NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #2

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CADwrest said:
It's certainly possible, no doubt about that. I could see a scenario where two guys (brothers, frat brothers, teammates, whatever) go to the apartment not really intending to hurt anyone, and things got out of hand, etc. But that's a pretty ugly secret to keep. I do think the evidence shows, if it was two guys, that only one of them was mostly responsible, with the other just being along for the ride. I guess in that case, the "less guilty" one would clam up not only out of loyalty, but because he'd also be going to jail for a while too.

Part of the reason I think that's less likely (aside from the DNA) is the dynamics of a situation like that. If they're not blood related, post-college life might lead them in different directions, which tends to diminish even very close friendships, and keeping a horrible secret like this would only make it worse. IMO, they'd constantly be worried about what they other was thinking. "Is he going to make a deal and pin it on me?" etc.

Like I said, totally possible, but I just tend to think it isn't the case.
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Somewhat OT but interesting and wasn't sure if anyone had seen it.
http://m.newson6.com/story.aspx?story=37104476&catId=112042


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
CADwrest said:
It's certainly possible, no doubt about that. I could see a scenario where two guys (brothers, frat brothers, teammates, whatever) go to the apartment not really intending to hurt anyone, and things got out of hand, etc. But that's a pretty ugly secret to keep. I do think the evidence shows, if it was two guys, that only one of them was mostly responsible, with the other just being along for the ride. I guess in that case, the "less guilty" one would clam up not only out of loyalty, but because he'd also be going to jail for a while too.

Part of the reason I think that's less likely (aside from the DNA) is the dynamics of a situation like that. If they're not blood related, post-college life might lead them in different directions, which tends to diminish even very close friendships, and keeping a horrible secret like this would only make it worse. IMO, they'd constantly be worried about what they other was thinking. "Is he going to make a deal and pin it on me?" etc.

Like I said, totally possible, but I just tend to think it isn't the case.
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The fraternity/team thing is totally possible, just seems less likely to me given the sheer number of university-affiliated people who have given their DNA. Of course someone could have been missed, in which case this really probably is some six degrees of separation type of thing. Also probably would have to consider could it be someone from one of the other local universities.
 
Since things are slow, I’ll throw out a crazy thought if anyone has the time or inclination to pursue it:
Police have portrayed this as a sort of 1-off, personal crime against Faith, buuut what if in fact it is the work of a serial or repeat criminal (rapist or murderer) who happened to cross paths with Faith that night or week and learned her location…? What if this crime basically gives his M.O.; i.e. he goes to the apartment of a young female victim between the somewhat odd hours of say 5am and 7am in the morning (perhaps even Friday morning is pertinent) and violently assaults his victims (perhaps it being in a college town is pertinent as well? perhaps using whatever is handy to beat the victim, NOT a knife, gun, etc.? and perhaps we are looking specifically for Hispanic perps?)

Is there any reasonable way to carry out some sort of Google search, or database search, (or even Websleuths’ search) for crimes that meet that description in say the last 5 years — maybe starting out in the states, NC., South Carolina, and Virginia, and moving outward from there as needed? Or is that just too impractical or un-doable???
Any thoughts? (though possible, it's hard for me to believe whoever did this hasn't committed similar crimes.)

 
I don't think that's a crazy idea.

I did some preliminary Google searches, but I'm having trouble getting useful results. It's a mix of accidental deaths, very recent crimes, solved murders where the killer's been arrested (and DNA presumably taken), and unsolved murders where the MO is totally different.

In the latter category, I found a couple of unsolved murders of young women in the last ten years in the general area, but like I said, the MO is totally different, and I'd be very hesitant to infer any connection.
 
I've been going through this case for only the last few months and I've just finished listening to the 2-part podcast.

I also find this to be a setup when her friend says she doesn't feel well, yet she feels well enough to be picked up by her boyfriend or male friend to go to his house. And, on top of that, she leaves the damn door open as she left. I don't care what part of the world someone lives in--you cannot do this, especially nowadays.

It does make me wonder if a neighbor, passerby, or someone looking out of their window see this and took advantage of the situation? How do we know for a fact that her boyfriend did not go into the house or did he have any other friends/roommates that he lived with accompany him in the vehicle, etc.? Did they go into the house or did they return to the house, knowing the information that the door was open? Were all his roommates tested for DNA? Another part of me thinks that if Faith was the intended target, this probably was supposed to be a scare tactic that totally went out of hand. But, if her friend was the intended target, she probably realized that after the fact & does not want to talk about it out of guilt.

Is North Carolina a familial DNA state?

