NC - 12-year-old dies at Trails Carolina wilderness therapy camp, Lake Toxaway, February 2024

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Ick that they call them "students". Why would they not just call them "campers"?

Inmates would be more accurate imo.

I wonder if his pants and underwear came off when he was pulled out of the bivy head first?

I don't think that would be possible with his legs stiff and up near his chest, which is probably the same reason they couldn't redress him. Speculation only.
 
"The FBI is doing some analysis for us on computers, on latops," Nicholson told the Citizen Times. The electronics were taken from the camp along with cell phones and personal belongings of the boy using a search warrant approved by a judge.

The search warrants described the boy as being found with foam coming from his mouth, a possible sign of having ingested poison.

"There can be a whole host of reasons why that would occur," Nicholson told the Citizen Times. "The more common would be the child ingests something that would be toxic to them."

The test results from the N.C. Medical Examiner's Office typically take "quite some time," the sheriff's spokesperson said when asked about a timeline.
BBM

I don't know if there's been an improvement with much delayed autopsy reports.

 
Inmates would be more accurate imo.



I don't think that would be possible with his legs stiff and up near his chest, which is probably the same reason they couldn't redress him. Speculation only.
They said his arms were on his chest and his knees were pointed up. It would depend on the angle of his knees.
 
Sweat pants, sure. Obviously, I meant blue jeans, etc, real 'pants', like most people wear outside their home.
I wonder if he was given some sort of sweatpants or sleepwear and that item of clothing was removed after his death by person or persons unknown?

hard to dress a body with rigor in the position he was found. Not at all hard to cut off clothing from a body found thus. Maybe he was nude because someone cut off whatever was on his bottom half before responders arrived? Not sure what the motivation for that would be either though. Unless he had been denied bathroom privilege and forced to sleep in soiled clothes and someone thought that would not look good? But him being naked on the bottom isn't the best optics either.
 
Why was he sleeping in pants? Why wasn't he given pajamas to sleep in? Pants are very uncomfortable to sleep in, try it.

JMO

I think a lot of teens wear only sweat pants (so not jeans) and also just sleep in them and don't bother with pajamas much. At least mine prefers this. I pictured his pants by his head being sweatpants but IDK.
 
Speculation best case scenario -- maybe he was hopefully wearing pants but they became soiled when he died, and when the staff found him, they cleaned up the scene. They definitely went into CYA mode. But maybe just couldn't get new pants on him.

The more I think about this camp, compared to the one I have created in my mind that I think would be ideal for teens-in-need, the more I think this camp should be closed permanently.

All JMO.
 
I wonder if he was given some sort of sweatpants or sleepwear and that item of clothing was removed after his death by person or persons unknown?

hard to dress a body with rigor in the position he was found. Not at all hard to cut off clothing from a body found thus. Maybe he was nude because someone cut off whatever was on his bottom half before responders arrived? Not sure what the motivation for that would be either though. Unless he had been denied bathroom privilege and forced to sleep in soiled clothes and someone thought that would not look good? But him being naked on the bottom isn't the best optics either.

Not the nicest thing to think about, but wouldn't his clothes be soiled by that point anyway?
 
I see, thanks.

Couldn't they have asked the kids for their parent's names and numbers?
I imagine yes. But.... I am thinking that the camp was disbanded following the death of the camper. The kids then scattered all over the country.

If the "confidentiality theory" is correct, I imagine that the camp could find away to provide contact information (maybe contact parents for permission?) if they really wanted to.

They, however, might not "really want to" and investigators might not be able to force them to develop imagination and creativity short of getting a Court order.

Even getting a Court order might be problematic. Can subjects under any kind of investigation be force to provide creative administrative assistance to the investigators?
 
