Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #18

[Bob&Bob]

According to MM's affadavit, she had gone to the beach w/him
and their kids a couple of months ago. It doesn't say if it was for a day, a week.

She had recently returned from vacation, I believe, to Hilton Head for a vacation with family.

She was going to be taking another vacation with MM and family
right around now.

She went on vacation to Nashville last fall.

She was going to go to Orlando on vacation this fall.

She was going to be in a half marathon in Virginia at the end of August.

This doesn't sound like someone who is totally controlled
and doesn't get to go anywhere.

 

[Cheyenne130]

According to MM's affadavit, she had gone to the beach w/him
and their kids a couple of months ago. It doesn't say if it was for a day, a week.

She had recently returned from vacation, I believe, to Hilton Head for a vacation with family.

She was going to be taking another vacation with MM and family
right around now.

She went on vacation to Nashville last fall.

She was going to go to Orlando on vacation this fall.

She was going to be in a half marathon in Virginia at the end of August.

This doesn't sound like someone who is totally controlled
and doesn't get to go anywhere.

They were in the process of splitting up their marriage and he (according to someone) wouldn't leave the house. I don't find it surprising under the circumstances that the one wanting to end the marriage would find any excuse to spend time away from her spouse.

 

[Bob&Bob]

Then why didn't she leave other than to go on a vacation?

 

[EntreNous]

I thought she just got back from vacation?

I think when you live that close to the beach it's pretty typical to go several times during the summer months. I think the vacation with the family was more of a once or twice a year kinda trip. I don't think you can compare the two.

 

[Bob&Bob]

I think when you live that close to the beach it's pretty typical to go several times during the summer months. I think the vacation with the family was more of a once or twice a year kinda trip. I don't think you can compare the two.

Well obviously you can. I just did.

 

[Cheyenne130]

Then why didn't she leave other than to go on a vacation?

And go where?

 

[Bob&Bob]

And go where?

I'm supposed to pick the place?


_______________________
Mr. Rasiej hung up and called Mrs. Edwards back, a process that was visible on the screen to the audience.
He asked whether YouTube might make politicians more aware of not exaggerating the truth because they could be so easily exposed.
"After Bill Clinton, we still had Eliot Spitzer," Mrs. Edwards said as the audience laughed.
The New York Times June 2008
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/the-elizabeth-edwards-show/

 

[Cheyenne130]

I'm supposed to pick the place?


_______________________
Mr. Rasiej hung up and called Mrs. Edwards back, a process that was visible on the screen to the audience.
He asked whether YouTube might make politicians more aware of not exaggerating the truth because they could be so easily exposed.
"After Bill Clinton, we still had Eliot Spitzer," Mrs. Edwards said as the audience laughed.
The New York Times June 2008
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/the-elizabeth-edwards-show/

You suggested she could leave other than to go on vacation. I just figured you had something in mind when you made that suggestion.

 

[EntreNous]

Well obviously you can. I just did.

What I meant was, I'm in TN so it's nothing for us to pack up and head off to the mountains for a few days. It's just a couple of hours away. We tool around in Smoky Mtns. National Park and don't spend a lot of money, just enjoy the outdoors. Much like if we lived near the ocean, we'd be beach bums I'm sure.
It's completely different than going on a full out vacation for a week or more out of state.

Compare if you must but that's like comparing koolaid to champagne.

 

[SusieClue]

Bob,
You are secretly a twitter addict aren't you?

*fyi - i'm not calling Bob a bad name here, I'm teasing him about his use of
short, abbreviated phrases as you would when you TWITTER.
it's actually an art form, and he may have well perfected it.

 

[momto3kids]

Hi mom! Imo, the Court would have required more detail at the full hearing. This was an ex parte emergency application. As I see it, the mother of these children has been murdered, the grandparents have sworn out an affidavit stating that Brad attempting suicide as a teen and threatened to commit suicide in the winter of 2008 (which isn't that long ago).

LE attended (as I understand it) probably to verify that Nancy's death was a homicide and maybe to say that Brad has not been ruled out as a suspect.

