Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #27

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Stubb's questioning on the Celine issue was so specific and contained multiple questions, each building on each other, concluding with the final question, "do you know/believe Celine to be an honest/truthful person?" that I saw that as a clear sign that TS has something that proves the exact opposite from what Brad asserts. IMHO, they would not have 'gone there' if they didn't already have something in their back pocket.

I've heard it said that an attorney 'doesn't ask a question he doesn't know the answer to.':waitasec:

Guess Brad hasn't heard that one and thought he'd get out of his PERHAPS little tryst with regard to 'Celine.':rolleyes:

It'll be interesting IF Brad DID in fact 'spend the night' in the same room with Celine.:bang:

JMHO
fran
 
I think BC stated in his deposition that HM is the one who called Nancy. IIRC, he had to come home from work to deny the affair because of her phone call.

Interesting...............BC was able to go home from work to deny the affair,............yet when NC was having a miscarriage, she had to call a taxi. :mad:

Go figure,
fran
 
It's true we do not yet know what evidence (forensic) may exist to link Nancy to her murderer. There may not be a clear smoking gun in this case...we shall have to see. Other wife killers have been successfully convicted even when there's been no 'smoking gun.' It doesn't mean there isn't some good evidence in this case--we are not privy to it at this point if it does exist.


But it goes beyond that. There is no evidence that events did not happen the way BC said they did on the morning of the 12th. Forget everything else but the morning of the 12th. What has been presented to show that he didn't wake up at 4:30 due to Katie being fussy. That NC didn't also wake up. That he didn't start doing laundry. That she didn't send him to the store for milk at 6:00. That she didn't send him back to the store when he got home for detergent. That she didn't call him and tell him to also pick up juice. That she didn't leave the house under the premise of going jogging while he was upstairs. That he didn't clean the floors because NC was upset that he didn't do it while she was gone. That he didn't go out and go looking for her. Etc., etc. etc..


What has been presented so far that says his story couldn't have happened the way he said it did on the morning of July 12th?

Now Jason Young is a different situation...he hasn't spoken to law enforcement, so we don't have his side. But we do have evidence of him leaving the hotel and not returning...and also evidence of a vehicle similar to his being seen in the driveway early that morning. That is completely different.
 
I have been so proud of so many of you and how smart you are and how excellent this website is, that I wanted to share WS with the world and especially with some of the GOLO posters who I felt were basking in ignorance and being rude. I have seen posters come here with a rude, one-liner comment like they did on GOLO and end up turning into more mature conversationalists with respectful commentary. I guess it is true that for the most part, people who post there are sticking up for Brad, and those on here tend to think him guilty, although I have seen both points of view on each. I have absolutely no problem with anyone with a different point of view; it's the people I mentioned before that I had hoped could be educated. It didn't occur to me that the people on this board would not want them here. Sorry about that.

JMFLU, I actually think that there is no problem with your approach. :) I believe Sleuthy has mentioned that everyone has to do what they think is important and I really agree with that. WS also encourages everyone to participate. Everyone has a different approach.

I think that dialogue is very important and websleuths provides a forum where this type of dialogue can take place in a way that it never could on GOLO. Please don't feel bad about this at all. You are taking the time to explain alternative perspectives, but you won't change everyone's point of view. Look at it this way -- in a way your are acting as a translator and this is a very important role.
 
I have been so proud of so many of you and how smart you are and how excellent this website is, that I wanted to share WS with the world and especially with some of the GOLO posters who I felt were basking in ignorance and being rude. I have seen posters come here with a rude, one-liner comment like they did on GOLO and end up turning into more mature conversationalists with respectful commentary. I guess it is true that for the most part, people who post there are sticking up for Brad, and those on here tend to think him guilty, although I have seen both points of view on each. I have absolutely no problem with anyone with a different point of view; it's the people I mentioned before that I had hoped could be educated. It didn't occur to me that the people on this board would not want them here. Sorry about that.
jmflu, I think you have a true passion for justice and that you want folks to be more open minded. And I commend you for trying as hard as you have to get the GOLO people to meet somewhere in the middle as far as having a respectable debate. I also don't mind them coming over here; there are no restrictions on who reads these threads.

Please don't take it personally that not all of us want to tangle on that site. You are doing a good thing and I don't want to take that away from you. Keep it up for all of us. In the meantime, I will be right here debating and learning where I am more comfortable.
 
<snipped>

Now Jason Young is a different situation...he hasn't spoken to law enforcement, so we don't have his side. But we do have evidence of him leaving the hotel and not returning...and also evidence of a vehicle similar to his being seen in the driveway early that morning. That is completely different.

Do those circumstances alone make him (JY) a murderer beyond a reasonable doubt ? I don't see how.