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I stayed at a resort just a couple of miles down the road from Lake Toxaway for a long weekend a few years back, in early November. I was not aware of this camp's proximity at the time. I also can't find its location on Google Maps or Google Earth - in fact searching for Trails Carolina leads to a location in Asheville NC approximately 50 miles from the lake, presumably an administrative center. I find this seemingly deliberate lack of transparency/concealment of the actual camp property to be deceptive and a bit troubling.

I can say Lake Toxaway lies in in a very rural area, sparsely populated year-round aside from tiny hamlets, located in rugged terrain (the foothills of the Great Smoky Mountains). Much of the surrounding territory is national or state park or forest land. Wildlife abounds, including bears, and it was freezing cold every night we were there. If these kids are out in the woods at night with just a tarp and their clothes for protection, that's not just deprivation - it's neglect and abuse. IMO it also demonstrates depraved indifference by the camp to the well-being of displaced and isolated troubled children who have been entrusted to the camp's care by their guardians, and thus have no agency to help themselves even if they could find their way to an adult who would assist them.
500 Winding Gap Rd, Lake Toxaway, NC 28747 is the location of the camp.
 
instructor hung up on 911 dispatcher despite being told to stay on the line. Why? Surely they know better, have they never watched tv or read a book involving a 911 call? Are they not trained in what to do if an emergency needs reported in the course of their job?
I've been there, done that...
Two people in the building, one doing CPR, patients present and 911 wants me to answer 50 questions, I don't have answers for. When a facility calls, 911 flips to a screen that ask, DOB, next of kin, physician, allergies, entire list of medication and dosages, on and in with stuff not at hand. I'm with the patient all that's in the med room.
Nope, I can't run up to the med room and pull the file, I've got to help with the patients and CPR. 911 it's relentless, no matter how many times you tell the operator you must go help and will fax everything to the hospital, they need er stop.
I hang up, once I'm assured an ambulances on the way.

OT... When the military jet crashed several months ago in North Carolina, the media played the 911 call. We have a thread. The person calling repeatedly told 911, a pilot had ejected and the plane is flying without a pilot, the pilot was in his house. She just keep asking did he fall, how far did he fall, what's the extend of the injuries.
Finally the pilot comes to the phone, he tries to explain, he's a pilot in the US military , gives the base name, less than 30 miles away and he injected and the plane is still flying without a pilot and to call his base. She starts back in with how far did you fall, what are the extent of your injuries, he finally gives up, when she says shes dispatching ambulance.
I knew this guy's frustration, these folks don't give up on the script.
Moo
 
I imagine yes. But.... I am thinking that the camp was disbanded following the death of the camper. The kids then scattered all over the country.

If the "confidentiality theory" is correct, I imagine that the camp could find away to provide contact information (maybe contact parents for permission?) if they really wanted to.

They, however, might not "really want to" and investigators might not be able to force them to develop imagination and creativity short of getting a Court order.

Even getting a Court order might be problematic. Can subjects under any kind of investigation be force to provide creative administrative assistance to the investigators?
The camp was not disbanded, and the children scattered. BHH and DSS were on site even over the weekend. Posted up thread.
LE now has campers and their information. They obtained a search warrant. This is HIPPA protected information, of course the facilities go on a search warrant.
LE obtained a search warrant, up thread. All records, computer, etc were in the warrant. LE stated FBI was handling forensics for the computer.

Moo
 
I’ve been following this thread (and a few others), and have been finally motivated to make an account. So far I think the request for a search warrant is the best source of information worth relying on, and though I don’t want to fixate on every little word choice (and acknowledge that the search warrant was written for a judge, not the public), there are a few things that are still standing out to me:

1) The description of the bunkhouse really threw me. “CJH would have to sleep on the floor of the bunk house, the base layer of it is a heavy duty plastic that is cut approximately 6 feet and tied on each end with a string...” To me, this reads like the flood of the bunk house is the plastic, which would imply the bunk house is more like a shelter than a cabin.
I think this is just confusing writing. This video from the website (0:15) shows a full cabin that fits the description in the warrant, and that Trails says is located at Winding Gap and is fully heated. The other option would be the “yurt” (also heated), which for this context seems negligibly different. I’m still confused about the plastic mat—what was it tied down to? Why was it there at all? It sounds like a camping groundsheet, and I can’t fathom why it would be needed.
Screenshot 2024-02-15 at 10.10.40 Medium.jpeg