The basis for their application was because of Brad's "emotional instability and intense scrutiny which he was facing as a result of the ongoing criminal investigation", there was "substantial risk of bodily injury to the children" while in his custody and that the "children may be removed or abducted from the State of NC for the purpose of evading the jursidiction of the NC Courts."

I think any Judge would have granted this. I personally think he would have been nuts not to.

Hi Jilly....thanks for your response to this.
IF the LE attended that is enough to satisfy me with the reason they were removed, along with the talk of suicide by BC. It was at the Rentz's home IIRC during Christmas he spoke of it.

If Interact was involved with the children prior to the 16th that could also be a possible reason for this action to remove the girls.

All I can say is this Judge heard or had something presented to make this decision on the 16th to take the step she did.

 

[petra]

Then why didn't she leave other than to go on a vacation?

Isn't there something in US/NC divorce law that if you leave the house for other than vacation, it is considered abandonment and your legal rights to settlement are diminished?

Heck, I am still trying to fiqure out how you can sue someone for allienation of affection that is not your spouse-(and even if they are your spouse)

Ridiculous. IMO..But oh well....Reminds me of the myth of the sirens

 

[petra]

Hi Jilly....thanks for your response to this.
IF the LE attended that is enough to satisfy me with the reason they were removed, along with the talk of suicide by BC. It was at the Rentz's home IIRC during Christmas he spoke of it.

If Interact was involved with the children prior to the 16th that could also be a possible reason for this action to remove the girls.

All I can say is this Judge heard or had something presented to make this decision on the 16th to take the step she did.

M2 3..just using this quote.
So the Cooper family where in Canada for the Holidays?
Regarding the passports being taken by BC (supposedly), íf she so wanted, couldn't NC have applied for new ones or Canadian ones for the girls-saying they were lost? as well as faking permission form from BC to take the girls out ofthe country?
Hindsight is great.
Guess no one (except Mom) really felt her life was in danger.
It is just so tragic..

By the way, thank you for your great posts and insight,

 

[momto3kids]

Isn't there something in US/NC divorce law that if you leave the house for other than vacation, it is considered abandonment and your legal rights to settlement are diminished?

Heck, I am still trying to fiqure out how you can sue someone for allienation of affection that is not your spouse-(and even if they are your spouse)

Ridiculous. IMO..But oh well....Reminds me of the myth of the sirens

When I was getting ready to seperate 25 yrs ago my attorney advised me to leave a note where I was going if it was over night, let someone know where I was going to be, and leave items at the home to show I was planning on returning.

 

[maconrich]

I think maybe you're confusing "control" with "submission". No, I don't think Nancy was wrenched into submission by BC. Yes, I think he was controlling.

I think BC was playing mind games with NC.

Thank you -- and same to RC and Fran for bringing up (what to me is) the obvious -- if indeed BC was overly controlling. It seems clear that Nancy wasn't one to go down without a fight and that she had managed to develop and maintain close friendships -- most likely despite BC. And it's likely that each and every step she took toward independence made her life with BC more volatile.

Based on her friends' affidavits, Nancy had been breaking away from Brad over the last several months if not longer. That's something controlling others tend not to take well even if they no longer "love" or even care about the person. Nancy calling Brad out in front of others was a huge sign that she was headed out the door and made her situation even more precarious. Actions like this would be seen as defiance, and I totally understand why her friends and family were worried about her and why JA alerted authorities when Nancy went missing.

Just because NC participated in activities doesn't mean she did so without repercussions; and just because she may not have had obvious physical scars or bruises doesn't mean she wasn't abused. We don't know how Brad treated her when she came home from a vacation or even a visit with friends. Perhaps he was the type that went into silent mode and refused to acknowledge her existence aside from glares and/or under the breath grumblings/threats. Perhaps he did things while she and the girls were gone that he knew would upset her (as was indicated in affidavits regarding the condition of the house when she returned - and it's too bad she didn't take pictures like she thought she should have!). Maybe it was a combination of both, or maybe it was direct threats, ranting and raving and/or physical intimidation.

