NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #2

[Skigirl]

It might be less common, but it occurs. Look at the story above: two attractive 19-year-old girls go out for a night of fun. One gets furiously angry with the other and strangles her.

True, it has happened, it's just not a very likely thing to have happened here.

 

[CADwrest]

Interesting story below about a young woman who confessed to killing her friend after police saw what looked like the murder weapon --- her belt --- in a Facebook photo she posted of the two of them. I post this, in part, because it demonstrates that murderous resentment or anger can lurk beneath the surface of friendships between attractive 19- and 20-year-old females, something some here try to discount.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/world/canada-murder-belt-facebook-photo-trnd/index.html

That's not really why I discount it; obviously, if you google around enough, you're going to find a case that fits the facts of your chosen scenario (which would be true of pretty much any crime).

The reason I discount it is because:

1) It does tend to be very rare, as Skigirl said.

2) The rest of the facts of the case don't fit. In spontaneous rage killings, especially ones involving college students with no criminal history, it's usually very obvious they committed the crime, and their stories are all over the place. Take a look, for instance, at the Blaze Bernstein case:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ernstein-19-Lake-Forest-2-Jan-2018-7-*Arrest*

That's a case where one 19-20 year old killed another, apparently in spontaneous rage. He tried to cover it up. What happened? Something like this:

Perp: I left him in the park at 11PM and never saw him again.
Cops: Your phone records say you went back to the park at 4AM. Why did you do that?
Perp: Uh, I got worried and went looking for him?
Cops: Where did you go in the meantime?
Perp: My girlfriend's house.
Cops: What's her name? Where does she live?
Perp: Uh, I don't know either of those answers...
Cops: OK. Why are your hands all scratched up?
Perp: Uh, I'm in a fight club.
Cops: Why is there dirt under your nails?
Perp: Uh... I fell in a mud puddle.

In other words, they didn't plan it, they panic after the fact, their story doesn't make any sense, and it becomes immediately obvious they're lying. That guy got arrested in less than 2 weeks. In the case you cited, the girl actually confessed when confronted with evidence.

With KR, there's a bit of circumstantial evidence that seems suspicious only because it happened the night Faith died. Had that not been the case, it would totally make sense within the context of a rowdy night amongst college undergrads.

 

[CADwrest]

I did a little digging into that case that J.M. Bee linked to. It was interesting how all the recent news articles on the case focused so heavily on the fact that the selfie picture was what got her caught (she was wearing the belt- the murder weapon- in a picture with the victim, taken hours before the murder), but what really pointed the cops to her in the first place was a tip they got from someone she hysterically confessed to right after the crime. That person came forward, then police went back to her uncle (who'd originally given her an alibi), and then he caved. Only then did LE really start trying to link her to the crime, at which point they found the incriminating selfie.

As it relates to Faith/KR, I'd be interested in seeing what JM and MR said about KR's demeanor that morning (prior to finding Faith). If she were shaken and crying, I'd say there might be something to her involvement. If she were just acting relatively normally (even giving her allowances for the drama she was going through with BE), that more than anything else would indicate to me she had nothing to do with it.

 

[raiders444]

Hello Sleuths!

I stumbled across this interesting case while on Reddit's "unresolved mysteries" sub.
https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/07/lapd-lazurus-murder-mystery-killer

The jist is that a woman was murdered, the police of course botched the investigation by not following all viable leads, and it went cold. 23 years went by and a new team was assigned as part of a cold case initiative, and they wound up cracking the case using DNA and following a lead previously overlooked in the initial investigation.

Couple of interesting takeaways from the article:

1) Maybe new eyes are what are needed to crack Faith's case. I realize the current detectives are fairly new to this one themselves, but if we are the point of pleading with the public on an annual basis for more info, maybe the case should be handed to a new set of eyes.

2) Several of us including myself have made reference to "the DNA system" that LE uses. This article brought to light the name of that system - CODIS. I checked to make sure North Carolina participates and it seems they do. Here are a few links for the amateur CSI folk-
https://www.fbi.gov/services/laboratory/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet
http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/f3db25c6-77bc-44c1-a12a-f76d58e11d14/DU---CODIS-SOP-09.aspx

3) This murder was done by a female to a female. Not trying to stir the pot, as I know that it is the rarest of murder pairings, but just another example of how it can happen. The murderer in this case tried to stage the scene of the crime as a robbery gone awry. Perhaps faith's murderer(s) also staged her scene with the note and DNA? Never know

4) Finally, it's a small comfort knowing that even when all hope seems lost, there are still LE people out there who refresh cold cases from time to time. Faith's murderer(s) might feel like they have gotten away with this but it is only a matter of time before something or someone turns up an answer.