2) “on top of this is a sleeping Bivvy which is considered a small tent. One side is collapsed and the other side is held up by a flex pole.”
This description also seems weird. The video I linked (0:31) shows what they call “tents” that I think would also fit the description of a “bivvy”. The ones pictured obviously has more than one flex pole involved, but it made me realize that the flex pole described in the warrant could be hooped by the head of the bivvy (where the entrance would be) instead of a single vertical pole like I had in my head.
Screenshot 2024-02-15 at 10.21.36 Medium.jpeg

3) The 4 other boys in the cabin will surely be a huge source of information, once LE is able to speak to them.
I can’t imagine that they all slept from midnight to 7:45 am, nor that CJH and the counselors were quiet the whole time. 8 people in a single room. It also seems weird to me that this was a part of their protocol; placing a new “camper” in a cabin full of boys who get to sleep in their bunks while the newbie sleeps on the floor? New campers are often agitated and in distress, which is why they have a protocol and why there were 3 counselors monitoring, and surely this would be annoying to the existing residents. Why would a so-called therapy camp want to set up that sort of adversarial relationship for a newbie? What’s the perceived benefit?

4) It has been hypothesized here a few times that the foam found in CJH’s mouth could be a reaction to a drug.
Do we know if they are regularly prescribing anything? It’s one thing to be doling out already-prescribed medications, or providing run-of-the-mill medical care, but Trails is not advertised as a medical facility, and the doctor on staff is listed as a “consulting physician” and is not a full-timer (Trails Carolina Staff Bio: Dr. Tony Fisher, MD - Trails Carolina). Based on the credentials of the staff they have listed, I wouldn’t expect them to be regularly administering any sort of psychiatric pharmaceuticals.

5) That CJH was undressed from the waist down is obviously concerning. I don’t think there is any “good” reason for that to have happened, but I think there are a lot of assumptions being made about it. It remains possible to me that CJH would have removed the pants and underpants himself, because I do not expect a child in that much distress to be acting rationally. We also don’t know anything about CJH that would give us any expectations about how he in particular would act/react in any situation. I could also see how someone (in this case a counselor) would not know that he had (been) undressed, as he was in a sleeping bag.

6) It’s also interesting that the body was found in a specific position (on his back, on a mat, knees pointed up, arms on his chest, half undressed, with clothes next to him), despite the expectation that he would sleep in the sleeping bag inside of the bivvy (which I’m guessing was on that same mat). Did they pull him out of there, already in rigor mortis and attempt to perform CPR? That is implausible to me, as the knees up would make it difficult to completely remove him from the sleeping bag, and I can’t see why they would need to. Or if they pulled him out or he got out while still alive, why did they wait so long to call for help?

I think the last point is the thing that needs the most explaining. Accidents happen (who knows if this was one), but when accidents happen, you have a duty to these kids to get help, you don’t wait a few hours.
 
TRANSYLVANIA COUNTY, N.C. —
A multi-agency is underway after a 12-year-old boy died at a western North Carolina wilderness therapy camp.
Door plugs and missing bolts? The Boeing 737 Max 9 investigation explained

I can only assume the word 'investigation' was inadvertently left out of this story which posted today.
-------------------------------
*The Feb. 3, 2024 call between the dispatcher and field instructor lasted just a minute and a half, with the instructor hanging up before answering all of the dispatcher's questions.
[snip]
According to a statement from Trails Carolina, released Feb. 8, 2024, “Trails staff-initiated life-saving efforts and called EMS and the sheriff, and **our staff have fully cooperated with the local law enforcement’s investigation, voluntarily presenting themselves for interviews with law enforcement and other related public agencies. Any assertion to the contrary is false, reckless, and defamatory. ***No other students were involved in any way, and all students were moved immediately so as to minimize the impact on them. Our students have cooperated to the extent authorized by their parents.”
Transcript of 911 call in boy's death at wilderness camp released by sheriff's office

all MOO
* instructor hung up on 911 dispatcher despite being told to stay on the line. Why? Surely they know better, have they never watched tv or read a book involving a 911 call? Are they not trained in what to do if an emergency needs reported in the course of their job?

