NBC Action News new timeline - 11/02/2011

[SmoothOperator]

Thanks for the link Surfie.. Any news at all IMO is better than none .. Especially re:keeping baby Lisa's name out front and in the media UNTIL SHE IS FOUND..

I understand what you're saying about JI and the possibility that Debs hid the alcohol from him.. But of course nothing but just my opinion but for some reason I don't get this feeling that Debs drinking was a hidden thing at all.. I think it was a common occurrence.. As I've posted about before I know women whose routine ATLEAST 1 school night a week is almost identical to Debs in that their hubby's work nights and they a neighbor or two over(who bring their children as well).. And they all get in kitchen and cook something up for the kiddos and that by the time the kids are eating these moms have had at minimum their first glass of wine.. The remainder of the night plays out between kitchen, living room and front or back stoop smoking while all the kids are playing throughout the house, watching movies, playing Wii, and popping outside when moms are out their smoking.. The night comes to a close when one of three things happens,, the well runs dry(out of wine).. One of the kids are arguing with the other kids, or a hubby says time to come home to any or all that are over at the woman's house.. As I said this occurs ATLEAST 1 weeknight per week.. I don't agree with alot of what they choose to do, or how they choose to do it.. But none of these women would intentionally harm a hair on their Childs head.. They're faaaaar from consciousLESS monsters capable of killing and then covering up their Childs death..

So, just from the dynamics I have seen and read about in the last month I get the feeling that there was nothing being hidden AT ALL FROM JEREMY!!! that night IMO was nothing out of the ordinary in many ways with the drinking and having neighbor and neighbors kids over..

(Reost questioning that baby Lisa was perhaps sleeping more than what they felt was normal)
MOO but I take into consideration that baby Lisa was not her usual self and quite likely was fussy and sleepy due to having a seasonal cold.. IMOO..

(Re: someone brought up that it was strange that the neighbor checked on baby Lisa when Jeremy was still home.. As well as a comment about why Jeremy didn't take Debs to the store for wipes/wine.. Why brother took her)..

My answer is one and the same for both is the issues posed above.. In my own personal experience with having a hubby that has worked a weekly shift that varies from days to afternoons to midnight shifts all in one 40hr workweek.. Meaning that just as Jeremy had that day it's the same for my hubby that he may get off work and only have a handful of hours before he has to turn around and be back at work.. Thus those few hours are quite important to ATLEAST attempt to relax and/or even get some shut eye if possible.. It's hugely important IMOO..

So, I can very easily see Deb asking her brother to give her a ride to the store since Jeremy was resting for his overnight shift.. The neighbor was over as well so, I would find it to be completely normal that while Deb went to the store with brother that the neighbor went in the nursery and checked in on Lisa..yes Jeremy still in the home but perhaps relaxing or resting on the couch or in their bedroom.. This is not at all odd or strange to me at all and have personally been gone to the store and left a friend amd her child at my home with my son.. All while hubby is trying to get a little rest before having to head back to work..

 

[katydid23]

It sounds hinky to me too. Its been awhile since mine were that age, but my little one ADORED her big brother. She would NOT have been happy to be stuck in a crib with her brother and a friend there. She would have wanted to be a part of the fun. Isn't that how most kids are?

EXACTLY. And my daughter absolutely LOVED older little girls. [ maybe because she had a big brother, no sisters.] But if baby Lisa knew the 4 yr old girl was visiting, there is no way, imo, that she would quietly accept laying alone in her crib.

 

[katydid23]

If Lisa was ill with a cold, she might have not been sleeping well during the day. Maybe she snoozed a bit around 4:30 and then was still cranky so she went to bed at 6:30. My granddaughter sometimes comes home from daycare completely exhausted and cranky because she missed a nap, falls asleep for about half an hour around 5 and then goes to bed at 7 or 7:30 for the night.