 

[CADwrest]

Hello Sleuths!

I stumbled across this interesting case while on Reddit's "unresolved mysteries" sub.
https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/07/lapd-lazurus-murder-mystery-killer

The jist is that a woman was murdered, the police of course botched the investigation by not following all viable leads, and it went cold. 23 years went by and a new team was assigned as part of a cold case initiative, and they wound up cracking the case using DNA and following a lead previously overlooked in the initial investigation.

Couple of interesting takeaways from the article:

1) Maybe new eyes are what are needed to crack Faith's case. I realize the current detectives are fairly new to this one themselves, but if we are the point of pleading with the public on an annual basis for more info, maybe the case should be handed to a new set of eyes.

2) Several of us including myself have made reference to "the DNA system" that LE uses. This article brought to light the name of that system - CODIS. I checked to make sure North Carolina participates and it seems they do. Here are a few links for the amateur CSI folk-
https://www.fbi.gov/services/laboratory/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet
http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/f3db25c6-77bc-44c1-a12a-f76d58e11d14/DU---CODIS-SOP-09.aspx

3) This murder was done by a female to a female. Not trying to stir the pot, as I know that it is the rarest of murder pairings, but just another example of how it can happen. The murderer in this case tried to stage the scene of the crime as a robbery gone awry. Perhaps faith's murderer(s) also staged her scene with the note and DNA? Never know

4) Finally, it's a small comfort knowing that even when all hope seems lost, there are still LE people out there who refresh cold cases from time to time. Faith's murderer(s) might feel like they have gotten away with this but it is only a matter of time before something or someone turns up an answer.

That was an interesting read, thanks! I'd never heard of that case before.

IMO, but in that case, the biggest problem was that the investigators had a huge blind spot, because the perp was a cop. It just got worse as the years went on and she gained more and more prominence. It doesn't seem like connecting her as a viable suspect was that much of a leap. The victim's father was practically begging them to investigate her.

I might be mistaken, but I believe that Faith's case has been handed off at least once already. I think that happened maybe in 2016, when Chief Blue had Lt. Lehew take over the case?

As to staging DNA- that's a thought we've explored here before. The main reason I don't think that's the case is because of the form the DNA is in. I can see a killer maybe picking up some stray hairs from somewhere to confuse the forensics, but getting semen from an unsuspecting person seems, um, harder. At very least, it would require a lot of premeditation.

I'd really like to know what the CHPD's theory of the case is at this point...

 

[raiders444]

That was an interesting read, thanks! I'd never heard of that case before.

IMO, but in that case, the biggest problem was that the investigators had a huge blind spot, because the perp was a cop. It just got worse as the years went on and she gained more and more prominence. It doesn't seem like connecting her as a viable suspect was that much of a leap. The victim's father was practically begging them to investigate her.

I might be mistaken, but I believe that Faith's case has been handed off at least once already. I think that happened maybe in 2016, when Chief Blue had Lt. Lehew take over the case?

As to staging DNA- that's a thought we've explored here before. The main reason I don't think that's the case is because of the form the DNA is in. I can see a killer maybe picking up some stray hairs from somewhere to confuse the forensics, but getting semen from an unsuspecting person seems, um, harder. At very least, it would require a lot of premeditation.

I'd really like to know what the CHPD's theory of the case is at this point...

I wonder if/when we will reach the point where the CHPD will just disclose everything out of desperation- the missing pages, the full autopsy,etc. I'd also LOVE to know if CHPD has a #1 suspect and has been following that person or persons every move for the last 5 years

 

[CADwrest]

I wonder if/when we will reach the point where the CHPD will just disclose everything out of desperation- the missing pages, the full autopsy,etc. I'd also LOVE to know if CHPD has a #1 suspect and has been following that person or persons every move for the last 5 years

One of the Gasparoli interviews mentioned that they had 10 suspects... let me see if I can find that.

Here it is: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/community/durham-news/dn-opinion/article95292287.html

(Incidentally, that's the same article that talks about Lehew taking over as head of investigations.)

