Mystery: Who removed the memorials? UPDATE The A's and the Milsteads that's who

[Verité]

I'm curious to see what LE does with Lois's complaint. She attempted in the past to get a restraining order against Cindy using false information - and brought a media crew along to film the process. LE is liable not to take her very seriously in this matter as a result.

If the above is accurate--and I'd never doubt your word, dear Chilly--then it borders on more rabble rousing. To initiate provocations against grandparents
who were loved dearly by their little granddaughter is no way to honor that child. Let's let her have Peace, Pax, Paz . . .in whatever language.
I like the Spanish pronunciation of paz which sounds almost like "pause." And that's what's required to truly memorialize this little girl--an occasional
pause for a moment of quiet respect and reflection for all she held dear, even if it includes a quiet blessing for grandparents in turmoil.

Personally I thought those crosses looked makeshift and tacky, and I cringe at the hostlity behind the threat of the person who intends to keep making them.
To place those crosses on private property without the owner's permission is a form of trespassing and probably some other infringement of local statutes.
To place a cross on government property (if that area is owned by the County) has been ruled unconstitutional in San Diego, California, where
there used to be two enormous public crosses in different areas of the County. Not everyone embraces the cross as a symbol of good over evil.
But, if a cross is used, let's make sure it's only with that purpose in mind, to ensure the common good of all who loved Caylee.

 

[lin]

Ok, that I get .My understanding has always been that if you were to apply for one you had to answer honestly the question that says "have you ever been commited to a mental hospital?" and the check was not "seen" on instant background checks. You can buy the guns you just arent supposed to is the way I always understood it. The VA tech shooting opened some eyes when it came to this process iirc. Thanks again for sharing- I guess some states really do care.

FL doesn't require registration and only keeps records of concealed carry permits. The state doesn't know who all has a gun or what they own.

 

[one_hooah_wife]

The one thing that it is important to remember, for me anyway, is that if the A's weren't doing anything wrong (criminally or morally) by removing the memorial ... then there would be no reason for them to be sneaking around under the cover of darkness to do so!!

 

[lin]

Bold mine.

Of course not! Do you really think that Cindy would "let it all hang out" in public? She is a seething mass of anger. I cringe just thinking about what goes on behind closed doors. And what little Caylee must have witnessed during her short life. Cindy is able to "act" the quiet, subdued, grandmother as was witnessed by her and GA's interview on the Early Show recently. Ah, the soft-spoken answers she gave. She is a fake!

Don't forget the numerous reports of CA trashing KC repeatedly to her friends. That's part of it.

 

[Verité]

Then where are the Mils. sleeping?

What possible topical value does this question have to do with the issue of memorializing Caylee Marie Anthony?

 

[lin]

If the above is accurate--and I'd never doubt your word, dear Chilly--then it borders on more rabble rousing. To initiate provocations against grandparents
who were loved dearly by their little granddaughter is no way to honor that child. Let's let her have Peace, Pax, Paz . . .in whatever language.
I like the Spanish pronunciation of paz which sounds almost like "pause." And that's what's required to truly memorialize this little girl--an occasional
pause for a moment of quiet respect and reflection for all she held dear, even if it includes a quiet blessing for grandparents in turmoil.

Personally I thought those crosses looked makeshift and tacky, and I cringe at the hostlity behind the threat of the person who intends to keep making them.
To place those crosses on private property without the owner's permission is a form of trespassing and probably some other infringement of local statutes.
To place a cross on government property (if that area is owned by the County) has been ruled unconstitutional in San Diego, California, where
there used to be two enormous public crosses in different areas of the County. Not everyone embraces the cross as a symbol of good over evil.
But, if a cross is used, let's make sure it's only with that purpose in mind, to ensure the common good of all who loved Caylee.

That assumes that the A's had any idea Lois put up the crosses and/or that Lois knew in advance that it was the A's vandalizing the memorial; the crosses, destroying rosaries etc., and removing the entire memorial as it now appears they did, despite their denials.

Remember, that memorial is basically on a dead end street; it only goes to the school. The A's wouldn't be at the site in the normal course of events; they must purposefully go there where there is nothing but the memorial.

 

[lin]

What possible topical value does this question have to do with the issue of memorializing Caylee Marie Anthony?

