Nore
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JJenny I agree. All anyone needs is a pillow. (thinking of someone else O/T). If someone really spotted a man carrying her it upsets me. No clothes on the baby, dont need them if baby is dead. I am afraid.
Mystery Man Surveillance
- Thread starter CathyinTexas
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JJenny I agree. All anyone needs is a pillow. (thinking of someone else O/T). If someone really spotted a man carrying her it upsets me. No clothes on the baby, dont need them if baby is dead. I am afraid.
Karmaa
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I think Debbi had a car. Jeremy used his work truck and IIRC there was a car at home. Not that it matters much in your overview, but just to clarify.
Also, I don't know if 5 hours is the amount of time the parents (or anyone else for that matter) would have to disappear Lisa. 6:40 pm is the last time we have any record of anyone seeing Lisa, and that's from Debbi. If Debbi and Jeremy are involved, something could have happened to Lisa from the time they left the birthday party on Sunday all the way up through Tuesday morning. So far, we have no statements from the parents indicating that anybody else saw the baby on Monday. If Debbi and Jeremy are not involved, someone could have snuck in the back while Debbi and her friend were drinking out on the stoop up until Jeremy got home - anytime between 6:40 pm and 3:45 a.m. - no one is reported to have checked Lisa at all after 6:40 pm. That's potentially 9 hours lead time for an abductor.
I presume whomever took Lisa took the cell phones and we don't know if Debbi saw the cell phones any time after 6:40 pm either. We only know she claims to have been drunk and that her neighbor told her she turned off the lights after the neighbor left. Imo, we can't assume whoever turned on the lights is the same person who took Lisa though. There were walking children in the house and Debbi doesn't remember what she did - the lights could have been turned on innocently by Debbi or either of the two boys without them remembering. JMO...
I wish we had more time line details. Whether Lisa was abducted from the home or removed by someone in her family, it would be much easier to put some of the pieces together. I hope LE has filled in some of the gaps and is close to finding Lisa.
Well, I am going on the assumption that the neighbor did, in fact see Lisa that evening. I believe the other kids would have seen/heard an intruder if one came in while the moms were hanging out on the porch, so - if the neighbor did see her, and the kids didn't see an intruder, chances are good that Lisa was not kidnapped (or killed) before 10:30.
Of course, it's possible that the neighbor and Debbie both were involved with the death and cover-up, but that's a real stretch.
Karmaa
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What? How do you know that they would NOT have called if it was an accident, a fall, a natural death?
Why would anyone assume that NOT calling police and trying to get rid of the body, would be the default setting for another person? It seems to me that almost anyone would immediately call 911, if nothing else, to have someone come out to try and revive the baby. Who just automatically thinks "oh crap, I killed the baby - I better think of a way to hide it"?
yllek
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See, that's what makes it hard for me. In all of the interviews with the parents and their lawyers/PI, no one says that the neighbor saw Lisa, so I can't assume that she did (or that she didn't). We know Lisa was reportedly sick, she was put to bed before the neighbor came over, and Debbi closed the doors when the children went to sleep. So, imo, not safe to assume the neighbor saw Lisa.
As for the children, again, we don't know what they saw or heard. The boys reportedly heard something, but it's undetermined when and what they heard. They aren't being asked about it. If they were in their room watching a video, as has been reported, they may not have seen anyone sneak in and take Lisa while mom was out front, especially if their door was shut. Again, we just don't know.
What I do know is that Lisa is still missing and I hope she is found soon...
If anyone else is interested in what is state-of-the-art in making and using composite sketches, there is an interesting article available by Googling "how a composite sketch is made" plus "Philadelphia Inquirer." It seems no longer available on their site but you can read it in cached mode.
It seems to suggest that best sketches are done very early on.
It also accords with my memory of reading (or seeing a TV program?) about how people need to be asked questions, preferably by a human sketch artist. They do not have the visual vocabulary without that questioning. Because their impression of someone is "holistic," they do not usually volunteer details like, "It was a guy with a slanted nose and almond-shaped eyes." Unless, I suppose, the guy had just finished a boxing match and then someone might say, "It was a guy with a big taped nose...." but they might be as likely to say, "He was a big guy," and only later say, yeah, yeah, he had tape on his nose too.
Maybe we need a sketch artist to join in.
It seems to suggest that best sketches are done very early on.
It also accords with my memory of reading (or seeing a TV program?) about how people need to be asked questions, preferably by a human sketch artist. They do not have the visual vocabulary without that questioning. Because their impression of someone is "holistic," they do not usually volunteer details like, "It was a guy with a slanted nose and almond-shaped eyes." Unless, I suppose, the guy had just finished a boxing match and then someone might say, "It was a guy with a big taped nose...." but they might be as likely to say, "He was a big guy," and only later say, yeah, yeah, he had tape on his nose too.
Maybe we need a sketch artist to join in.
dog.gone.cute
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:waitasec: "a mystery man" surveillance ... let's see, almost 3 weeks later ...
:abduction:
MOO ...
:abduction:
MOO ...
Karmaa
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I totally agree with your last line!
