Nancy Grace 10/24/08

[mom4321]

I did a lot of digging about George Anthony's life in Ohio. He was a Detective with the Trumbull Ohio Sheriff Dept for a little over 10 years. I tried contacting the Sheriff to see if he was indeed in homicide but never got any answers. He supposedly had the opportunity to resign before he was to be fired.

fired for what ?

 

[cyberborg]

IIRC, the docs today said that it was pepperoni and mushroom that they "decomped". I couldn't believe that they had to list that, but I suppose that had to since we know the pizza theory will come up! I don't know if that is the same kind of pizza that was in the trunk. So strange!

There is your problem, they should have used squirrel nuggets and sausage pizza for the decomp testing.

 

[MD MOMMY]

Do we know that she "enjoys sex" or does she use it as a means to an end?

Well, we do know that her birth control method is less than stellar.

 

[DotsEyes]

So KC bought a cross at JCP. What significance is this, if true?

I already addressed this on another thread, but used 2.5 days as the decomp.status. Now, using 2.6 days, we back track a bit.

If the "borrowed" shovel was used to move Caylee's body we have to look at both the 18th and the 19th of June as BB can not recall which of these days he loaned the shovel to KC.

Let's say the shovel was borrowed at 1:00pm on the 18th. 2.6 days puts Caylee's death back to about 10:30 - 11:00 pm on June 15th, while KC was on the phone all night and GA is lying about seeing them both on the 16th. Only 48 hours, (2 days) would have passed between his seeing them and the borrowing of the shovel. In this scenario, the shovel would have been used to transport the body from the yard on the 18th to the trunk for further immediate disposal.

If the shovel incident happened on the 19th, then the time of death would be between 10:30pm and 11:00pm of the 16th, when she was at TonE's - lending credence to the death occurring IN the trunk and the body being moved from the trunk to the backyard on the 19th, then moved at a later date to another location.

I do not know whether the recently released records indicate that the body was in the trunk for 2.6 days or just briefly in the trunk 2.6 days after death.

However, the hair which matches the A maternal DNA and which shows death banding can only be the hair of Caylee for obvious reasons.

I read that many of you are worried that the defense will be able to knock the forensics apart and clear KC of all charges. Calm yourselves down. There is NO reasonable explanation for Caylee being in KC's trunk, dead, that does not implicate KC in her death. If we then look to the "how to make chloroform" computer searches on KC's computer and the forensic test results which reveal extraordinary amounts of chloroform in the trunk, we have premeditation. If we then look to the behavior of KC post 6/16, i.e., the lies, the thefts, the partying, the new friends, the Diary of Days message and then explanations she gave to LE on July 15 & 16, we have her trying to hide something from everyone, i.e., conciousness of guilt.

It sickens me to see the video of Caylee at the nursing home, knowing she had only a few more hours to live.

When CA and KC were in the car, driving around, I will bet that CA said something like, "we have your car and it smells like a dead body, we know you were not in Tampa because you car was in the tow lot for the last 15 days, we know you stole from Amy and Grandpa and me. Tell me what happened, the truth, or I will call the police right now." When KC refused to change her story about the Nanny, CA made the call. It wasn't until Lee got through to KC the reality that when the police showed up they would make her produce Caylee that she came up with the kidnapping story. Remember when CA overheard KC crying, as in having broken down to Lee, she thought a confession had come out about Caylee's death, "What have you done!?" As CA has stated from DAY1, KC would always break down and finally tell the truth when ever she was confronted long enough. Then KC sprang the kidnapped story on CA and she just went for it, like an overboard boater to a life-ring. It gave her the hope that her intuition and 5 other senses did not.

At some point even that false hope faded and we hear the poor woman cry out, "I can't lose another one".

Poor GA is torn between his love for his daughter, wife and granddaughter and the truth he holds inside. He even contemplated suicide to end his pain.

They are victims here. If they lie to repoprters about what they believe and say things like "the body in the trunk was not my granddaughter's" I just feel sympathy for them. With that line GA tells us he knows there was a body in the trunk and has ripped a hole in the "animal, pizza and 2 dead squirrels climbed under the hood" (how that happens is a mystery) as believable explanations even to the family.

I can not imagine having a daughter kill my beloved baby granddaughter and then waking up to the international media on my lawn, digging into every personal aspect of our lives and airing it on tv.