This thread was about the mysterious removal of the memorial and the subsequent incident wherein the A's were caught red-handed vandalizing the memorial and then instigating a high speed chase including the Milsteads with some sort of flashing light appearing to be an imitation of LE lights. This high speed chase instigated by the A's and M's began at around 10:30 - 11pm which raised the question of whether or not the Milsteads may be staying with the A's. Hope that clears it up for you and helps bring you up to speed in this thread.

 

[akashana]

I'm not a property appraiser, a surveyor, or anything but when I've seen the site where the memorial was located, the signs, toys, flowers, et al. were all within 15 feet from the roadline (pavement) which in most areas would be the right-of-way or easement area. A NO TRESPASSING sign is clearly posted at about the 15 foot mark from the road. For the most part, when the memorial was at its most swollen with items nothing but an item or two went behind the No Trespassing sign.

One time I did see where someone had thrown or placed a teddy bear or something near the area where Caylee's bones had likely lain. It was further back from the memorial. I would consider anyone roaming that far into someone's property to be trespassing. But I would not consider dropping something on the right-of-way to be trespassing. After all, when the public was dropping off stuff when the memorial started the police were right there in the area and did absolutely nothing to stop it. Had it been illegal they would have put the nix on the situation.

***Bolded by me***

I don't know the law in Orlando, but where I live we are not allowed to post signage, advertisements, etc. in this area. It is considered to be litter and the poster or business or candidate for office can be fined and is responsible for its removal. It's likely that Orlando has a similar code violation status for any unauthorized displays like these crosses. We, too, get the roadside crosses erected at fatal crash sites here. I assume that they are assembled by the family or friends of the deceased, or with their tacit approval. But I know of one case on Interstate 12 where the display was signifigantly larger than most and somebody complained to the DOT and it was removed. I think the Anthonys would be well within their rights to make such a request for removal, and that should take the matter permanently out of their hands. If people wish to memorialize Caylee, they can erect their own on their property. Or they may simply wait until - if and when - any official memorial is designated and make their tributes there. But if this nonsense is allowed to continue, somebody is going to get hurt during one of these incidents. We've already seen that protesters and cross-placers do not always execute the best judgment and allow impressionable minors to be present during these activities, to their detriment (boy with arm slammed in car door). So city code officials and LE need to step up and enforce whatever needs to be enforced before we are faced with yet another tragedy in Orlando.

As always, MOO.

 

[lin]

What possible topical value does this question have to do with the issue of memorializing Caylee Marie Anthony?

This link may help fill you in too:

http://www.wftv.com/news/19637576/detail.html

The article indicates Lois, Denise and two others from St. Cloud. So if their stories all match, I'd say that's a lot of evidence.

 

[MAMABEAR]

What possible topical value does this question have to do with the issue of memorializing Caylee Marie Anthony?

Wow, Verite. Is that you being snarky?----somebody said earlier that the Mils were stayin wid the A's. I just wondered where they were sleeping. Poot!

 

[lin]

***Bolded by me***

I don't know the law in Orlando, but where I live we are not allowed to post signage, advertisements, etc. in this area. It is considered to be litter and the poster or business or candidate for office can be fined and is responsible for its removal. It's likely that Orlando has a similar code violation status for any unauthorized displays like these crosses. We, too, get the roadside crosses erected at fatal crash sites here. I assume that they are assembled by the family or friends of the deceased, or with their tacit approval. But I know of one case on Interstate 12 where the display was signifigantly larger than most and somebody complained to the DOT and it was removed. I think the Anthonys would be well within their rights to make such a request for removal, and that should take the matter permanently out of their hands. If people wish to memorialize Caylee, they can erect their own on their property. Or they may simply wait until - if and when - any official memorial is designated and make their tributes there. But if this nonsense is allowed to continue, somebody is going to get hurt during one of these incidents. We've already seen that protesters and cross-placers do not always execute the best judgment and allow impressionable minors to be present during these activities, to their detriment (boy with arm slammed in car door). So city code officials and LE need to step up and enforce whatever needs to be enforced before we are faced with yet another tragedy in Orlando.

As always, MOO.