** per LE, that is patently untrue as there are still at least two staffers who were present that night in or near the bunkhouse who have not made themselves available and moreover have not been named to LE per LE's statement I posted yesterday.

*** They cannot make a determination that no other students were involved as we don't know what happened to CJH yet but we do know four other "students" were present with him in the bunkhouse where he died.
JMO those facts alone about how unprofessionally the staff handled the 911 call makes this case - and the camp - very sketchy.

They hung up after the dispatcher told them to stay on the line AND they hung up without answering all the questions.

What were they hiding? MOO
 
I wonder if his pants and underwear came off when he was pulled out of the bivy head first?
They can't have, since his knees were bent and he was in rigor.

IMO they maybe cut them off before LE got there.

So far, I don't think we can be certain they pulled him out of the bivy, because it's not clear if the staff witness was telling the truth.
 
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I’ve been following this thread (and a few others), and have been finally motivated to make an account. So far I think the request for a search warrant is the best source of information worth relying on, and though I don’t want to fixate on every little word choice (and acknowledge that the search warrant was written for a judge, not the public), there are a few things that are still standing out to me:

1) The description of the bunkhouse really threw me. “CJH would have to sleep on the floor of the bunk house, the base layer of it is a heavy duty plastic that is cut approximately 6 feet and tied on each end with a string...” To me, this reads like the flood of the bunk house is the plastic, which would imply the bunk house is more like a shelter than a cabin.
I think this is just confusing writing. This video from the website (0:15) shows a full cabin that fits the description in the warrant, and that Trails says is located at Winding Gap and is fully heated. The other option would be the “yurt” (also heated), which for this context seems negligibly different. I’m still confused about the plastic mat—what was it tied down to? Why was it there at all? It sounds like a camping groundsheet, and I can’t fathom why it would be needed.
View attachment 483506

2) “on top of this is a sleeping Bivvy which is considered a small tent. One side is collapsed and the other side is held up by a flex pole.”
This description also seems weird. The video I linked (0:31) shows what they call “tents” that I think would also fit the description of a “bivvy”. The ones pictured obviously has more than one flex pole involved, but it made me realize that the flex pole described in the warrant could be hooped by the head of the bivvy (where the entrance would be) instead of a single vertical pole like I had in my head.
View attachment 483507

3) The 4 other boys in the cabin will surely be a huge source of information, once LE is able to speak to them.
I can’t imagine that they all slept from midnight to 7:45 am, nor that CJH and the counselors were quiet the whole time. 8 people in a single room. It also seems weird to me that this was a part of their protocol; placing a new “camper” in a cabin full of boys who get to sleep in their bunks while the newbie sleeps on the floor? New campers are often agitated and in distress, which is why they have a protocol and why there were 3 counselors monitoring, and surely this would be annoying to the existing residents. Why would a so-called therapy camp want to set up that sort of adversarial relationship for a newbie? What’s the perceived benefit?

4) It has been hypothesized here a few times that the foam found in CJH’s mouth could be a reaction to a drug.
Do we know if they are regularly prescribing anything? It’s one thing to be doling out already-prescribed medications, or providing run-of-the-mill medical care, but Trails is not advertised as a medical facility, and the doctor on staff is listed as a “consulting physician” and is not a full-timer (Trails Carolina Staff Bio: Dr. Tony Fisher, MD - Trails Carolina). Based on the credentials of the staff they have listed, I wouldn’t expect them to be regularly administering any sort of psychiatric pharmaceuticals.

