NANCY GRACE, Thursday, 12/18/08

[TURBOTHINK]

Thank you, Turbo. If the meter reader actually did smell something, which is what the reports seem to indicate, wouldn't the dogs have also smelled it, even from a certain distance? How would a dog react if he got wind of a scent but couldn't get through the brush to hit on it?

I agree, I don't have much faith in Gale's dogs either.

If mine smelled it, he would get to it come hell or high water, and be dragging me tying to hack the underbrush, BUT.......he was not there and we don't know when the dogs were there. We don't even know if there were any cadaver dogs in that area period.

I am thinking there were no cadaver dogs ever there because I do believe they would have found her. Even if it had been underwater, I am sure LE's dogs are cross trained in that area with all the lakes.

I cannot find anything about them ever being there. Was that a mistake on the part of LE? Maybe, but then again, Orlando is a big area and they were searching everywhere they could. That was not the only murder or the only LE case.

 

[mitzi]

No you're not the only one.

Please no one shoot me for asking this, but am I wrong or do her children have extremely large heads? I haven't been around babies in ages, maybe they all do.

Chilly, I am with you on this. They are not super attractive children, but hopefully, they will grow into their heads! :crazy:

IMO

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I read that the meter reader did not see the bag in August, only reported a foul odor and didn't seem right.

I had also read that there was a report, cadaver dogs searched, animal remains were found and, the area was considered cleared. They did not search further.

Seems like LE was not coping well with tips and this was bungled because they felt the animal remains discovery was it -- so dismissed.

Where did you find the report about the cadaver dogs? I have been searching for over an hour trying to find that.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Chilly, I am with you on this. They are not super attractive children, but hopefully, they will grow into their heads! :crazy:

IMO

Many times twins' heads are larger than their bodies for a while, because of they way they grow in the womb. They will grow into them.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Attorney Richard - dogs alert even if body covered in water. Police said they put the dogs directly in that location (says him).

Seems like everyone has something to say about this area now that Caylee has been found. If they knew that she was there before now why didn't they get out there and find her? I think to many people want their 1 minute on the news or something. Forensics will be able to tell how long she was there, etc so all of these people should just be quiet.

 

[cyberborg]

Psst-JMO but they have the body in the trunk of the car in Casey's possession. Not in the possession of the phantom nanny. What, did ZFG store Caylee in Casey's trunk and let her decompose? Then drop her in the animal grave yard of the Anthony's? Breathe everyone...

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Exactly!!! To run with the theory that TB is floating, that someone dumped the body there while KC was in jail and this supports the kidnapper (ZFG) -- requires that the Defense can successfully throw out the forensics from the car, both the hair with death band AND air samples, as well as anything that ties the remains with the house.

The Nanny must have had access to the house and car without KC knowing, when she was in possession of the car. Requires a MAJOR conspiracy theory.

 

[Indigo]

I read that the meter reader did not see the bag in August, only reported a foul odor and didn't seem right.

I had also read that there was a report, cadaver dogs searched, animal remains were found and, the area was considered cleared. They did not search further.

Seems like LE was not coping well with tips and this was bungled because they felt the animal remains discovery was it -- so dismissed.

I read the same things, cyberborg. Just reporting what I heard on NG and hope I heard it correctly. We're sure to get plenty of conflicting reports before this gets cleared up.

 

[scandi]

From what distance can a cadaver dog sniff out a body?

Hi Chilly, I don't know the distance, but have studied this very subject in the Madeleine McCann case.

Simplified version: A person's specific Death Scent is purely chemical, and every person has an individual scent unlike any other person as every body is different chemically.

From the minute of death this scent is created and starts to be emitted as the body enters initial decomposition. And within approx 1 1/2 to 2 hours, this Death Scant can be sniffed by a Recovery dog.

This scent travels in waves, layers so to speak that float and waft through the air in layers, moved by the air currents and then falling gently down as they are heavier than the air itself.