I see signs in those areas all the time in FL, including for candidates for Sheriff. It is not illegal here. So far, as far as I know, the only problem and danger has been from the A's going where they say they never go and vandalizing property left by others on property own by others. Maybe they should just stay home?

Folks like to go on and on about the boy with his arm in the door. Well, I saw that video slightly differently. And I notice those same folks rarely mention the dog lady who was sitting quitely when accosted and had her property stolen from her, including her dog's water dish and the water it contained 'destroyed' by dumping it out. Her sign was deliberately damaged, vandalized. To be honest, initially I thought about joining those protesters. And I would have considered taking my children to learn a lesson about democracy and our rights for peaceful protest. I was not the only one that considered it and discussed meeting up there with others. Before I got there, however, the A's were endangering, antagonizing and attacking protesters which caused, imo, protesters of the same ilk as the A's to start attending. And believe me, I'd have gone absolutely nuts if LA had roared into a driveway my child was standing in, regardless if he barely brushed her or not. That was ridiculous and again, endangerment that I don't think I should have to think about in advance unless I ADMIT that the people in that house are just as dangerous as their progeny/sibling. Were they normal, law-abiding people I shouldn't have to be concerned about my child being run over by one of them and have that A family member then state on camera they did it deliberately.

PS: Sorry to take it out on you, akashanna, but there have been a few references tonight and I had to speak up. No offense meant and I do enjoy your posts.

 

[lin]

***Bolded by me***

I don't know the law in Orlando, but where I live we are not allowed to post signage, advertisements, etc. in this area. It is considered to be litter and the poster or business or candidate for office can be fined and is responsible for its removal. It's likely that Orlando has a similar code violation status for any unauthorized displays like these crosses. We, too, get the roadside crosses erected at fatal crash sites here. I assume that they are assembled by the family or friends of the deceased, or with their tacit approval. But I know of one case on Interstate 12 where the display was signifigantly larger than most and somebody complained to the DOT and it was removed. I think the Anthonys would be well within their rights to make such a request for removal, and that should take the matter permanently out of their hands. If people wish to memorialize Caylee, they can erect their own on their property. Or they may simply wait until - if and when - any official memorial is designated and make their tributes there. But if this nonsense is allowed to continue, somebody is going to get hurt during one of these incidents. We've already seen that protesters and cross-placers do not always execute the best judgment and allow impressionable minors to be present during these activities, to their detriment (boy with arm slammed in car door). So city code officials and LE need to step up and enforce whatever needs to be enforced before we are faced with yet another tragedy in Orlando.

As always, MOO.

If the A's had done as you suggest, notified authorities and done everything above board, there wouldn't have been any incident or high speed chase. But they seem to really believe they are a law unto themselves. Or maybe they tried the legal route and found there was no relief that way so just exercised their entitlement/extra special grief.

 

[Verité]

I am sorry Chilly, I must disagree. Respect is not an entitlement... Respect is earned. There is not an Anthony that has done anything in the last 11 months to instill one bit of respect! When one wants to be treated with decency then one must also treat others with decency... again this is not something I have seen an Anthony do.
Over the course of my life I have many times had someone or some group do things that offended me or upset me, BUT I did not go chasing them down, much less do so in a threatening manner. This however is the modus operand of the Anthony family, if they are not getting what they want when they want it how they want it then there is the wrath of the Anthony's to contend with and we have all seen this over and over again. This is not something that I believe to be new behavior from this family this is what they really are and Casey is a perfect example of that. They lie, manipulate, disrespect (everyone in their path), and abuse.
So I would say the Anthonys' are getting much better than they "deserve" and they have not earned the respect of anyone.

I respectfully disagree with your initial statement. There is one Anthony who should not have had to earn respect from any of us, but it has been earned big time!
And she deserves to be treated with respect and all that entails. Despite strong negative feelings against her grandparents, stop with the antagonizing, challenging,
belittling, provoking, despising, hating. Enough is enough!

Now if y'all want to displace that rage and resentment onto me, that's OK, coz I'll just turn my computer to "off."

 

[akashana]

I see signs in those areas all the time in FL, including for candidates for Sheriff. It is not illegal here. So far, as far as I know, the only problem and danger has been from the A's going where they say they never go and vandalizing property left by others on property own by others. Maybe they should just stay home?