Why should the minister not visit KC in jail? He is there for spiritual support and guidance, to lead her in prayer and to tell her that Jesus loves her no matter what sins she may have ever committed. It is his duty and calling to minister and who needs it more than people in jail? If he is passing messages to the family, I am sure that it is things such as "I am doing okay. Tell them I love them but not to come visit because the tv crews will follow and our conversation will end up on the nightly talk shows. I have everything I need and even some money in my commissary account, so tell them not to worry about me." I really do not think she is passing information about the location of Caylee, or anything of substance, to the parents through the minister. She trusts only Baez.

As for the privileged communication between client and lawyer - it will never be shared with anyone. KC can confess to JB and he still can't talk. As long as he doesn't subjorn perjury, he is doing what lawyers do. Who the he** would go to a lawyer if their communications were not held in the strictest of confidence? Every lawyer holds tons of secrets about people. There are people included in that confidentiality such as paralegals, secretaries, other lawyers in the firm, firm accountants, etc. I would suggest that the information that the A's get from Baez relates to filings, status on motions, etc.

 

[njustice]

At some point even that false hope faded and we hear the poor woman cry out, "I can't lose another one".

In my opinion there are two things going on with the Anthony's:

A. Caylee being alive gives them the strength to move on with their lives. If they do not give up hope that she is alive, they can use all of the horrible energy pouring through their lives and put it toward searching for their grand daughter - it gives them a purpose. Without that, imagine what they would go through, if all of the other circumstances weren't enough.

B. I don't necessarily think with Casey it's about "losing another one" - though I appreciate your point of view. I think it is that they just cannot come to terms with the fact that their own daughter is capable of something so heinous, and I'd have to say, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes and I can't promise I wouldn't react the same way.

Even though I am angry at them for enabling their daughter, I feel tremendous compassion for these people. If they give in and say Caylee is dead, it must be like giving up on their grand daughter, failing her. No matter how frustrated I am with them, they did not deserve this - not to lose a child, not to be dragged through the muck

 

[DotsEyes]

The miscarriage story sounds like KC drama. She saw some guy who dumped her and hurt her, got mad and started crying. When no one could understand why she would cry about a guy that she knew so briefly, she made up the miscarriage story. Ah! Here comes the sympathy. She has explained her unusual emotional behavior as being justiifed under the circumstances. KC thought they bought it.

There are no medicals records of a miscarriage anywhere to back up this storyand although she may not have told her parents about another pregnancy, she would surely tell a friend. Plus, I do not believe for a minute that KC was not using birth control - the last thing she wanted was another baby.

 

[MD MOMMY]

So KC bought a cross at JCP. What significance is this, if true?

When CA and KC were in the car, driving around, I will bet that CA said something like, "we have your car and it smells like a dead body, we know you were not in Tampa because you car was in the tow lot for the last 15 days, we know you stole from Amy and Grandpa and me. Tell me what happened, the truth, or I will call the police right now." When KC refused to change her story about the Nanny, CA made the call. It wasn't until Lee got through to KC the reality that when the police showed up they would make her produce Caylee that she came up with the kidnapping story. Remember when CA overheard KC crying, as in having broken down to Lee, she thought a confession had come out about Caylee's death, "What have you done!?" As CA has stated from DAY1, KC would always break down and finally tell the truth when ever she was confronted long enough. Then KC sprang the kidnapped story on CA and she just went for it, like an overboard boater to a life-ring. It gave her the hope that her intuition and 5 other senses did not.


Baez relates to filings, status on motions, etc.

Bolded by me..

LA also states that CA asks KC "WHO TOOK HER" which IMO prompted KC nicely to blame the Nanny.

 

[Thinaire]

I made it until after the cross comment from Padilla. I got my "new bit of info" for the night and shut it off. I got tired of yelling at the TV too! It's fine for Nancy to have on all the defense-minded folks because she can challenge them and make it remotely interesting. Jane just lets them all run all over her and had it been a longer show we would have been into high-flying speculation that aliens had abducted little Caylee. When the realms of nonsense are entered into I get real irritated.

O please don't get irritated Theonly! Your avatar scares the crap out of me! :chicken::chicken::chicken::chicken: Patty McCormack, the original bad seed...

 

[Blink34]

Re: miscarriage "story"



I don't know. She cried about the alleged miscarriage on May 25, 2008 (in fact the only time I've really heard about Casey crying and getting totally upset about something). I got the impression from some of her friends that have come on here at WS that they did not believe the miscarriage story.

