stoop up until Jeremy got home - anytime between 6:40 pm and 3:45 a.m. - no one is reported to have checked Lisa at all after 6:40 pm. That's potentially 9 hours lead time for an abductor.

I presume whomever took Lisa took the cell phones and we don't know if Debbi saw the cell phones any time after 6:40 pm either. We only know she claims to have been drunk and that her neighbor told her she turned off the lights after the neighbor left. Imo, we can't assume whoever turned on the lights is the same person who took Lisa though. There were walking children in the house and Debbi doesn't remember what she did - the lights could have been turned on innocently by Debbi or either of the two boys without them remembering. JMO...

I wish we had more time line details. Whether Lisa was abducted from the home or removed by someone in her family, it would be much easier to put some of the pieces together. I hope LE has filled in some of the gaps and is close to finding Lisa.

 

[AngelWings444]

No, MK was not referencing the family. She stated numerous times that she spoke directly with LE and she gave a direct quote from them. How do you know what LE has said to the media? I agree that the media has skewed a lot of things. Especially the local media. I have watched MK for yrs and seldom heard her give direct quotes. As I said earlier she's usually very careful to say "our sources tell us." I wasn't privy to her conversation but I have no reason to believe she would repeatedly tell a blatant lie on national tv as you suggest.

We can just agree to disagree. I do not believe LE made a statement to MK that said "DB failed her polygraph miserably."

LE does lie to the suspect in a crime, they lie to pit one person against each other, but would they lie to a judge about a dog "hitting" to do a 17 hour search, I don't think so. This search was very extensive and I believe they had to go back to said judge many times to update the warrant.

 

[In da Middle]

What evidence? Not every death involves losing lots of blood. There are plenty of ways a small child can die and not leave physical evidence behind.

Just as the fact that somebody can break into your house and not leave any or enough evidence. Break ins are very rarely solved.

 

[Karmaa]

What evidence? Not every death involves losing lots of blood. There are plenty of ways a small child can die and not leave physical evidence behind.

Well common sense would say that she didn't die of natural causes. right? If she had, then the family would surely have called for help. So, that leaves an accident or murder. Since she would have also called for help if it was an accident, that leaves murder. Now, I don't like to think about this, but killing a 30-lb child is probably not that easy. Unless she was repeatedly abused for a long period of time, it's not likely that she is going to die from child abuse. She was too old to die from shaken baby syndrome, which leaves suffocation. There would be evidence of that on the pillow or the pillow would be missing.

Of course there are many other ways to kill someone, but judging by what others say about her, she was a devoted mother. So if she had killed Lisa, it would have had to be a snap thing, and that means hitting or throwing around, or strangulation, and any of those seem like they would leave evidence.

 

[Nore]

Are we sure the man was African American? I don't remember reading this before...

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Now I could be wrong but I thought the woman looking out the window said he was wearing something black.I saw it on tv, most likely HLN..

 

[jjenny]

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Now I could be wrong but I thought the woman looking out the window said he was wearing something black.I saw it on tv, most likely HLN..

Dark pants.

 

[marge_rita]

Yes, that's what Lisa's parents need to bring baby Lisa home, an attorney. :waitasec: Wouldn't talking to LE help? Just sayin..

:woohoo: Keep on keepin it real AngelWings444.

 

[AngelWings444]

Well common sense would say that she didn't die of natural causes. right? If she had, then the family would surely have called for help. So, that leaves an accident or murder. Since she would have also called for help if it was an accident, that leaves murder. Now, I don't like to think about this, but killing a 30-lb child is probably not that easy. Unless she was repeatedly abused for a long period of time, it's not likely that she is going to die from child abuse. She was too old to die from shaken baby syndrome, which leaves suffocation. There would be evidence of that on the pillow or the pillow would be missing.

Of course there are many other ways to kill someone, but judging by what others say about her, she was a devoted mother. So if she had killed Lisa, it would have had to be a snap thing, and that means hitting or throwing around, or strangulation, and any of those seem like they would leave evidence.

Why would a parent call for help if the child died from natural causes and not an accident? If DB had nothing to do with an "accident", they how would she or anyone else know the cause of death. I would think parents would call in any emergency, natural causes or accident.

 

[marge_rita]

Well common sense would say that she didn't die of natural causes. right? If she had, then the family would surely have called for help. So, that leaves an accident or murder. Since she would have also called for help if it was an accident, that leaves murder. Now, I don't like to think about this, but killing a 30-lb child is probably not that easy. Unless she was repeatedly abused for a long period of time, it's not likely that she is going to die from child abuse. She was too old to die from shaken baby syndrome, which leaves suffocation. There would be evidence of that on the pillow or the pillow would be missing.

Of course there are many other ways to kill someone, but judging by what others say about her, she was a devoted mother. So if she had killed Lisa, it would have had to be a snap thing, and that means hitting or throwing around, or strangulation, and any of those seem like they would leave evidence.

You said Well common sense would say that she didn't die of natural causes. right No, imo common sense doesn't say that.
What about if the baby died from a fall? These people still didn't call 911.
So accidental dead? no 911 call
Natural death? no 911 call
Murder? no 911 call

D , imo did not want LE at her home that night. Probably had something to do with the scent the cadaver hit.

imo

imo

 

[marge_rita]

Why would a parent call for help if the child died from natural causes and not an accident? If DB had nothing to do with an "accident", they how would she or anyone else know the cause of death. I would think parents would call in any emergency, natural causes or accident.

!!eace:

 

[carole]

Well common sense would say that she didn't die of natural causes. right? If she had, then the family would surely have called for help. So, that leaves an accident or murder. Since she would have also called for help if it was an accident, that leaves murder. Now, I don't like to think about this, but killing a 30-lb child is probably not that easy. Unless she was repeatedly abused for a long period of time, it's not likely that she is going to die from child abuse. She was too old to die from shaken baby syndrome, which leaves suffocation. There would be evidence of that on the pillow or the pillow would be missing.Of course there are many other ways to kill someone, but judging by what others say about her, she was a devoted mother. So if she had killed Lisa, it would have had to be a snap thing, and that means hitting or throwing around, or strangulation, and any of those seem like they would leave evidence.

BBM

During the live feed of the search last Wed., I saw pillows (square, I think, didn't look like regular bed pillows to sleep on) taken out to the evidence vehicles. They were in clear evidence bags.

 

[MamaK]

Well common sense would say that she didn't die of natural causes. right? If she had, then the family would surely have called for help. So, that leaves an accident or murder. Since she would have also called for help if it was an accident, that leaves murder. Now, I don't like to think about this, but killing a 30-lb child is probably not that easy. Unless she was repeatedly abused for a long period of time, it's not likely that she is going to die from child abuse. She was too old to die from shaken baby syndrome, which leaves suffocation. There would be evidence of that on the pillow or the pillow would be missing.

Of course there are many other ways to kill someone, but judging by what others say about her, she was a devoted mother. So if she had killed Lisa, it would have had to be a snap thing, and that means hitting or throwing around, or strangulation, and any of those seem like they would leave evidence.

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/tc/shaken-baby-syndrome-topic-overview
Actually, according to this article, shaken baby syndrome can apply to a child up to the age of 5 but is the most common in children under the age of 1. So, Lisa wasn't too young for shaken baby syndrome.

I don't necessarily think that was the case here but it could be. Almost anything is possible at this point. :crazy:

 

[jjenny]

I think it's false premise that a death would necessarily leave evidence anyway. Unless it's a bloody death, the evidence would be on the body. But we don't have a body. I think some people might have been watching too much CSI. It's not so easy in real life.