True, but Baby Lisa did not go to daycare. I agree, going to daycare is very exhausting, because it is so stimulating. But Lisa was home alone with mom all day while dad at work and brothers were in school. So it is hard for me to believe that she would be so exhausted at 4:30 that she would essentially go to bed for the night. She did not even eat dinner with them at 5:30. And IF she was really so sick that she needed to go straight to bed, then mom should have been checking on her, and not getting smashed.

 

[Whisperer]

Thanks for the link Surfie.. Any news at all IMO is better than none .. Especially re:keeping baby Lisa's name out front and in the media UNTIL SHE IS FOUND..

I understand what you're saying about JI and the possibility that Debs hid the alcohol from him.. But of course nothing but just my opinion but for some reason I don't get this feeling that Debs drinking was a hidden thing at all.. I think it was a common occurrence.. As I've posted about before I know women whose routine ATLEAST 1 school night a week is almost identical to Debs in that their hubby's work nights and they a neighbor or two over(who bring their children as well).. And they all get in kitchen and cook something up for the kiddos and that by the time the kids are eating these moms have had at minimum their first glass of wine.. The remainder of the night plays out between kitchen, living room and front or back stoop smoking while all the kids are playing throughout the house, watching movies, playing Wii, and popping outside when moms are out their smoking.. The night comes to a close when one of three things happens,, the well runs dry(out of wine).. One of the kids are arguing with the other kids, or a hubby says time to come home to any or all that are over at the woman's house.. As I said this occurs ATLEAST 1 weeknight per week.. I don't agree with alot of what they choose to do, or how they choose to do it.. But none of these women would intentionally harm a hair on their Childs head.. They're faaaaar from consciousLESS monsters capable of killing and then covering up their Childs death..

So, just from the dynamics I have seen and read about in the last month I get the feeling that there was nothing being hidden AT ALL FROM JEREMY!!! that night IMO was nothing out of the ordinary in many ways with the drinking and having neighbor and neighbors kids over..

(Reost questioning that baby Lisa was perhaps sleeping more than what they felt was normal)
MOO but I take into consideration that baby Lisa was not her usual self and quite likely was fussy and sleepy due to having a seasonal cold.. IMOO..

(Re: someone brought up that it was strange that the neighbor checked on baby Lisa when Jeremy was still home.. As well as a comment about why Jeremy didn't take Debs to the store for wipes/wine.. Why brother took her)..

My answer is one and the same for both is the issues posed above.. In my own personal experience with having a hubby that has worked a weekly shift that varies from days to afternoons to midnight shifts all in one 40hr workweek.. Meaning that just as Jeremy had that day it's the same for my hubby that he may get off work and only have a handful of hours before he has to turn around and be back at work.. Thus those few hours are quite important to ATLEAST attempt to relax and/or even get some shut eye if possible.. It's hugely important IMOO..

So, I can very easily see Deb asking her brother to give her a ride to the store since Jeremy was resting for his overnight shift.. The neighbor was over as well so, I would find it to be completely normal that while Deb went to the store with brother that the neighbor went in the nursery and checked in on Lisa..yes Jeremy still in the home but perhaps relaxing or resting on the couch or in their bedroom.. This is not at all odd or strange to me at all and have personally been gone to the store and left a friend amd her child at my home with my son.. All while hubby is trying to get a little rest before having to head back to work..

If it was that important, I would think DB would be home during those hours to watch the children while he rested. Better yet, take the children out so he could rest. I am not buying into the fact that Db cared so much she had her neighbor come over while JI rested for work. This was his first double, I would think DB would be there while he was home those few hours...that is, if he was home.

I understand your experience and I agree with what you said regarding it. DB strikes me the wrong way, Smooth....since this was the first time he ever worked a double.

 

[Whisperer]

What time did JI leave for work that day? I think we were told 5:40. However, I just saw that the brother left about that time. Did JI ever himself say when he left the house?