I wanted to point out, in case you did not spend 7 plus hours watching the deposition that Brad stopped talking to LE on the 15th of July, which turns out to be the same day Nancy's autopsy was done, the same day the status of the case changed from a missing person to a homicide. Since that time he has not gone to LE headquarters to give a statement and in the deposition his lawyer even argued that Brad could not agree to do so when asked by Alice Stubbs if he would. There is also an affidavit from a detective which clearly says Brad has not exactly been cooperative with respect to the murder investigation.

So this does leave me wondering, why did the cooperation stop when it was ruled his wife was indeed murdered, which was before the search warrant, before the Ex Parte filing ? Is this in reality any different than Jason Young ?
 
JMFLU, I actually think that there is no problem with your approach. :) I believe Sleuthy has mentioned that everyone has to do what they think is important and I really agree with that. WS also encourages everyone to participate. Everyone has a different approach.

I think that dialogue is very important and websleuths provides a forum where this type of dialogue can take place in a way that it never could on GOLO. Please don't feel bad about this at all. From one point of view, in a way your are acting as a translator and this is a very important role.

That's very nice of you, Anderson. I appreciate it especially coming from one of the posters I admire!!
 
jmflu, I think you have a true passion for justice and that you want folks to be more open minded. And I commend you for trying as hard as you have to get the GOLO people to meet somewhere in the middle as far as having a respectable debate. I also don't mind them coming over here; there are no restrictions on who reads these threads.

Please don't take it personally that not all of us want to tangle on that site. You are doing a good thing and I don't want to take that away from you. Keep it up for all of us. In the meantime, I will be right here debating and learning where I am more comfortable.

You kick butt, reddress. Thanks for your comments!
 
Why is it so unacceptable to wait for LE to do its job?

<respectfully snipped>

I don't think that it is unacceptable to wait for LE to do its job. I also haven't noticed that general view on the board. :confused:
 
Do those circumstances alone make him (JY) a murderer beyond a reasonable doubt ? I don't see how.

I wanted to point out, in case you did not spend 7 plus hours watching the deposition that Brad stopped talking to LE on the 15th of July, which turns out to be the same day Nancy's autopsy was done, the same day the status of the case changed from a missing person to a homicide. Since that time he has not gone to LE headquarters to give a statement and in the deposition his lawyer even argued that Brad could not agree to do so when asked by Alice Stubbs if he would. There is also an affidavit from a detective which clearly says Brad has not exactly been cooperative with respect to the murder investigation.

So this does leave me wondering, why did the cooperation stop when it was ruled his wife was indeed murdered, which was before the search warrant, before the Ex Parte filing ? Is this in reality any different than Jason Young ?


No, those circumstances are not enough to convict Jason Young...which is probably why he hasn't been arrested. But it's enough for me to believe that he is guilty.

We do have Brad's side of the story because he gave a 7 hour deposition giving his side, plus an affidavit giving his side. As for his cooperation with law enforcement, I see where they are saying he isn't being cooperative, but they haven't said that they've asked him for additional statements that he is refusing to give. That haven't said how he is refusing to cooperate. Also, given that the sole focus of the investigation appears to be on him, it's quite probable that his lawyers are telling him not to speak to law enforcement. He would be wise to listen to his lawyers. If I was in Brad's shoes (the focus on a murder investigation was on me), I probably would have pulled a Jason Young on not spoken to law enforcement at all. I doubt they are looking for his help to find someone else...they are looking for him to slip up so they can bury him.
 
Wow! Wral doesn't have it up yet, but I can't wait to read it. Thanks for pointing this out, AM. Now we know Jennifer's real last name.

ETA: "In her affidavit, Jennifer Windsor Ball said Brad Cooper was emotionally abusive, mentally cruel and creepy.

Windsor Ball said she and Brad Cooper dated from September 1997 to December 1998."

I thought the one that might call in would be the one
he said he was with for a year or two but he never
did remember her name.

A lot of women don't like that kind of thing.
 
Do those circumstances alone make him (JY) a murderer beyond a reasonable doubt ? I don't see how.

I wanted to point out, in case you did not spend 7 plus hours watching the deposition that Brad stopped talking to LE on the 15th of July, which turns out to be the same day Nancy's autopsy was done, the same day the status of the case changed from a missing person to a homicide. Since that time he has not gone to LE headquarters to give a statement and in the deposition his lawyer even argued that Brad could not agree to do so when asked by Alice Stubbs if he would. There is also an affidavit from a detective which clearly says Brad has not exactly been cooperative with respect to the murder investigation.

So this does leave me wondering, why did the cooperation stop when it was ruled his wife was indeed murdered, which was before the search warrant, before the Ex Parte filing ? Is this in reality any different than Jason Young ?

It was almost an 'ah-ha' moment when Brad said he'd need to talk to his lawyer about answering LE's questions and in the next question Ms. Stubbs brought out his comments that he's 'helping with the murder investigation by answering LE's questions,' or some such thing. :slap:

Am I wrong? or was today supposed to be NC/BC's 8th wedding anniversary? Did he say Oct. 13, 2000 was when they got married?