It absolutely is a warped "mind game" and one that is very dangerous -especially when the victim stops following the rules of the game (with the rules being something it seems BC changed depending on his mood or the time of day). The controller feels their authority is being challenged and punishment, in whatever form, is the usual response. BC taking Nancy off the bank account, credit cards and utility bills can be seen as punishment -- not because Nancy may have liked to shop, but because she was being more assertive and regaining her self-confidence.

The reason for my conclusion is that there was no logical reason to take her name off of the utility account other than the fact it would make it more difficult for her to rent a place of her own, establish credit, and have the utilities turned on if she did manage to find a place to live. There is no other reason I can think of -- it's not like she could have increased their debt by having her name on the account! And the fact that he didn't tell her he'd done these things points to the punishment motive -- she didn't find out until she tried to pay the bill when the water was turned off!!

Yes, this is speculation. Speculation based on the affidavits, the level of concern expressed by her family/friends, and on some of the common traits of abusers...

 

[petra]

I wonder if NC's family was able to pack and take with them some of the girls' belongings and any of the special items belonging to NC.

I believe the house was no longer considered a sealed off crime scene at that time.

 

[momto3kids]

M2 3..just using this quote.
So the Cooper family where in Canada for the Holidays?
Regarding the passports being taken by BC (supposedly), íf she so wanted, couldn't NC have applied for new ones or Canadian ones for the girls-saying they were lost? as well as faking permission form from BC to take the girls out ofthe country?
Hindsight is great.
Guess no one (except Mom) really felt her life was in danger.
It is just so tragic..

By the way, thank you for your great posts and insight,

I will check to who put it in their affidavit..I think it was one of NC friends.
That is the reason I put IIRC. I know I have read it a few times.

I found it in JA affidavit #6i, I also believe it is mentioned in others, because NC got no present was mentioned in someone else's. Christmas seemed to not be the happiest.
Also the Rentz's stated winter 2008, which could mean NC & BC stayed in CA after the New Year. IDK

 

[Jess]

M2 3..just using this quote.
So the Cooper family where in Canada for the Holidays?
Regarding the passports being taken by BC (supposedly), íf she so wanted, couldn't NC have applied for new ones or Canadian ones for the girls-saying they were lost? as well as faking permission form from BC to take the girls out ofthe country?
Hindsight is great.
Guess no one (except Mom) really felt her life was in danger.
It is just so tragic..

By the way, thank you for your great posts and insight,

The young girls would have American passports. Even if they could have applied for Canadian ones, BOTH parents would have to sign.Heck, if one parent wants to take the children cross border shopping, a notarized letter must be produced to show they have the permission of the other parent. It is my belief that Nancy was trying to do everythinglegally.

 

[petra]

quote from maconrich--


The reason for my conclusion is that there was no logical reason to take her name off of the utility account other than the fact it would make it more difficult for her to rent a place of her own, establish credit, and have the utilities turned on if she did manage to find a place to live. There is no other reason I can think of -- it's not like she could have increased their debt by having her name on the account! And the fact that he didn't tell her he'd done these things points to the punishment motive -- she didn't find out until she tried to pay the bill when the water was turned off!!

Yes, this is speculation. Speculation based on the affidavits, the level of concern expressed by her family/friends, and on some of the common traits of abusers...


Excellent point...and the respackeling over finished painting--just childish.
And so frustrating, little ways to get back at someone....

 

[petra]

The young girls would have American passports. Even if they could have applied for Canadian ones, BOTH parents would have to sign.Heck, if one parent wants to take the children cross border shopping, a notarized letter must be produced to show they have the permission of the other parent. It is my belief that Nancy was trying to do everythinglegally.

Yes, you are right. They would be dual and both parents would have to sign.

Nancy sounds like a far better person than I am. She was trying to do it legally, I see that now.

Guess my own reaction reflecting on this, would be to stoop to lower levels of integrity!