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BritsKate said:
Okay. And you're right - she was nearing the toddler stage but technically the toddler stage isn't referenced until the 12 month stage so the peeps calling her a baby and infant are correct in doing so. JMO
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I always assumed an infant was newborn to 12mo, and at 2yrs one would use toddler, since at 2 they r more mobile an toddling around :waitasec:
 
I never thought we were strange with babies but now I am starting to think we are. Like, we would never dose up a baby under a year old on cough medicine and then put him or her in a crib for 14 hours, shut the door, and never check on them. Some moms here are saying that is normal though and a lot of parents do it. I would be so paranoid the medicine would have some adverse reaction or that a sudden fever had broken out or something. The kids in our family who are 5-6 STILL get checked on before bed LOL.
 
katydid23 said:
The problem is that the symptoms of a 'cold' mimic many other more serious illnesses that can seem to come out of nowhere. And a 10 month old can become very ill very fast--even if it at first appears that they just have a 'cold.'

My son became very very ill in the middle of the night, and I was lucky to catch it. But we thought he just had a bad cold at first. And suddenly at about 3 am he had a huge fever spike and a full body rash, becoming scarlet fever within a matter of one evening.

Also, infants with 'colds' can have a sudden onset of respiratory problems or choking on phlegm or vomit very easily. Just because an infant is asleep it does not mean they do not need to be checked on during the night. You don't need to wake them up, just look in on them.
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That's true. My volleyball coach in high school had a toddler who died of what appeared to be a routine cold. And it was QUICK. So I agree with that.

Edited to add: I actually have another acquaintance, who also had a toddler die of what appeared to be a routine cold. She took the child into the emergency room insisting that something was horribly wrong, the docs took her temp - it was low grade, sniffles - and sent her home. She died overnight.

So yes, in very rare circumstances it can happen. But it doesn't seem that was necessarily on Deborah's mind. And when you have an "infant", who can't move to breathe if they cough phlegm they suffocate - in Lisa's case, she'd just sit up and flip over to be able to breathe.

I'm glad your child survived scarlet fever. : (
 
When DD had a few "colds" as an infant, DH and I took turns getting up during the night to make sure that our baby was breathing comfortably. If her nose needed suctioning, we did this to keep her nasal passages clear of mucus. Since there's asthma and respiratory allergies on my side of the family (including moi), we paid particular attention to any cough and would have contacted the pediatrician immediately if it was accompanied by wheezing or difficulty breathing. I've read in several media reports that Lisa Irwin supposedly had "a cold with a cough". I hope this baby was seen by a pediatrician to rule out allergies, asthma, or something more than "just a cold". jmo
 
SnoopyDoobyDoo said:
BBM I highly doubt it. My kids slept twelve to fourteen hours a night at that age, and when they were sick they would sleep most of the afternoon, get up for an hour or two (not eating because they wouldn't be hungry), then go back to sleep until morning. I would shut their door and let them get the much needed rest- if they woke I could hear them, no monitor required. But one thing I'v elearnt following this story is that I too am a horribly neglectful mother who should have her children taken by CPS.
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So are you saying that if your 10 month old was sick, you would put her to bed for 14 hours and never check on her during that 14 hr period? Never peek your head in once or twice? I am not saying your are horribly neglectful, just seriously asking you the question. Because 14 hours is a really long time, imo.

ETA: in my experience,a 10 month old would have a very wet, and probably poopie diaper within 14 hours time. And a child with a cold could have diarrhea during that time, if not just a lot of urine. And wouldn't you need to check on them during that time just to monitor their cold and their breathing?
 
Darcyline said:
I never thought we were strange with babies but now I am starting to think we are. Like, we would never dose up a baby under a year old on cough medicine and then put him or her in a crib for 14 hours, shut the door, and never check on them. Some moms here are saying that is normal though and a lot of parents do it. I would be so paranoid the medicine would have some adverse reaction or that a sudden fever had broken out or something. The kids in our family who are 5-6 STILL get checked on before bed LOL.
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If you're counting me in the group who think it's "normal", I don't, so sorry I've been misunderstood if that's what's happened.

I just don't think it indicates she's responsible for the death of Lisa, and hiding her body. And especially not for the very very carefully preplanned death of this child. I think it's just kind of . . . lazy parenting. We all know lazy parents whose kids grew up fine.

I don't think it's sinister, or an indication of a conniving murderer. I just think it's her culture.
 
I am not even sure if you would be who I would count as saying it is normal-I just remember reading a few actual Moms who said that they would do it all the time with their babies. That is interesting-her culture? Which culture?

Oh and I also agree that it doesn't mean she killed the baby and hid the body or anything. Right now I don't eliminate or focus on her as a suspect.
 