It's interesting that they've never characterized any of the named individuals as suspects, yet they say there are as many as 10. I wonder how many of those are people we know about versus people we've never seen named.

Police departments do occasionally just throw everything out to the public, but I think that's more on the coldest of cold cases (ones that have been unsolved for decades, where the killer is almost certainly dead). I doubt they'll be doing that with this one any time soon. My personal opinion is that they're in a holding pattern, hoping someone gets arrested and there's a hit on the DNA.

I was wondering about the theory of the case because I'm curious if it's changed over the years. They immediately came out and said it wasn't random, but at that point, they probably thought ETJ was a slam dunk. Then they spent five years swabbing people who had less and less to do with Faith- in many cases, people who didn't know her at all. So I wonder if they still strongly believe it was a personal, non-random murder.

 

[Webthrush]

One of the Gasparoli interviews mentioned that they had 10 suspects... let me see if I can find that.

Here it is: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/community/durham-news/dn-opinion/article95292287.html

(Incidentally, that's the same article that talks about Lehew taking over as head of investigations.)

It's interesting that they've never characterized any of the named individuals as suspects, yet they say there are as many as 10. I wonder how many of those are people we know about versus people we've never seen named.

Police departments do occasionally just throw everything out to the public, but I think that's more on the coldest of cold cases (ones that have been unsolved for decades, where the killer is almost certainly dead). I doubt they'll be doing that with this one any time soon. My personal opinion is that they're in a holding pattern, hoping someone gets arrested and there's a hit on the DNA.

I was wondering about the theory of the case because I'm curious if it's changed over the years. They immediately came out and said it wasn't random, but at that point, they probably thought ETJ was a slam dunk. Then they spent five years swabbing people who had less and less to do with Faith- in many cases, people who didn't know her at all. So I wonder if they still strongly believe it was a personal, non-random murder.

Yeah, that “10” figure they threw out there always seemed odd to me, and found it hard to take seriously — was it just an unreal off-the-cuff number tossed out hoping to strike fear in someone’s mind, or, does it mainly include folks they think know more than they’ve told but don’t actually suspect of being the perp? From the documents released I don’t see how you come up with 10 suspects — are any or all of them Hispanic as the 20/20 episode argues for? (I don’t recall any Hispanic males in released documents though Karena and Marisol undoubtedly have Hispanic male friends/relatives.)
Have all 10 of these “suspects” been DNA-tested? How far-and-wide are they scattered? ...So many questions.

 

[CADwrest]

Yeah, that “10” figure they threw out there always seemed odd to me, and found it hard to take seriously — was it just an unreal off-the-cuff number tossed out hoping to strike fear in someone’s mind, or, does it mainly include folks they think know more than they’ve told but don’t actually suspect of being the perp? From the documents released I don’t see how you come up with 10 suspects — are any or all of them Hispanic as the 20/20 episode argues for? (I don’t recall any Hispanic males in released documents though Karena and Marisol undoubtedly have Hispanic male friends/relatives.)
Have all 10 of these “suspects” been DNA-tested? How far-and-wide are they scattered? ...So many questions.

This is pure, unadulterated speculation, but with the exception of ETJ, I don't think that LE considers any of the men described in the released documents as suspects, even unofficially. I think that's why they agreed to release those particular pages in the first place. So I think DB looking away from Faith's photo and having a conflicting story about who he rode with, RLJ refusing to speak to investigators, and JB's phone connecting to the cell tower are all things LE believes are dead ends.

 

[Webthrush]

This is pure, unadulterated speculation, but with the exception of ETJ, I don't think that LE considers any of the men described in the released documents as suspects, even unofficially. I think that's why they agreed to release those particular pages in the first place. So I think DB looking away from Faith's photo and having a conflicting story about who he rode with, RLJ refusing to speak to investigators, and JB's phone connecting to the cell tower are all things LE believes are dead ends.

I don’t know; I hear where you’re coming from, but they only released documents after a court ordered them to following a 2-year stonewalling of releasing anything — I still don’t know how the specific material released was selected (or withheld), but it’s hard for me to imagine that, at the same time they were begging the public for further assistance, they would deliberately release only docs that they knew would lead the public on wild goose chases/dead ends.