Folks like to go on and on about the boy with his arm in the door. Well, I saw that video slightly differently. And I notice those same folks rarely mention the dog lady who was sitting quitely when accosted and had her property stolen from her, including her dog's water dish and the water it contained 'destroyed' by dumping it out. Her sign was deliberately damaged, vandalized. To be honest, initially I thought about joining those protesters. And I would have considered taking my children to learn a lesson about democracy and our rights for peaceful protest. I was not the only one that considered it and discussed meeting up there with others. Before I got there, however, the A's were endangering, antagonizing and attacking protesters which caused, imo, protesters of the same ilk as the A's to start attending. And believe me, I'd have gone absolutely nuts if LA had roared into a driveway my child was standing in, regardless if he barely brushed her or not. That was ridiculous and again, endangerment that I don't think I should have to think about in advance unless I ADMIT that the people in that house are just as dangerous as their progeny/sibling. Were they normal, law-abiding people I shouldn't have to be concerned about my child being run over by one of them and have that A family member then state on camera they did it deliberately.

PS: Sorry to take it out on you, akashanna, but there have been a few references tonight and I had to speak up. No offense meant and I do enjoy your posts.

My Bold

I'm certainly not offended! I like civil debates, and you are more than civil. What I mean is that I don't think it's appropriate to take young or otherwise fragile children to something associated with something as tragic and haunting as a demonstration outside the home of a murdered child. Emotions will be at their highest, frayed nerves and hot tempers will abound on both sides as feelings are equally high. That to me is a recipe for instability and possible violence. Even if it's not directed at the person or minor, there could be collateral damage that is totally avoidable. I took my daughter as a child to political rallies and to at least one peaceful antiwar demonstration when she was probably about 8 or 9. I agree that it's important for kids to understand they have a voice and can use it to right a perceived injustice. But I'm not sure that's something a child needs to witness, to mull over as they lie in bed at night, contemplating the fate of the little girl whose mommy killed her. With the world we have today and all-access media, kids grow up and learn so fast all the seamy sides of life. I tried to teach my child the better things of the world. She wasn't overprotected; neither was she overexposed.

I know we have to skirt this subject broadly, so I'll make my allusion as cryptic as possible to stay within TOS. A child was present on the alleged wild ride. Four angry adults were in pursuit. There are so many different ways that could have ended badly for that child, even if nothing had befallen him or her directly. Simply witnessing an altercation, assault, arrest, being involved in a wreck could have negative repercussions. I don't think it's the place for a child to be.

Re the protesters at the house last summer, I personally was against that because it just seemed mean-spirited. As much as we all can say we were honoring Caylee's memory, none of us knew her in life. The Anthonys loved her; I think that is demonstrated clearly. And they were grieving her loss from their lives, no matter if they knew definitively at that point that she was dead. They knew she was gone, had been gone, it wasn't looking good. I would never heap more pain on somebody in that situation. I would worry about my karma if I did that! I also have to consider the vast inconvenience/inconsideration to the Anthony's neighbors, who simply have the misfortune to own property on that block. I don't think they deserved the circus, which was certainly reinforced by the media.

But that's just me and what I personally would be comfortable doing. I try to remain non-judgmental towards others, and it usually works for me.

 

[MAMABEAR]

Y'know why a polar bear shouldn't flame? She might fall through the crack in her ice. (Ice gonna melt, get it?)

Not really---but hey----if it makes you feel better then, go heady.
:bedtime:

 

[Daylight/1257]

The placing of crosses for whatever reasons, harrassment or heavenly is insignificant. And so is the permission or nonpermission of the woman whose mantra is "because I said so." But...

If using vehicles to block entrance and egress is valid, they have set up a very serious situation for themselves.

 

[lin]

Thanks for your kind response. Without trying to turn this into a thread about the protesters, I'll opine again there was one common denominator in the protests and the memorial turning ugly. That was the A's being where they didn't need to be and doing things they didn't need to do such as destroying memorial offers left by strangers, including rosaries and crosses, and wielding hammers and hoses with their spiteful comments such as 'get off your asses' and calling the media and public names such as "maggots."

I understand they have a lot to be angry about and even more so then. But it would be in their best interests, KC's best interests and would, imo, show much more love and respect for the memory of Caylee to stop the public outbursts, especially the angry ones; the lying; the destruction of offerings left out of love for a little girl they claim to love and their other outrageous antics.