IMO it's not just that it's lazy, it's that it's dangerous to be so drunk and around babies. Anything can happen if you have to pick up and take care of a baby while drunk.
I know some drunk parents whose children turned out okay but I am still not OK with the parents.
 
katydid23 said:
THANK YOU. Those are wonderful and normal motherly instincts. When a toddler or an elderly person has a cough or a cold they are very vulnerable to other side effects. A cold is just an annoying thing to a healthy teen or grown up. But babies and toddlers and older folks are prone to breathing problems, fever spikes, acute respiratory problems like pnuemonoia , etc.

It just really really bothers me that she put this sick infant in her crib at 4:30, then again for the night at 6;40, and never looked in on her again. It makes me wonder about her maternal instincts towards her baby.
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It's very sad... It's also true about respiratory conditions popping up because before I took masen to the doctor he woke up coughing and had a hard time breathing.. I had to use his inhaler because I got scared.. I didn't leave his side after that.. I personally couldn't walk outside with a pack of smokes and box of wine to chat it up with some neighbor.. If at worst I'd invite her in and hang out in my kitchen maybe take turns smoking ( I don't smoke but) outside..

I understand no parent is perfect.. We have all at some point had a moment where we might of made a bad choice, maybe we yelled, maybe we ran inside our home for a second while our child was outside.. I dont know...But to me this is different because a child is missing and from the safety of her home while people are drinking..
 
Donjeta said:
IMO it's not just that it's lazy, it's that it's dangerous to be so drunk and around babies. Anything can happen if you have to pick up and take care of a baby while drunk.
I know some drunk parents whose children turned out okay but I am still not OK with the parents.
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My mom used to hire a babysitter for us even when she had people over for dinner and drinks...and back then, it wasn't really such a big deal to drink around kids. JMO
 
JeannaT said:
If you're counting me in the group who think it's "normal", I don't, so sorry I've been misunderstood if that's what's happened.

I just don't think it indicates she's responsible for the death of Lisa, and hiding her body. And especially not for the very very carefully preplanned death of this child. I think it's just kind of . . . lazy parenting. We all know lazy parents whose kids grew up fine.

I don't think it's sinister, or an indication of a conniving murderer. I just think it's her culture.
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I agree with you on alot of what you say here, Jeanna. Not checking on a child for that many hours doesn't in any way indicate to me that she intenionally killed her child. Not at all. But putting a 10 month old into her crib at 4:30, taking her out apparently only to feed and change her, and then putting her back in bed at 6:30 and never once checking on her again until almost 4 am is very troublesome to me. Add to that this certainly seems to have been done so that Mommy could get drunk...that's more than just lazy parenting, imo. It's outright negligent. And I just don't think it's a stretch to think it may just be possible that this mother was so intoxicated, that a horrible accident could have occurred as a direct result of the mother's inebriation.

But, that's just my opinion. I have no way of knowing for certain what occurred in that house that night. But I hope to god someone does figure it out...whatever the "it" turns out to be.
 
cluciano63 said:
My mom used to hire a babysitter for us even when she had people over for dinner and drinks...and back then, it wasn't really such a big deal to drink around kids. JMO
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I am assuming your babysitter was sober though?
 
AlmostGone said:
It's very sad... It's also true about respiratory conditions popping up because before I took masen to the doctor he woke up coughing and had a hard time breathing.. I had to use his inhaler because I got scared.. I didn't leave his side after that.. I personally couldn't walk outside with a pack of smokes and box of wine to chat it up with some neighbor.. If at worst I'd invite her in and hang out in my kitchen maybe take turns smoking ( I don't smoke but) outside..

I understand no parent is perfect.. We have all at some point had a moment where we might of made a bad choice, maybe we yelled, maybe we ran inside our home for a second while our child was outside.. I dont know...But to me this is different because a child is missing and from the safety of her home while people are drinking..
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TRUE. We all make mistakes. Mine are 19 and 23 and I still make mistakes. But I think kids give us the benefit of the doubt if they can tell that we mean well. We may make mistakes out of ignorance or inexperience, but we still have our kids best interests at heart, hopefully.

I just wonder bout the motivations behind DB's actions that evening. To me, they seem very selfish and self centered. It was a school night. Did the boys do any homework? Were they prepared for school the next morning? It does not seem so, imo.
 
21merc7 said:
I am furious! I call it a power play against the New Yorkers. I may as well move into a cave and drag people around by the hair.
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Where would you like them to search, Merc? Without anything to go on, it's like finding a needle in a haystack. :(
 
Mountain_Kat said:
Beats me...she was in bed also at 4:30 pm. How long do babies sleep? Don't they wet themselves? Require diaper changes?

(I obviously have no children. LOL.)
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My kids never slept through the night at that age.

Speaking of which, what happened to DB's account that she changed Lisa and fed her a bottle? Seems to have disintegrated from all the timelines since she announced she had been drunk.
 
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