 

[youlostone]

I wonder if/when we will reach the point where the CHPD will just disclose everything out of desperation- the missing pages, the full autopsy,etc. I'd also LOVE to know if CHPD has a #1 suspect and has been following that person or persons every move for the last 5 years

I don't think they'll release anything else if they haven't by now. Mostly because they think it will ruin their ability to prosecute. I personally disagree given the massive amount of DNA evidence they supposedly have. But I'm no lawyer lol. I do believe they're surveilling people. I would hope so, anyway. I might be mistaken, but I thought there was an interview where CHPD at least suggested as much.

I'm hopeful there will be a match in CODIS one day.

 

[Skigirl]

This is pure, unadulterated speculation, but with the exception of ETJ, I don't think that LE considers any of the men described in the released documents as suspects, even unofficially. I think that's why they agreed to release those particular pages in the first place. So I think DB looking away from Faith's photo and having a conflicting story about who he rode with, RLJ refusing to speak to investigators, and JB's phone connecting to the cell tower are all things LE believes are dead ends.

I agree. I hope that they have something viable in the pages they withheld.

 

[Webthrush]

I don't think they'll release anything else if they haven't by now. Mostly because they think it will ruin their ability to prosecute. I personally disagree given the massive amount of DNA evidence they supposedly have. But I'm no lawyer lol. I do believe they're surveilling people. I would hope so, anyway. I might be mistaken, but I thought there was an interview where CHPD at least suggested as much.

I'm hopeful there will be a match in CODIS one day.

I tend to agree -- way back, after the 2-yr. release, I specifically asked an officer if there was going to be another document release and they said no... but that was years ago. The first release of course wasn't voluntary but only the result of the press taking the matter to court; wonder if there's any chance that could happen again, but perhaps no longer even enough press interest to mount a court action?

 

[youlostone]

I tend to agree -- way back, after the 2-yr. release, I specifically asked an officer if there was going to be another document release and they said no... but that was years ago. The first release of course wasn't voluntary but only the result of the press taking the matter to court; wonder if there's any chance that could happen again, but perhaps no longer even enough press interest to mount a court action?

It would surely take the press getting involved again and taking them back to court. If only...

 

[J.M. Bee]

According to the Wikipedia entry on this case, Faith and KR left Thrill at 2:06am and arrived home to their apartment around 3:00am. But the club was/is only ten minutes from the apartment. This raises a question: what took them so long to get home? Did they stop somewhere (for food, gas, etc.)? Does LE believe they stopped somewhere? If they didn't stop somewhere, what would explain the time window b/t their leaving Thrill and arriving home? This is important, obviously, because if they did stop somewhere, they might have encountered and interacted with the killer at that location.

 

[Simplestarz86]

According to the Wikipedia entry on this case, Faith and KR left Thrill at 2:06am and arrived home to their apartment around 3:00am. But the club was/is only ten minutes from the apartment. This raises a question: what took them so long to get home? Did they stop somewhere (for food, gas, etc.)? Does LE believe they stopped somewhere? If they didn't stop somewhere, what would explain the time window b/t their leaving Thrill and arriving home? This is important, obviously, because if they did stop somewhere, they might have encountered and interacted with the killer at that location.

For some reason I thought they stopped at TimeOut on the way home. In one of the crime scene pictures (someone posted awhile back. I haven't looked for it just going of memory) it showed an uneaten biscuit still wrapped in foil. I could be wrong. Also, if for some reason they stayed behind at the club...maybe a friend worked there or a boyfriend/girlfriend of a friend worked at Thrill. Maybe after the majority of folks left they went back in or hung around. Just because it showed them exiting the club doesn't mean there isn't more footage. As always, JMO.

ETA: clarify


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CADwrest]

I think the video of them exiting the club is time-stamped at 2:06AM, but I've seen 2:30AM reported as the time they actually left. I interpreted that to mean that they hung around outside the club for a while talking to people before getting in their car and leaving (they certainly don't seem in any big hurry in the video- they exit and literally stop right outside the door). Then 3AM is usually stated as the time they got home. It doesn't take 30 minutes to get from the Thrill to Hawthorne, more like 10, but since we've never been told they stopped anywhere, I just figured both 2:30 and 3 are approximations.

As to TimeOut, depending on what you read, they either stopped there that night, or the night before. There doesn't seem to be a clear answer on that one.