As for the rest, I guess it's just a matter of perspective. I tend to think the best about people until I am proven wrong. And, in the beginning, LE said that the family was being completely cooperative and there were "no holes in the story". That leads me to believe the things which the parents revealed to the media were already known by LE - from the beginning - even though we only heard about it later.
So, I will go on assuming the parents are innocent and grieving until I hear otherwise. If I am wrong, there will be plenty of time to curse them, but I don't want to dig in the knife until I know for sure.
Witnesses mentioned him early on. It's only now that it seems to be being taken seriously.
When exactly did LE say there were no holes in the story? I don't recall that at all.
Not the blob. Only now the blob has been discovered. And I don't see anything to indicate that white blob in fact is a man supposedly seen with a baby.
dog.gone.cute
Kyron Horman - Missing Since 6-4-10
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Yes, I remember early on there was an "alleged sighting" ...
But ... in My Opinion, how "convenient" that there is now "surveillance video" being released, as well as witnesses coming forward about these "alleged sightings" -- immediately following:
1. HRD dogs "hit" in DB's bedroom
2. A Search Warrant was obtained
3. An exhaustive 17 hour search of the house
4. Release of the Search Warrant
AND ...
5. Changes in DB's already 'inconsistent' "stories" and "timeline", as well as an "admission" by DB that she was "drinking" the night Baby Lisa went "missing" ...
MOO ... sounds extremely "hinky" ...
MOO ... I do NOT believe an "intruder" took Baby Lisa ...
MOO ...
I didn't say anything about the man on the video - it was clear I was referring to the man sighted in the neighborhood, which I and others have been posting about from the beginning. This witness report was given early on. Please quit mis-representing others' posts.
Someone PM'ed me so I looked back at the date of the Philadelphia Inquirer article, and it is April 25, 2011 - in case anyone else can find a working link.
Someone PM'ed me so I looked back at the date of the Philadelphia Inquirer article, and it is April 25, 2011 - in case anyone else can find a working link.
Considering you were responding to a post about surveillance, I fail to see why it should have been clear you were not talking about the blob. Sure was not clear to me.
It's not convenient, it's highly embarrassing for LE! Which is why Young is so defensive and snide towards those who brought it to light. It shows that there were two sightings of a man with an unclothed baby, and it seems that police did not pull surveillance video from businesses along likely routes between those sightings. They didn't take those sightings seriously. It took media to do it. Whether it will amount to anything remains to be seen.
But here is a question reporters and residents should ask LE: were the woods near that gas station searched? Other areas between the two sightings?
UMfanforever
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Agree 100%. MOO
yllek
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Actually, I thought you were referring to the gas station video too. Your response was to a post by dog.gone.cute and she was referencing "mystery man surveillance" which is the title of this thread, specifically referring to the figure (blob) in the gas station video. Just a misunderstanding as far as I can see. :seeya:
I was responding to the "mystery man" matter in its entirety, as this thread is about. A mystery man was reported very early on by multiple witnesses, and more have come forward. The surveillance video is just the latest, possible piece of the puzzle, although of course, very blurry. To me, it would primarily be of interest as an indication that LE is not taking abductor theories very seriously, or I think they would have pulled all tapes and there would be nothing for media to find.
As a mother, I would want to know why.
If I were a resident of the area, I would be trying to assist in organizing a search. One of the reasons the Anthony case did not do well at trial was that it took a long time to find the body. If Lisa is gone, the sooner her body is found, the better for LE and the DA. Whether the man on the video is of any relevance, the area between the two sightings seems like a prime next search area.
As a mother, I would want to know why.
If I were a resident of the area, I would be trying to assist in organizing a search. One of the reasons the Anthony case did not do well at trial was that it took a long time to find the body. If Lisa is gone, the sooner her body is found, the better for LE and the DA. Whether the man on the video is of any relevance, the area between the two sightings seems like a prime next search area.
mmmagique
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I disagree. Heck, I could read a certain speech profiler I know of and come up with an idea for a different show almost every day.
There are too damn many cases similar to this, many much more disturbing and sensational that aren't getting press.
A drugged out mother put her baby in the washing machine just recently and passed out. You can imagine the ending on this one. Her family had tried to get custody before the baby was born, but it didn't happen. I would think that would be an interesting case to follow and report on. And that's just one.
Sure the press thrives on reporting the news, but I doubt there are many (if any) that hope this case isn't resolved happily and quickly. (this is just my own opinion)
TorisMom003
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Why in the world would LE do that when they couldn't even be bothered to check the empty homes a mere 4 blocks away from Lisa's home? Reports of a homeless man roaming the neighborhood on a bike, maybe they should check the houses that the man could be staying at? But of course not, have to keep the search area in the small perimeter that DB would have been able to walk to instead. I have a very strong feeling that if someone is charged in Lisa's case the DA is going to have an extremely hard time getting a conviction. To many things that can be pointed to as reasonable doubt.
MOO
My concern is about Lisa, not the feelings of her parents. I've run across a couple of deadbeats during my life and they started out as friends. No way would I start out trusting a complete stranger. And even though LE said publicly in the beginning that the parents were being cooperative, according to DB the cops made it clear from the beginning as to their belief of her involvement. I trust the judgment of the cops.
JMO