 

[katydid23]

I'm sorry........ but sick babies in my house were checked on constantly and 99% of the time are right next to me 24/7 ( when I fostered)...heck my 13 year old son if sick with a fever lays on the sofa during the day, in the family room, across from me and at night ...he still sleeps in my bed!

I like to keep a close eyeball on sick kids because things can get ugly fast, especially with a baby.

SO TRUE. And DB should have known that, having the older boys at home too.
A child can have a bad fever spike in a very short interval of time. Watching a febrile convulsion is very SCARY. And infants with nasty colds can have breathing problems or choking problems too. She was left alone with her bottle. Someone should have been checking in on her frequently.

 

[greenpalm]

Possibly JI took a nap after working his day shift hours & before the side job?
Wouldn't it have been easier to send the neighbor to the store than DB going?

But didn't DB use her WIC card to buy the baby food? I bet there are restrictions on letting someone else use it. In fact, in the Aliyah Lundsford case, mom was arrested for selling her WIC credits. So, that may be why DB had to go herself. It also makes sense to me that SB would stay with all the kids while PN took DB to the store, rather than the other way around. He, being an uncle would be a third string kid watcher, I'll warrant (moo!)

Every case starts out relatively simple, and after the media picks it up, it tends to get convoluted. I don't know if it's necessarily the media that causes it, or it's just that they would drop a case if it wasn't sensational enough, but it seems the most high profile cases have a lot of twists and turns.

The ones that are quickly resolved and lead to an arrest don't lend themselves to much discussion. So, the more convoluted it is, the longer the child stays missing, the higher profile it goes. The recent case in Carrollton, TX of Jasmen Gonzalez, went out pretty quickly, because they found her body within 15 hours, and made an arrest a day later. What else is there to follow or discuss?

Pseudologia fantastica comes with factitious disorders. Pat Brown suggested Deb had a factitious disorder (Munchausen).

I'm sorry, who is Pat Brown? (I know NG, but Pat Brown is new to me) okaythxgby

Oh, LE has already let all of us hear it. They just told us not to play it for YOU. :crazy:

:floorlaugh: you are too much Mountain_Kat!

It's not public info. in Missouri, so probably not unless there's a trial.

Bummer.

 

[peeples]

But didn't DB use her WIC card to buy the baby food? I bet there are restrictions on letting someone else use it. In fact, in the Aliyah Lundsford case, mom was arrested for selling her WIC credits. So, that may be why DB had to go herself. It also makes sense to me that SB would stay with all the kids while PN took DB to the store, rather than the other way around. He, being an uncle would be a third string kid watcher, I'll warrant (moo!)



The ones that are quickly resolved and lead to an arrest don't lend themselves to much discussion. So, the more convoluted it is, the longer the child stays missing, the higher profile it goes. The recent case in Carrollton, TX of Jasmen Gonzalez, went out pretty quickly, because they found her body within 15 hours, and made an arrest a day later. What else is there to follow or discuss?



I'm sorry, who is Pat Brown? (I know NG, but Pat Brown is new to me) okaythxgby



:floorlaugh: you are too much Mountain_Kat!



Bummer.

WIC is very different than SNAP benefits (what aliayahs mother has been charged with selling). Last I knew WIC recipients had a little blue folder and pay with checks. Checks are pre written out with things on them such as formula, peanut buetter, cereal, fresh fruit and veggies, milk and juice
SNAP benefits are on a card, at least here in Iowa, and are good on ANY non cooked food item

 

[nannymo]

I am still on the fence with this one but.......Does anyone find it odd that JI would complain so brutally at 4 in the morning about lights being left on (electricity doesn't cost THAT much) when his wife had gone to the grocery store hours before and bought a BOX of wine? Also smoking on the porch all night is not cheap and I believe I have seen video of them both smoking. I just can't see them being that broke if they are still smoking and drinking that much. Complaining about light being on is overkill to me. Just like everything else something doesn't jive here?!?