 

[youlostone]

I think the video of them exiting the club is time-stamped at 2:06AM, but I've seen 2:30AM reported as the time they actually left. I interpreted that to mean that they hung around outside the club for a while talking to people before getting in their car and leaving (they certainly don't seem in any big hurry in the video- they exit and literally stop right outside the door). Then 3AM is usually stated as the time they got home. It doesn't take 30 minutes to get from the Thrill to Hawthorne, more like 10, but since we've never been told they stopped anywhere, I just figured both 2:30 and 3 are approximations.

As to TimeOut, depending on what you read, they either stopped there that night, or the night before. There doesn't seem to be a clear answer on that one.

Yep. I agree. There's been conflicting reports about when the Time Out was bought. Pretty important detail, imo. I think it was in one of Gaspo's recent podcast interviews where he said they stopped at TimeOut but I just assumed he'd misspoken.

I'm thinking the timeline was probably: Walk out of the club at 2:06. Hang out for 10-15 minutes. 10 minute or so walk back to the car. Then 10 minute drive home. That's leaves about 30 minutes or so. Wasn't 3 am the time when someone logged into Faith's Facebook? That's probably what they based that 3 am timeline on. If I had to guess I'd say maybe they got in the house at 2:45. All speculation though.

 

[Webthrush]

Yep. I agree. There's been conflicting reports about when the Time Out was bought. Pretty important detail, imo. I think it was in one of Gaspo's recent podcast interviews where he said they stopped at TimeOut but I just assumed he'd misspoken.

I'm thinking the timeline was probably: Walk out of the club at 2:06. Hang out for 10-15 minutes. 10 minute or so walk back to the car. Then 10 minute drive home. That's leaves about 30 minutes or so. Wasn't 3 am the time when someone logged into Faith's Facebook? That's probably what they based that 3 am timeline on. If I had to guess I'd say maybe they got in the house at 2:45. All speculation though.

yeah, the 2:06 - 3 time gap is interesting, though depending on traffic and stoplights I think the drive home to their front door could easily take 15+ min., not just 10 (I live about the same distance to the former Hawthorn Apts. as the Thrill was, and drive that way ~once-a-week and think it takes me closer to 15 min.).

1) if girls hung out at Thrill parking lot for 10 mins. and/or stopped at Time Out (old location about 2 blocks from Thrill), and got home “by 3am” (maybe as early as 2:45) then all time is probably accounted for. But if Karena really felt badly would they have hung out or stopped for food… maybe… or maybe K didn’t feel bad, just used excuse to get away from someone in Club?

2) Seems logically possible they might stop at Time Out on way home (convenient) but I don’t recall any timeline shown in press (and there have been many) ever reporting a stop at Time Out before the drive home — I think it’s in one of the police interviews that they mention the Time-Out stop being the prior day, but if anyone can find links for either theory I’ve lost track by now.

3) the autopsy report mentions only “300 ml. of brown fluid and tan-brown food particles” found in the stomach, and I wonder if there wouldn’t have been more than that if Faith had eaten food that close to the crime?

4) side issue: fingernail scrapings were taken at the autopsy, but I’ve never seen a report on what was found (it would sure be good to know if DNA matching the other DNA samples was found, to put to rest the idea that perhaps DNA was somehow falsely planted at the crime scene).

 

[Skigirl]

I think the video of them exiting the club is time-stamped at 2:06AM, but I've seen 2:30AM reported as the time they actually left. I interpreted that to mean that they hung around outside the club for a while talking to people before getting in their car and leaving (they certainly don't seem in any big hurry in the video- they exit and literally stop right outside the door). Then 3AM is usually stated as the time they got home. It doesn't take 30 minutes to get from the Thrill to Hawthorne, more like 10, but since we've never been told they stopped anywhere, I just figured both 2:30 and 3 are approximations.

As to TimeOut, depending on what you read, they either stopped there that night, or the night before. There doesn't seem to be a clear answer on that one.

Agree that it seems they probably didn't go to their cars immediately, and didn't seem to be in a hurry, when leaving the club. They sort of sauntered out, and I could easily imagine them standing and engaging in conversation for 15-20 minutes. At that time of night, the trip from The Thrill to Hawthorne would have been really quick. I really wish we knew more about the Time-Out visit. I've always thought it wasn't impossible that someone at Time-Out could have been involved.