5) That CJH was undressed from the waist down is obviously concerning. I don’t think there is any “good” reason for that to have happened, but I think there are a lot of assumptions being made about it. It remains possible to me that CJH would have removed the pants and underpants himself, because I do not expect a child in that much distress to be acting rationally. We also don’t know anything about CJH that would give us any expectations about how he in particular would act/react in any situation. I could also see how someone (in this case a counselor) would not know that he had (been) undressed, as he was in a sleeping bag.

6) It’s also interesting that the body was found in a specific position (on his back, on a mat, knees pointed up, arms on his chest, half undressed, with clothes next to him), despite the expectation that he would sleep in the sleeping bag inside of the bivvy (which I’m guessing was on that same mat). Did they pull him out of there, already in rigor mortis and attempt to perform CPR? That is implausible to me, as the knees up would make it difficult to completely remove him from the sleeping bag, and I can’t see why they would need to. Or if they pulled him out or he got out while still alive, why did they wait so long to call for help?

I think the last point is the thing that needs the most explaining. Accidents happen (who knows if this was one), but when accidents happen, you have a duty to these kids to get help, you don’t wait a few hours.
Great. I was looking for that tent photo and couldn't find it again. They would definitely never be described as bivvies. And their pole system is a lot more complicated than the LE describes in the warrant.

Welcome to WS.

As I was looking at camp photos, I wan't at all sure Carolina Trails doesn't own just one or two bunkhouses between all 4 properties. The yurts are nothing resembling a yurt. They've attached thin plastic sheeting to a lumber frame with a gable. Hard to say how they would be heated. It's possible there's only one yurt at one location. But none of it is suitable for the use they're describing.

From the description of the sleeping set up in the cabin, the plastic sheet would be on the floor with the bivy on top of it, and the sleeping bag inside.
But none of this is exactly clear, because the staff were clearly hiding details (e.g. the zipper, and whether the child could get out of the bivvy, which the LE pointed to as manipulative). It sounds like the child was found on a sleeping pad. And the whole set up, bivy, ground cloth, etc. was a description from the prevaricating staff member, so hard to know what to trust.
 
Why was he sleeping in pants? Why wasn't he given pajamas to sleep in? Pants are very uncomfortable to sleep in, try it.

JMO
I never sleep in pyjamas any more since I found out that pants work just fine. I wouldn't dream of sleeping in jeans, however, unless I had to.

The child was nude from the waist down.
 

An "extended vein" was noted on his neck.​

Page 8​


???​

Jugular Vein Distention: Symptoms and Causes


Cleveland Clinic
https://my.clevelandclinic.org › health › 23149-jugular-v...



May 29, 2022 — Jugular vein distention is the bulging of the major veins in your neck. It's a key symptom of heart failure and other heart and circulatory
it can also be caused by asphyxia per this site https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/medical-equipment/airway-management/articles/asphyxia-by-any-other-name-is-just-as-deadly-gVNxRzrB0na5B2RE/#:~:text=It's%20a%20specific%20sequelae%20of,spike%20in%20venous%20back%2Dpressure.

How does positional asphyxia differ from traumatic asphyxia? Simply, traumatic asphyxia is a cardiovascular phenomenon resulting from a sudden dramatic increase in intrathoracic pressure from severe compression of the chest. Blood is forced back through the venous system causing significant facial edema and jugular venous distention (JVD). It will lead to cyanosis of the upper extremities, head, and neck with petechiae (microvessel rupture) often being present. This type of asphyxia is most commonly seen during motor vehicle collisions (MVCs), industrial accidents, and farming accidents where there is a significant force being applied to the chest and usually very quickly. Think of someone's chest hitting the steering wheel or a tractor landing on a person's chest.
Podcast #202 - The Dangers of Positional Asphyxia from Restraints
 

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