I really do not think she even had a miscarriage. I can just see the defense pulling this bit of trivia out of their hats to try and explain the decomp in the trunk (though it would not fit in the 2.5 day of decomp time frame, nor would it fit in with the hair evidence as a fetus would not have a long fully grown hair, if any hair at all).

Never happen. She claims to have a miscarriage the day after she meets boytoy dujour? Gawd. It's like a grotesque, evil think tank these people have.

 

[LCoastMom]

I wouldn't put it past the defense but would a jury believe this? So they'd have to believe she miscarried in the car trunk or placed the fetus there coincidentally with Caylee's disappearance? :waitasec:

The 11 week fetus that is about the size of a couple peanut m&ms, and doesn't have hair so much as it is covered in down, scaled to size.

I believe the cells would be obviously human fetus vs Caylee's being human child.

I don't know this 100%, I've been out of school a long time, but if memory serves this wouldn't work.

 

[LCoastMom]

So KC bought a cross at JCP. What significance is this, if true?

I already addressed this on another thread, but used 2.5 days as the decomp.status. Now, using 2.6 days, we back track a bit.

If the "borrowed" shovel was used to move Caylee's body we have to look at both the 18th and the 19th of June as BB can not recall which of these days he loaned the shovel to KC.

Let's say the shovel was borrowed at 1:00pm on the 18th. 2.6 days puts Caylee's death back to about 10:30 - 11:00 pm on June 15th, while KC was on the phone all night and GA is lying about seeing them both on the 16th. Only 48 hours, (2 days) would have passed between his seeing them and the borrowing of the shovel. In this scenario, the shovel would have been used to transport the body from the yard on the 18th to the trunk for further immediate disposal.

If the shovel incident happened on the 19th, then the time of death would be between 10:30pm and 11:00pm of the 16th, when she was at TonE's - lending credence to the death occurring IN the trunk and the body being moved from the trunk to the backyard on the 19th, then moved at a later date to another location.

I do not know whether the recently released records indicate that the body was in the trunk for 2.6 days or just briefly in the trunk 2.6 days after death.

However, the hair which matches the A maternal DNA and which shows death banding can only be the hair of Caylee for obvious reasons.

I read that many of you are worried that the defense will be able to knock the forensics apart and clear KC of all charges. Calm yourselves down. There is NO reasonable explanation for Caylee being in KC's trunk, dead, that does not implicate KC in her death. If we then look to the "how to make chloroform" computer searches on KC's computer and the forensic test results which reveal extraordinary amounts of chloroform in the trunk, we have premeditation. If we then look to the behavior of KC post 6/16, i.e., the lies, the thefts, the partying, the new friends, the Diary of Days message and then explanations she gave to LE on July 15 & 16, we have her trying to hide something from everyone, i.e., conciousness of guilt.

It sickens me to see the video of Caylee at the nursing home, knowing she had only a few more hours to live.

When CA and KC were in the car, driving around, I will bet that CA said something like, "we have your car and it smells like a dead body, we know you were not in Tampa because you car was in the tow lot for the last 15 days, we know you stole from Amy and Grandpa and me. Tell me what happened, the truth, or I will call the police right now." When KC refused to change her story about the Nanny, CA made the call. It wasn't until Lee got through to KC the reality that when the police showed up they would make her produce Caylee that she came up with the kidnapping story. Remember when CA overheard KC crying, as in having broken down to Lee, she thought a confession had come out about Caylee's death, "What have you done!?" As CA has stated from DAY1, KC would always break down and finally tell the truth when ever she was confronted long enough. Then KC sprang the kidnapped story on CA and she just went for it, like an overboard boater to a life-ring. It gave her the hope that her intuition and 5 other senses did not.

At some point even that false hope faded and we hear the poor woman cry out, "I can't lose another one".

Poor GA is torn between his love for his daughter, wife and granddaughter and the truth he holds inside. He even contemplated suicide to end his pain.

They are victims here. If they lie to repoprters about what they believe and say things like "the body in the trunk was not my granddaughter's" I just feel sympathy for them. With that line GA tells us he knows there was a body in the trunk and has ripped a hole in the "animal, pizza and 2 dead squirrels climbed under the hood" (how that happens is a mystery) as believable explanations even to the family.