This whole thing stinks and makes me very angry because I feel that her and a select few others know what happened.
 
maxximillion said:
<snip>
.... Is North Carolina a familial DNA state? ...
<snip>
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No, the state has never run a familial DNA test for a criminal case (so far as I'm aware), but hasn't outlawed it (as I believe a couple of states have done). So, while not likely, I don't think it's completely out-of-question for this case.
 
maxximillion said:
<snipped>
I also find this to be a setup when her friend says she doesn't feel well, yet she feels well enough to be picked up by her boyfriend or male friend to go to his house. And, on top of that, she leaves the damn door open as she left. I don't care what part of the world someone lives in--you cannot do this, especially nowadays.

It does make me wonder if a neighbor, passerby, or someone looking out of their window see this and took advantage of the situation? How do we know for a fact that her boyfriend did not go into the house or did he have any other friends/roommates that he lived with accompany him in the vehicle, etc.? Did they go into the house or did they return to the house, knowing the information that the door was open? Were all his roommates tested for DNA? Another part of me thinks that if Faith was the intended target, this probably was supposed to be a scare tactic that totally went out of hand. But, if her friend was the intended target, she probably realized that after the fact & does not want to talk about it out of guilt. <snipped>
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The roommate, KR, did do a few objectively suspicious things. You mentioned leaving the door unlocked and going out again after saying she was sick, which are really the two biggest ones. The reason I discount her as a suspect is because A) most of the rest of her activities argue against her being angry at Faith (such as voluntarily spending the entire evening prior with her) and B) even the couple of suspicious ones have reasonable explanations. As to the door being unlocked, they shared a key. KR left it with Faith, so she couldn't have locked the deadbolt from the outside as she left. As for her going out (for a booty call, most likely) after saying she was sick, that's just Thursday night on campus. College students do stuff like that all the time. I did it at that age. Lots of us did.

Interesting thing about this case is that we know a decent amount about it, but what we do know can have a lot of interpretations. We know she was bludgeoned with a bottle, for instance, but we have no idea what the sequence of events were that led up to that. Was she attacked as she slept? Did she wake up, freak out, and was quickly attacked? Did she wake up, entertain her "guest" for a while with the bottles in the bedroom, and then something went terribly wrong? We simply don't know, and those apparently equally valid scenarios all point to a different kind of killer, and a different motive for the crime.
 
A few things: one, I too listened to the Twisted podcast interview of Gasparoli and while much of it covered old ground, there were two things that stood out to me: one was the massive number of people who have been swabbed by LE in this case (some 800); the other was the credence Gasparoli gives to the possibility that KR, not Faith, was the intended target. I will admit that I have not put much stock in this theory in the past, but listening to the Twisted discussion, I began to see how this might make sense. I forget precisely what the two of them said on this point, but I definitely think this theory (that KR was the intended target) might help to explain some of KR's behavior afterward / in the aftermath.

As for the issue of KR allegedly leaving the door unlocked, I continue to find the dismissals of this point unconvincing, and Gasparoli actually wrote or said something important on this point. Those who contend that it wouldn't be unusual for a college girl to deliberately leave her apartment door unlocked are asking us to overlook the fact that KR had recently obtained a restraining order on ETJ and that he had just recently tried to kick down their apartment door. While an ordinary college girl might leave her apartment door unlocked --- I still don't really buy this notion --- one in KR's circumstances would not.

Further, those who contend that KR left the door unlocked because she and Faith only had one key ignore the fact that a far (safer and) more logical arrangement would have been for Faith to keep the key, for them to lock the door as KR left, and for Faith to leave the door unlocked (or the key in a hiding place) in the morning if she happened to leave before KR arrived back to the apartment.

Thus KR's saying that she left the door unlocked remains problematic, in my opinion, and I have heard no one say anything here that makes me think otherwise.
 
Another thing: while I sort of gave up on the KR-did-it theory some time ago --- on account of the male DNA on the bottle and on Faith and the implausibility of KR somehow collaborating with this male --- I don't buy the explanation above that KR couldn't have experienced a murderous rage towards Faith that night. Yes, they were friends, but two attractive females are often competing for the same men, and this competition could easily produce not only jealousy and anger but worse. Why did they leave Thrill early that night? Because KR said she wasn't "feeling well". Well, given that she felt just fine a few hours later, there's a chance that the real problem at Thrill wasn't that KR wasn't feeling well but that KR didn't like how much smiling, positive attention Faith was receiving/giving from/to this or that male, maybe BE. This jealousy could have been the reason for her saying she wanted to go home, and if something occurred back home that further triggered this jealousy, KR could easily have erupted into a terrible rage.

However, as I say above, I find the male DNA on the bottle and on Faith too tall a hurdle for the KR theory.
 
J.M. Bee said:
Thus KR's saying that she left the door unlocked remains problematic, in my opinion, and I have heard no one say anything here that makes me think otherwise.
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OK, try a few of these.

1. KR may have been lulled into a false sense of security. Two months had passed without further incident, and she now had a roommate. She may have just let her guard down after a while. People do that, it’s natural.