I said earlier in this thread and I'll say it again: I would be humbled and flattered if strangers cared so much about someone I love. I'll add to that sentiment that a million years ago when my oldest was a toddler she was in the hospital and people I barely knew and some from our neighborhood that I didn't even know came, prayed, brought gifts. I was humbled and grateful that they cared so much just from watching us walking through the neighborhood. Had I deliberately put my child in the public eye through television and print at every opportunity and had I consistently asked for donations on behalf of my child and in her memory, I think I would expect those I had asked for help and from whom I received help to be greatly and deservedly very offended for me to repudiate their concern and gifts. I'd be ashamed of myself if I were so callous to those who I called on in my time of need. But then again, I have shame.

 

[akashana]

If the A's had done as you suggest, notified authorities and done everything above board, there wouldn't have been any incident or high speed chase. But they seem to really believe they are a law unto themselves. Or maybe they tried the legal route and found there was no relief that way so just exercised their entitlement/extra special grief.

No, actually that's the corollary to my original point. The Anthonys do not go through the proper legal channels to right what they perceive to be wrongs. And in other circumstances, when they were not under this microscope, maybe that worked for them and that's why they do it. I can't know this so I won't surmise. But we have seen that they don't turn the other cheek and respond through civil or legal action. These people take the bait every time and lash out. To their great detriment. I'm not making excuses for them certainly, but it is what it is. And when whatever you repeatedly do ends badly, it should be time to reflect on the choices you have been making. Prudent people have this self-reflection all the time. Call it growth, wisdom, learning from experience, common sense, whatever. But there is a change to the self-destructive behavior pattern at some point, and a change is made, hopefully for the better. We have thus far not seen any signs of that. The LKL interview was a bit more toned down than some of the others, but basically it was Cindy Lite still being Cindy. People don't understand. Yeah right.

I just think it's strange that with all of their legal eagles, PIs, what have you, to enlighten and counsel them on the error of their ways, nothing has been absorbed or put into practice. BC can't be in accordance with their approach. It only makes his job exponentially rougher every time there is a George meltdown or Mt. Cindy eruption. The Anthonys are allegedly paying this man and the others I mentioned from some source or revenue. It stands to reason that they would accept the advice they are buying. :bang:

 

[lin]

The placing of crosses for whatever reasons, harrassment or heavenly is insignificant. And so is the permission or nonpermission of the woman whose mantra is "because I said so." But...

If using vehicles to block entrance and egress is valid, they have set up a very serious situation for themselves.

According to wftv there were 4 people being chased by 4 people in 2 vehicles. So, I'd say if the 4 being chased have the same story, it's a very solid case. The A's and M's version doesn't hold any water because they aren't authorized to do high speed chases and they weren't trying to get away, they were the aggressors. If they saw a suspicious vehicle at the end of a dead end road not in clear view of their home, is my understanding, they could have and have shown they would have called LE. And I haven't heard anything about them ever calling 911 about any suspicious activity that night. Maybe they did; but I haven't heard about it.

 

[Verité]

That assumes that the A's had any idea Lois put up the crosses and/or that Lois knew in advance that it was the A's vandalizing the memorial; the crosses, destroying rosaries etc., and removing the entire memorial as it now appears they did, despite their denials.

Remember, that memorial is basically on a dead end street; it only goes to the school. The A's wouldn't be at the site in the normal course of events; they must purposefully go there where there is nothing but the memorial.

My quote does not mention the A's or the L's or the M's or single out any person other than Caylee Anthony. Given the tone of the debate on this thread,
I don't perceive loving, caring memorializing of that little girl. I hear negative feelings which cause me to feel badddd so that I start to become
(in MamaBear's words) "snarky." I don't know anything about the afterlife, but I buy into the term "Rest In Peace," and I think we create "eternal" life
for the spirit by all the GOOD we do/say in her behalf.

If Caylee's grandparents get a penalty for car driving, lights flashing, cross removing, yelling, or twirling around like a whirling derbish or whatever. . .
I'm not gonna celebrate. To do so is to disrespect Caylee. Que cera, cera, whatever will be will be, just let it be. Without pouring fuel on the flames.