I can not imagine having a daughter kill my beloved baby granddaughter and then waking up to the international media on my lawn, digging into every personal aspect of our lives and airing it on tv.

Why should the minister not visit KC in jail? He is there for spiritual support and guidance, to lead her in prayer and to tell her that Jesus loves her no matter what sins she may have ever committed. It is his duty and calling to minister and who needs it more than people in jail? If he is passing messages to the family, I am sure that it is things such as "I am doing okay. Tell them I love them but not to come visit because the tv crews will follow and our conversation will end up on the nightly talk shows. I have everything I need and even some money in my commissary account, so tell them not to worry about me." I really do not think she is passing information about the location of Caylee, or anything of substance, to the parents through the minister. She trusts only Baez.

As for the privileged communication between client and lawyer - it will never be shared with anyone. KC can confess to JB and he still can't talk. As long as he doesn't subjorn perjury, he is doing what lawyers do. Who the he** would go to a lawyer if their communications were not held in the strictest of confidence? Every lawyer holds tons of secrets about people. There are people included in that confidentiality such as paralegals, secretaries, other lawyers in the firm, firm accountants, etc. I would suggest that the information that the A's get from Baez relates to filings, status on motions, etc.

I believe you have nailed it as close as any of us can, with what we know and I believe you have hit the nail on the head regarding the way the family runs. They are victims in this mess and deserve our sympathy, not scorn.

 

[RR0004]

:waitasec: Whatever!

He said the exact opposite a few weeks ago BEFORE he became a member of the CA team. I remember NG asking him that very question!

He was also asked about human decomp vs animal decomp and he said there could never be any mistaking one for the other!

Well, if he said it on tape, can the prosecution play it at trial for all to hear? That would be a Kodak moment IMO.

 

[RR0004]

I believe you have nailed it as close as any of us can, with what we know and I believe you have hit the nail on the head regarding the way the family runs. They are victims in this mess and deserve our sympathy, not scorn.

So how are they helping Caylee when they lie on national tv? How is this helping to put the focus on her when THEY put themselves out there in tv land lying about pretty much everything? How is this helping to get at the truth about where their precious granddaughter is right now? This isn't about finding Caylee, this is about protecting Casey...and has been from the beginning. Sorry, I've heard one lie too many. The science is out now...or at least some of it...and still they will refute it.

 

[RR0004]

Well, the bolded portion alone would exclude Casey from this diagnosis! Good article though

I've heard this before, but in a different way. They may seek these experiences out, but derive no pleasure from them...or is that a different diagnosis?

 

[nancy botwin]

I've heard this before, but in a different way. They may seek these experiences out, but derive no pleasure from them...or is that a different diagnosis?

The psych expert on NG tonight actually prompted me to completely stop watching haha. He sounded, IMO, like a moron. Casey's like the opposite of schizoid. -- Schizoids are REALLY averse to being around others and prefer isolation. Casey can't deal with being alone. Schizoids aren't positively affected by praise or attention. Casey needs attention more than oxygen!

 

[aprilshowers]

Second verse, same as the first.

I'm Henry the 8th I am ... Henry the 8'th I am ... I am

Sorry, couldn't resist :crazy:

 

[manatee]

I can't but roll my eyes at kobi.

I agree with all of you on Kobi but realize that everything he has said on NG shows can be used by the prosecution to question him under oath....it's will all come back to haunt him

 

[Pink Panther]

The psych expert on NG tonight actually prompted me to completely stop watching haha. He sounded, IMO, like a moron. Casey's like the opposite of schizoid. -- Schizoids are REALLY averse to being around others and prefer isolation. Casey can't deal with being alone. Schizoids aren't positively affected by praise or attention. Casey needs attention more than oxygen!

Sounded to me like he's already signed up with the defence!

MOO

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Casey is wearing a silver looking cross in some of the surveillance tapes. I think it was the Bank of America one. Then you see some of the media footage from outside the Anthony home and Cindy is wearing it later. From my observation (which could be wrong)...

so what kind of cross could she have purchased? a mother's cross w/ Caylee's birthstone, what about mother daughter crosses? Is it possible that Caylee was buried w/ a smaller matching cross to one KC owns.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

off the wall..... who has a miscarriage and then throws it in the trunk?

the kind of girl who kills her daughter and throws her into the trunk.
i work in women's health, you would not believe the things i hear and see. obviously, putting a fetus in the trunk is weird and a stupid defense (one this team just might try).