First a chemical smell will be sniffed by the dog, entering his very complicated nose sensory system, then in a bit another of the same will enter his nose. He will move to travel in the direction from whence came that scent, and then as the scent particles increase in number, the dog hones his senses and follows the trail.

Soon the scent is floating down thru the air to him at a steadier pace, and at some certain point, That's It. He is at ground base as the complex scent molecules joined together as a unit hit all the parts of his complicated nose. There he is at the site where the dead body lays in repose, or where a corpse or something that has been in physical contact with the corpse is discovered or has even been placed there at one time. He alerts. And the strength of his alert depends on the strength of the scent.


That is a really simplified version. Dogs are amazing and they never lie. They like to eat, and food is a reward for a job well done!~



xox


ETA: Chilly, do we know that the Orlando police specifically brought cadaver dogs in to search these woods before the body was found?

On Nancy's show it was brought up that because of Hurricane Fay {Aucust 20 is when that hit} cadaver dogs were in that area. I think Nancy pointed out they might not have been brought to that specific site.

I have watched Cadaver dogs work, and that alone is a complicated process. Even the best, Eddie from the Suffolk PD doesn't always go right to the scent as scents have degrees. They might go back and forth, around the scent as their nose picks up on it, and then suddenly WHAM BAM, their nose is flooded with the scent and they alert in the way they have been taught.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

In retrospect...my "hinky meter" was up with the way the body was found and the fact that we haven't heard the meter reader's name this past week and how long it has taken to give ID to the remains. Still believe it was all KC...but still was this just a guy who's beat was in the A neighborhood and was an "amateur sleuther" from the area?

I don't think there is a thing strange about this man. I believe he "felt" something wrong in that area, and followed his instincts like many of us would have done. Every time I passed that area, I would have to get out and look if I had that feeling. I have seen that instinct pay off in so many cases, I would never discount that ability.

 

[mitzi]

It depends on the wind, the ground factor and a number of things. The problem I have with the "cadaver dog" story checking that area, I believe the dogs were dogs the psychic Gale took and they are not trained.

I can find NO reference to any certified cadaver dogs being in that area. I have been reading for an hour looking for it and all I find about it even on obscure web sites is the reference to Gale's dogs.

We search in grids, I don't know how other teams search. When we were there in November, the areas we were in were so heavy it took machetes to get 10 ft at a time and although the dogs could navigate better than us, even they had a terrible time. We had paw cuts, leg cuts, an eye cut, and numerous other things with the dogs which prevented us from covering large areas at a time. We "MIGHT" and I say might have covered that area of woods in a week's time if we did it correctly. It really depends on how large the area is as compared to the photos and how steep and thick it was.

It seems so simple to say "the dogs should have found her", but the truth is the terrain you saw in the videos where people walked in fields was not what most searchers or dogs had to search. Dogs could have been very close, but not got a scent because the the wind turned or even because the bag had very little smell at that time, or that bag may have had lime in it. Who knows? But, it is not as simple as everyone makes it sound.

Also TURBO, I recall reading somewhere that Gale's searches are sometimes not in what you'd call any pattern, and she doesn't seem to cover the whole area, just goes in briefly in an area, and then leaves. But she still says the area was covered.

 

[Bobbisangel]

So meter reader had been re-assigned after August, then was just recently re-assigned to this area again, so he got curious and went in looking, and found what he found.

So he lied and didn't really stop there because he had to pee? Did he call 911 in August? If he saw the body there in August he should have.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Where did you find the report about the cadaver dogs? I have been searching for over an hour trying to find that.

According to what was said on NG, LE did not send anyone out after the meter reader called in the second time because cadaver dogs had already searched the area.

 

[Pattymarie]

Many times twins' heads are larger than their bodies for a while, because of they way they grow in the womb. They will grow into them.

Ummm....slightly off topic and not in a very pleasant way...