I can see neighbor looking in on baby Lisa while in her crib. I love babies and I don't care who is around if there is a baby close by I'm going to look at it. That doesn't bother me. It's all the other stuff from 6:30 to 10:30 they have left out that bothers me.

 

[Melanie]

Could the kitten have laid on Lisa because of the milk smell on her breath and suffocated her? Or were all five of them in one bed sleeping? I'd imagine Lisa wouldn't have had much room if she were in the middle.

Are you insinuating sids? I know this is an ol' wives tale about kitties that lie on newborns due to the smell of milk - but far from it really happening these days. Baby Lisa was 10 months old and could easily swipe away a kitten.

Now if you said DB rolled over and smooshed her in her drunken stupor, I'd be more than likely to believe that. :crazy:

MOO

Mel

 

[Wendy101]

So, we now have Lisa, seen by a neighbor in her crib @4:30 and apparently fine. I would want her to elaborate on the word "apparently. Does that mean she was sleeping? playing? reading? What?

Now this baby is in her crib @ 4:30. DB wants everyone to believe she put her to bed at 6:40? Does anyone else think this is all insanity? Who is this neighbor and why did she say she was apparently fine. I am stuck on that word.

For all intentional purposes, we now have Lisa in that crib for many more hours than we thought. When was she PUT in the crib that day? Looking at the crib mattress, it wasn't very far down. In fact it looked like an energetic ten month old could climb out of it.

BBM: So, the last person that saw baby Lisa (other than family) was this neighbor @ 4:30?? What? Was Lisa supposed to sleep from 4:30PM until sometime the next morning??
Also, if baby Lisa had a nap or was in her crib at 4:30, WHY would she be going to sleep for the night at 6:40???

 

[Melanie]

One thing I didn't realize was that JI was actually working overtime because of financial issues. So, he came home after working two almost back to back shifts because of bad money issues including having phones cut off to find all the lights on, a drunk wife, missing baby, AND a random stray cat on his bed?

I. Would. Explode.

It would also explain his behaviour on camera too. Almost like WTF? I work all these hours and come home to find you drunk and my baby missing. Yah, if I were in his shoes chances are my hands would be wrapped around someones throat.

 

[Melanie]

BBM: So, the last person that saw baby Lisa (other than family) was this neighbor @ 4:30?? What? Was Lisa supposed to sleep from 4:30PM until sometime the next morning??
Also, if baby Lisa had a nap or was in her crib at 4:30, WHY would she be going to sleep for the night at 6:40???[/QUOTE]

Adult time don't ya know! :crazy: The adult time that DB has NO problem with.

:maddening:

 

[Wendy101]

I am still on the fence with this one but.......Does anyone find it odd that JI would complain so brutally at 4 in the morning about lights being left on (electricity doesn't cost THAT much) when his wife had gone to the grocery store hours before and bought a BOX of wine? Also smoking on the porch all night is not cheap and I believe I have seen video of them both smoking. I just can't see them being that broke if they are still smoking and drinking that much. Complaining about light being on is overkill to me. Just like everything else something doesn't jive here?!?

I can see neighbor looking in on baby Lisa while in her crib. I love babies and I don't care who is around if there is a baby close by I'm going to look at it. That doesn't bother me. It's all the other stuff from 6:30 to 10:30 they have left out that bothers me.

BBM: No I don't find this odd at all! Sounds to me like Jeremy is the only one working in that family...he may even be helping support Debrah Bradleys little brother.. Jeremy just returned from working an EXTRA job (probably to make ends meet) and there the lights are on in his house, his drunk girlfriend is passed out (probably not the first time) ... I would even bet there was a fight between Jeremy and Dehorah prior to Jeremy leaving for work...IMO

 

[Melanie]

GAHHH --

NG now reporting about DB's extra-maritial affairs (to be in the National Enquirer on Friday).

Of course DB is not married to JI, so I don't know how extra-marital affairs fits in here. But anyway -- carry on.