Just wonderin',
fran
 
No, those circumstances are not enough to convict Jason Young...which is probably why he hasn't been arrested. But it's enough for me to believe that he is guilty.

We do have Brad's side of the story because he gave a 7 hour deposition giving his side, plus an affidavit giving his side. As for his cooperation with law enforcement, I see where they are saying he isn't being cooperative, but they haven't said that they've asked him for additional statements that he is refusing to give. That haven't said how he is refusing to cooperate. Also, given that the sole focus of the investigation appears to be on him, it's quite probable that his lawyers are telling him not to speak to law enforcement. He would be wise to listen to his lawyers. If I was in Brad's shoes (the focus on a murder investigation was on me), I probably would have pulled a Jason Young on not spoken to law enforcement at all. I doubt they are looking for his help to find someone else...they are looking for him to slip up so they can bury him.

I believe item 3 makes this quite plain. There have been requests for him to come into the station to give a statement and he has refused - to date. The affidavit was completed 9 October.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/news...26782-Affidavit_of_Det._George_G._Daniels.pdf
 
Someone on GOLO just suggested maybe BC forgot he murdered Nancy.

Now wouldn't that be consistent!!!
 
I forgot reading that, so thank you. It is possible that his lawyers are not allowing him to talk to detectives.

I can't recall if LE has asked him recently to come down to headquarters. Anyone known when they last asked him?
in his deposition, seems like they did ask him at one point to come down (while he still had the kids), and he responded that he would prefer to do it at another time if possible, (since he had the kids at that point).

Not sure if they've asked him recently [ but of course, certainly if they did, I would expect his attorneys to either advise him to decline, or to at the very least accompany him.. ]
 
I forgot reading that, so thank you. It is possible that his lawyers are not allowing him to talk to detectives.


This would be good advice - the lawyers telling him not to talk with LE.
 
I don't think that there has been enough evidence released to convict him. In fact - we've seen little evidence, really. We have only seen things related to the custody hearing and we've been able to glean opinions from that. We've painted a picture of what it was like in that relationship to the best of our ability based on witnesses, depositions, affidavits, etc. More like educated guesses - hypotheses.

We've asked questions, we've bounced ideas, we've brainstormed on scenarios - most likely similar to what the attorneys and LE have done, but they have the advantage of more privileged information.

The custody matter is the most bizarre twist in this entire situation - it's the civil before the criminal - and the evidence required to make a decision is only a preponderance and not beyond a reasonable doubt. So - it potentially is a harbinger of public opinion prior to a trial.

So - if a civil matter would find that brad did it based on 51% sure, and (for the sake of argument) a criminal matter would require something more like 95% (leaving 5% for reasonable doubt) I would be in the slightly more than 51% camp, but surely not enough to convict him in a court of law.

I've said before - and I am believing this more and more, that this was premeditated. call it a gut feeling, or whatever - but - based on his personality assessment from others, as well as his never mentioning when he planned to get Nancy her $300 (that was DUE ON FRIDAY and she was angry about), that things may have settled down enough that she stayed and was not afraid, that at first he said to go to Canada and then he changed his mind, and even after a going away party they were living in the home and the separation was not moving quickly - I think he eased up and decided that she'd not be getting a penny more from him.

The $300 weekly allowance pushed me over the edge. The day before her death, Nancy was mad it was late - shouting at him over the phone (or at least voice raised, all according to him). While also according to him she said he didn't need to come home from work, wouldn't the logical thing be to say "but you better have it when you get home" as a follow up before hanging up, or on that second phone call when he called her back during that argument? He stopped and GOT BEER for the party, but didn't swing by the bank? There's a Wachovia everywhere... He went to the Teeter to buy some things TWICE Saturday AM (wasn't this type of stuff supposed to come out of her $300???) and STILL didn't go to the bank? Wouldn't she have REALLY wanted it for the weekend? With him off to play tennis at 9 / 9:30 - she's surely have wanted it before he left, right? With this being such a bone of contention - she just didn't mention it again? How about before her run - i.e. "do you have my money?" or - "you better have it when I get back, because I need it so I can do things today"? Nancy was VERY focused on getting the money she was owed - you see this a recurring theme even in his deposition - she "deserved" an expensive necklace, or the $9000 painting or the BMX X5, etc. She simply would not have stopped talking about the money after she was so pi$$ed about it on Friday. He didn't have her money because he knew he was done giving her any. At the very least - she brought it up again on Friday night, and it was the catalyst for the murder. The core theme of this relationship seems to be money - who's got it, who's entitled to it, how much the neighbors think you have, what you can 'afford', who's it is, who's gonna have any after the separation, etc., and I believe is the main factor in Nancy's death. Sadly.

Again - the above is my gut feeling - but it is based on the depositions and the affidavits from BOTH SIDES and the picture my mind has painted with regard to their relationship.
 
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