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Hi Chilly, I don't know the distance, but have studied this very subject in the Madeleine McCann case.

Simplified version: A person's specific Death Scent is purely chemical, and every person has an individual scent unlike any other person as every body is different chemically.

From the minute of death this scent is created and starts to be emitted as the body enters initial decomposition. And within approx 1 1/2 tp 2 hours, this Death Scant can be sniffed by a Recovery dog.

This scent travels in waves, layers so to speak that float and waft through the air in layers, moved by the air currents and then falling gently down as they are heavier than the air itself.

First a chemical smell will be sniffed by the dog, entering his very complicated nose sensory system, then in a bit another of the same will enter his nose. He will move to travel in the direction from whence came that scent, and then as the scent particles increase in number, the dog hones his senses and follows the trail.

Soon the scent is floating down thru the air to him at a steadier pace, and at some certain point, That's It. He is at ground base as the complex scent molecules joined together as a unit hit all the parts of his complicated nose. There he is at the site where the dead body lays in repose, or where a corpse or something that has been in physical contact with the corpse is discovered or has even been placed there at one time. He alerts. And the strength of his alert depends on the strength of the scent.


That is a really simplified version. Dogs are amazing and they never lie. They like to eat, and food is a reward for a job well done!~

xox

GREAT SIMPLE EXPLANATION !!!!!

I am going to save that for future use to explain to people how Casper works if that is okay with you.

 

[Koozit]

Psst-JMO but they have the body in the trunk of the car in Casey's possession. Not in the possession of the phantom nanny. What, did ZFG store Caylee in Casey's trunk and let her decompose? Then drop her in the animal grave yard of the Anthony's? Breathe everyone...

:clap::clap::clap::clap:
Oh Thank You

I am on my last nerve with all of the latest speculation about someone putting the body in the area after the storm's

 

[panthera]

In retrospect...my "hinky meter" was up with the way the body was found and the fact that we haven't heard the meter reader's name this past week and how long it has taken to give ID to the remains. Still believe it was all KC...but still was this just a guy who's beat was in the A neighborhood and was an "amateur sleuther" from the area?

Larry King had all of 5 min. of coverage on his show, and talked about a grey colored bag being seen by this worker, but months later he finds the black bag. So it seems he didn't actually find the remains the first time (in August). It does seem weird though that it would be him who finally did call in the tip that led to her being found. MOO

 

[Pattymarie]

I don't think there is a thing strange about this man. I believe he "felt" something wrong in that area, and followed his instincts like many of us would have done. Every time I passed that area, I would have to get out and look if I had that feeling. I have seen that instinct pay off in so many cases, I would never discount that ability.

I agree that there isn't anything strange....what I DID notice is the long week of not reporting the identity of the body and absolutely no ID of the guy who found it. Thought, that in this high profile case that that was a little strange. Maybe they were investigating his credibility before they reported it. But I DID notice the time lapse.

 

[chicagofa13]

KC is in Jail playing cards & eating .."Pork Skins"

She also got a sketch pad and colored pencils. Wonder what she is planning on drawing?

 

[mitzi]

Many times twins' heads are larger than their bodies for a while, because of they way they grow in the womb. They will grow into them.

Thanks TURBO...you are just a wealth of information, cadaver dogs to children's head sizes and everything in between! :blowkiss:

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I agree that there isn't anything strange....what I DID notice is the long week of not reporting the identity of the body and absolutely no ID of the guy who found it. Thought, that in this high profile case that that was a little strange. Maybe they were investigating his credibility before they reported it. But I DID notice the time lapse.

I knew his name the day it happened. I don't remember where I found it though, so they weren't hiding his name.

I think the FBI is taking their time because the Anthonys have been so antagonistic about their investigation and because the crime scene has not been cleared yet. I believe when they clear the scene it will be released.

I have never known LE to reveal WHO the victim was prior to clearing a crime scene because there can be other victims. They never know what will show up in something like this.