MOO

Mel

 

[Melanie]

True, but Baby Lisa did not go to daycare. I agree, going to daycare is very exhausting, because it is so stimulating. But Lisa was home alone with mom all day while dad at work and brothers were in school. So it is hard for me to believe that she would be so exhausted at 4:30 that she would essentially go to bed for the night. She did not even eat dinner with them at 5:30. And IF she was really so sick that she needed to go straight to bed, then mom should have been checking on her, and not getting smashed.

Do we know when the last time Baby Lisa was fed? I read that DB made dinner for the boys and the neighbor, but did she also feed LI baby food at 5:30 too? Or was LI in the crib at 4:30PM until she was "kidnapped"?

Thx.

Mel

 

[Wendy101]

GAHHH --

NG now reporting about DB's extra-maritial affairs (to be in the National Enquirer on Friday).

Of course DB is not married to JI, so I don't know how extra-marital affairs fits in here. But anyway -- carry on.

MOO

Mel

BBM: Boy, Jeremy should pull a Kaine Horman, grab his son and RUN!!! :crazy:

 

[norest4thewicked]

I thought she was put down at 4:30 and then put down again at 6:30, but I don't know what happened between or why she was only up for 2 hours.

 

[Pensfan]

I'm sorry, who is Pat Brown? (I know NG, but Pat Brown is new to me) okaythxgby

Respectfully shortened-
http://www.patbrownprofiling.com/

 

[SmoothOperator]

If it was that important, I would think DB would be home during those hours to watch the children while he rested. Better yet, take the children out so he could rest. I am not buying into the fact that Db cared so much she had her neighbor come over while JI rested for work. This was his first double, I would think DB would be there while he was home those few hours...that is, if he was home.

I understand your experience and I agree with what you said regarding it. DB strikes me the wrong way, Smooth....since this was the first time he ever worked a double.

I totally under what you're saying, whisp and I truly don't have it within me to want to protest in this woman's favor in my giving her the benefit of the doubt! She makes me so very angry and her at times very haughty and self righteous attitude is waaaaaaaaaay more than enough to make me dislike her immensely.. I am at times hanging onto this damn middle of the road fence and thinking why in the hell am I even giving her any benefit of the doubt and even tho I feel there is alot that "could" or "possibly" be explained(example being my previous post about my personal experience with my hubby and similar work schedule.. Or my knowing women who do completely selfish and irresponsible things like getting drunk on weeknights with them being the sole caretaker in the home).. I many times wonder why I am even giving this person(Debs) any benefit of the doubt AT ALL WHEN SHE SEEMS TO BE DOING THINGS OPPOSITE OF WHAT SEEM TO BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF FINDING HER BABY DAUTHTER?!?!

I honestly don't know why im even giving this Side of the coin or this perspective?!? .. But I am.. I guess I feel like I should offer up an explanation "if" there is one for certain issues.. And let me say my giving an explanation or a different perspective is not attempting to give her an excuse, or that I in any way condone these issues, or that I'm giving her a pass.. I AM NOT! I'm just simply giving another perspective and nothing more.. I certainly do not feel compelled to fight for this woman's innocence.. I'm not naive and stupid and I rationally know and understand that it is every bit possible that this woman Did harm or even kill her baby!! That's why I won't fight against those who feel strongly that she did kill Lisa And is covering up that death.. Because I know that could indeed be true..

So, please know that in my posts explaining or offering up a different perspective or explanation is not my defiantly opposing you alls thoughts and opinions.. It's truly nothing more than putting a different explanation out there as a "possibility".. Might be a far fetched "possibility" but I guess that's the best way to attempt to explain some of my posts about different issues or details of the case as we know it..

Time will tell and I pray for a miracle that we get to see baby Lisa alive and well.. I know it's truly asking for a miracle at this point but that's what I'm holding onto at the moment..

Jmo, tho!