2. Considering they’d shared a key for over a month, it’s highly unlikely that this was the very first time they’d gambled with the door like this, and getting away with it could have reinforced bad habits.

3. Taking the key and locking the door behind her would have left Faith unable to lock up. The vast majority of people chose to secure their dwellings when they aren’t home rather than when they are. This choice isn’t absurd or unbelievable.

4. KR may have thought about waking Faith up to have her lock the door after her, but decided to let her sleep. Understandable- what were the chances something would happen in the few hours she’d be gone? We point out the unlikelihood of it on here, there’s no reason she wouldn’t have thought the same thing.

5. KR may have actually discussed it with Faith before leaving. The key was left in the bedroom, per the search warrant. “I’m going with Jordan in a little while, but I’m leaving the key in here with you, so you’ll have to lock the door.” She may have even stuck her head in and said something to Faith as she left, only for Faith to acknowledge it but fall back asleep without locking the door.

I think any one of the above is far more plausible than “KR deliberately left it unlocked so the killer could get in” or “KR did it and said she left the door unlocked to provide a hypothetical killer a way of entering the apartment.”

Let’s just say, hypothetically, that KR left the door unlocked with malicious intent. She knew someone was coming for Faith and facilitated it. In that case, she could say she locked up, and Faith must have let whoever it was in. She could say she locked up and put the key under the mat, and the killer found it because that was an absurdly obvious hiding place (in fact, she could have just done this, instead of saying she did). She could say Faith walked her to the door and locked it after her. But why oh why would she come out and admit she just left the door unlocked? That’s literally the most suspicious thing she could possibly say.
 
CADwrest said:
Inaccuracies aside, I was more put off that a 58 page book about Faith Hedgepeth had a 30 page &#8220;bonus&#8221; section devoted to a completely different case...
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Some while back there was someone on Twitter soliciting for a person to write an eBook on the Hedgepeth case... I don't know if this offering is the result of that request or completely independent of it, but doesn't seem very worthwhile compared to all the info available freely online.
There's also a new recent YouTube podcast out on the case, but I won't bother linking to it, since it too has some inaccuracies and isn't as well-done as several of the other podcasts/videos already available for the crime.
 
CADwrest said:
Inaccuracies aside, I was more put off that a 58 page book about Faith Hedgepeth had a 30 page &#8220;bonus&#8221; section devoted to a completely different case...
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Yeah that was so strange. They should have just titled it differently.
 
Webthrush said:
Some while back there was someone on Twitter soliciting for a person to write an eBook on the Hedgepeth case... I don't know if this offering is the result of that request or completely independent of it, but doesn't seem very worthwhile compared to all the info available freely online.
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That's really bizarre. You say it was "solicited". Was it just someone saying "I wish someone would write a book about this case" or more of "job offer" kind of thing? I wonder what was behind that. It's weird.
 
CADwrest said:
That's really bizarre. You say it was "solicited". Was it just someone saying "I wish someone would write a book about this case" or more of "job offer" kind of thing? I wonder what was behind that. It's weird.
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Yes, it was more of a 'job offer' or assignment of some sort. (I presumed it was some sort of outfit that produces short, quickie eBooks on crime cases, but don't know for sure.)
 
While I still disagree with some of Cadwrest's contentions regarding the KR theory, I have read his/her defense of KR on "Here for Faith Hedgepeth" and I will admit he/she does a decent job of explaining away many of the things that lead some to suspect KR. He/she doesn't successfully explain away everything, IMO, but he/she does offer pretty good explanations for most things.

The problem is that this leaves us with a male culprit who:
(i) somehow entered the apartment between 4:30am and 8:00am
(ii) was not in their circle of friends
(iii) felt so offended by something Faith (or KR) said or did that he not only brutally bludgeoned Faith to death but left a note insulting her and defending himself

A few things to think about:
1. Did LE ever establish or make public an estimated time of death? I have never seen mention of this, but this would be a useful piece of information to have.
2. How did this male gain entrance to the apartment? Did Faith let him in or did he try the door and let himself in? If he knocked, awoke Faith and Faith let him in, who could this male be, given that Faith would have had to trust him enough to let him in at that odd hour, yet after swabbing 800 people this person has not been identified?
3. If he tried the door and let himself in --- i.e., he was a prowler, stalker type --- why would he leave such a personal note? What would have been the source for those strong personal feelings?

In a way, one might begin one's thinking with the note (rather than with other pieces of evidence).

I&#8217;m not stupid, B*tch. Jealous.

Who would write this? Someone who felt Faith (or KR) had called him stupid or had implied he was stupid. Someone who was murderously angry about this slight or perceived slight. Who would this be? A delivery guy they had been condescending towards? Someone in the complex they had laughed at in some way? I don't see a UNC student or law school student writing this, not to mention the fact that it looks like the 800 swabs have eliminated all such suspects.

This case really bothers me. Let's go, LE; you need to solve this.
 
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